Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Yes, you are getting a last generation video card in a premium priced computer. In the case of the $1,200 21.5" 9400 card, it's two generations old.

Is this the first gen 9400 or the revised chip? NVidia was supposed to be revising the 9400M for greater speed with Core2Duos. I forget when it is supposed to be released.
 
all these people in here bitching about lack of blu ray need to think. why dont you just go buy a blu ray player because i guarantee that 90% of people on here have an hdtv now and blu ray players cost next to nothing. and i dont know about you but i sure as hell wouldnt want to watch a full length movie while sitting at a desk. i myself would much rather watch it on something with much better sound (any tv) and while im sitting on a couch for petes sake
 
all these people in here bitching about lack of blu ray need to think. why dont you just go buy a blu ray player because i guarantee that 90% of people on here have an hdtv now and blu ray players cost next to nothing. and i dont know about you but i sure as hell wouldnt want to watch a full length movie while sitting at a desk. i myself would much rather watch it on something with much better sound (any tv) and while im sitting on a couch for petes sake

I don't have an HDTV.

That said, I don't give two ***** about BD.
 
exactly. anyone who doesnt have an hdtv obviously doesnt care about blu ray or they would have an hdtv by now.

I'd love an HDTV, but again, still don't care about the segway medium that is BD.

I dont have an HDTV because of money.
 
do you guys think there is a considerable difference between the i5 and the i7? because for what im doing (photography, graphic design, 3d modeling, animation) i feel like the i7 isnt going to show me much difference than an i5
 
I'd love an HDTV, but again, still don't care about the segway medium that is BD.

I dont have an HDTV because of money.

yea i got a 32" vizio about 2 years ago and even though it doesnt get 1080p and only gets 1080i, i really cant see much of a difference and i feel like the colors and blacks are much richer in it than the samsung that we have and for only $600. i notice a lot of flickering when intense whites are present in bd on the samsung. plus you can get vizios even cheaper now im sure so id definately recommend one when you get the money to afford an hdtv. theyre cost efficient and yield great results :)
 
yea i got a 32"vizio about 2 years ago and even though it doesnt get 1080p and only gets 1080i, i really cant see much of a difference and i feel like the colors and blacks are much richer in it than the samsung that we have. i notice a lot of flickering when intense whites are present in bd on the samsung

I'm waiting for the majority of broadcasts to be in HD before making the switch. SD looks like CRAP on an HDTV.
 
This post doesn't even make any sense.
laugh.gif

Really? I implore you to explain why. I am sure it was more convenient to dismiss my post as non-sensical than to actually digest what I was saying.
 
Yes noisy. I work with Optiplex 745 and 755s all day, and most recently Optiplex 960s. They are not at all noisy. They are actually pretty quiet, the 960s are very compact as well.

For reference, the 24" iMac we have runs quite hot and gets pretty loud with moderate use. But that doesn't mesh with your POV, so it must be wrong.

I am sure you will continue to add that one more thing that puts the iMac in this mythical class that cannot be compared. Give me a break. Absolutely pathetic.

You might as well just say:

"Oh yeah, find me an all-in-one computer made with aluminum and glass, comes with a laptop processor, has a not easily upgradable hard drive, with a 27" panel that only one manufacturer seems to have, oh yeah, and made by Apple."

Or Maybe I have a whole bunch of Dell Optiplex 760 machines at my business as well as Macs. I also have zero trouble with the Macs and am working on the Dell machines regularly. As a matter of fact one of the machines has been down with a dead DVD-ROM drive for over two weeks with no follow up from Dell technical support after opening a ticket with them.

But continue to compare elegant all-in-one machines to hulking legacy towers and feel vindicated with your boorish behavior and remarks.

It also might interest you to know that I've built and/or owned over 200 computers over the past 15 years, and hold an MCSE, but I must be prejudiced against everyone but Apple, right? :rolleyes:
 
I'm waiting for the majority of broadcasts to be in HD before making the switch. SD looks like CRAP on an HDTV.

it really does. on my samsung if i ever watch something in sd it looks like it is rolling up the screen. its odd but ive learned to live with it. but for the most part i still use my giant tube tv in my basement. that being said, im still going to buy one of the quad core models probably the i5 because thats already too much money to spend let alone the $200 extra for an i7. not thank you apple, no thank you
 
178° viewing angle, "IPS panel" and fairly cheap price for everything together.. sounds like E-IPS to me?
 
Or Maybe I have a whole bunch of Dell Optiplex 760 machines at my business as well as Macs. I also have zero trouble with the Macs and am working on the Dell machines regularly. As a matter of fact one of the machines has been down with a dead DVD-ROM drive for over two weeks with no follow up from Dell technical support after opening a ticket with them.

But continue to compare elegant all-in-one machines to hulking legacy towers and feel vindicated with your boorish behavior and remarks.

It also might interest you to know that I've built and/or owned over 200 computers over the past 15 years, and hold an MCSE, but I must be prejudiced against everyone but Apple, right? :rolleyes:

All of this is anecdotal. That is exactly the point here. He has problems, she doesn't. The fact is nothing is any worse than anything else (except maybe eMachines).

Yet you have no problem bashing anything that isn't forged in Steve Job's [insert location of your choice here].

In terms of Dell support. We get parts next day. We get similar service from Apple. We have certified people in our office though, so maybe that is the difference.

I must say I enjoy your attacks when I am seemingly doing nothing different than you. Well, I am not praising Apple in as overtly as yourself. That must be why I am "boorish."

The assumptions you make are laughable as well. How do you know I feel vindicated? I don't buy Dell computers. I did buy a Mac Pro. So maybe I am defending hulking legacy towers, but wait, that is made by Apple so it is ok. Never mind.

It may interest you to know that:
  • I am the primary Mac support technician in my Office.
  • I fight tooth and nail at my job to improve our Mac support in a predominately Dell environment.
  • I only have Macs in my house (UB Macbook CE, Mac Pro, Macbook Air, two Mac Minis, and some random G4 parts that would make a whole computer if I had a case).
  • One Mac Mini is running OS X Server providing a bevy of services.
  • They get their internet from my Airport Extreme (I do have some DLink switches, sorry).
  • Our communications are provided by iPhone 3G's.
  • I just bought two of the new Nanos.
  • Just today I bought the new mouse and a new AEBS (I was craving dual band).
  • Oh and I am working on my ACSA, with the hopes to open my own Mac shop/consulting business.

So I must be a Big, Loud Dell tower loving fanboy, right? I guess to truly prove this I must own an iMac.
 
I would like to see a matte display iMac also, but don't dismiss the cost of a 27" LED backlit screen. It is well over $1000 to buy something inferior right now for a PC.

Maybe you should take the red-rage glasses off for a while and realize that Apple has done a pretty good job of gauging the market.

Don't you mean gouging the market? Seeing as how Apple charges, on average, double the price for the same specs?

Like I said before, Apple uses edge-lit LED LCD screens. They offer no visual improvement over CCFL lit screens other than instant on. My 24" CCFL lit screen is 16x9, HDMI, DVI, and VGA inputs, 2ms response time, higher color gamut than Apple displays, 50,000:1 contrast ratio, higher rated brightness, etc. that cost only $250 and it takes not even 10 seconds to reach full brightness.

And, for what it's worth, I get more "work" done on my 24" iMac with a Radeon 4850 than I got done on my previous three Windows workstations, the last of which was pretty pimped out.

Good for you. My MacBook is worthless when it comes to "real work" so I still have to rely on Windows.

One, 'Core i7' is a marketing line of processor, not a specific one. Second, only by Intel's revisionist branding has it been out for a year. They didn't come up with 'Core i7' till this spring. The Turbo/Has builtin memory controller 'Core i7' CPUs have only just come out. That's why Apple isn't shipping these until November.

The older, run WAY hotter, stuff that also has the 'Core i7' branding ... wouldn't work in an iMac.

Those older Core i7 CPUs are every bit as fast as the current ones, and that year old "Extreme" Core i7 is still the fastest one out of all of them and marketed as such.

So my point stands, Core i7 has been available for PCs for a year now.

Core 2 Quad has been standard in desktop PCs for even longer.

Same design constraints and part quality (e.g., IPS panels ) ? Really?

Part quality? With a Mac? Are you serious? They use the same parts that are in OEM PCs. In some cases, they use lower quality parts like Panasonic DVD drives that like to drop dead for no reason other than the fact that they can die.

Design? I'm sorry, but the iMacs are ugly. On top of that, FUNCTIONALITY is far more important than form. A regular desktop tower that is out of sight is far more functional, upgradeable, and all around useful than something that is the equivalent of last year's laptops built-in to a mirror.

Home Premium and greater should have the MPEG-2 license for DVD playback.

Blu-ray still needs third party software

So? When you buy an OEM system with a blu-ray reader it ships with blu-ray software.

Plus, as I described before, Windows has the built-in framework for blu-ray playback in the form of DXVA/bitstream decoding, something OS X still doesn't do.

The part you don't get is that those high profits allow Apple to continue to innovate in exciting ways, doing things such as unibody construction on computers when noone else is. Having more market power to buy higher quality components for their machines at reasonable prices, etc.

What innovation has Apple done?

The unibody? Sorry, its too limited compared to competing PCs.

Apple doesn't have standard features like quad core on higher end notebooks, good GPUs, HDMI, multi-card readers, full size ExpressCard, etc.

The only "innovation" they've done is to limit user serviceable parts and removing of features.

I hope you know that glass LED backlit screens were around for a loooong time before Apple started using them.

If you think other vendors offer you better value then as previously suggested buy the competitor box, or, build a Hackentosh and deal with all the problems that entails.

And what problems would I have with a PC? Please don't say anything about drivers or viruses, because those sorts of things haven't been an issue since Windows 95 and those arguments haven't been valid since then.

No but really I just don't care wether it has blu ray or not. For me and I think a decent amount of people don't have a need for it.

Streaming movies is the way to go. I understand that is not for everyone.

Streaming movies are so far behind blu-ray its not even funny. The quality is just light years behind blu-ray. Lower bitrates, lower audio quality, lower resolutions..

a 21.5" iMac with an ATI Radeon HD 4670 256MB.

Still not enough power to drive games at native resolution.

Apple is right to avoid BR. The days of polycarbonate are numbered (just as the days of vinyl were in the early 90s). The future is screaming "STREAMING!".

Wake me up when streaming is as good as blu-ray. That means 1080p, 20-45Mbps video, lossless or uncompressed audio.

I'd love an HDTV, but again, still don't care about the segway medium that is BD.

I dont have an HDTV because of money.

Again, blu-ray is more successful now than DVD was at the same point in its life span and its adoption rate is actually increasing in speed. It will reach 51% market share faster than DVD did.

I'm waiting for the majority of broadcasts to be in HD before making the switch. SD looks like CRAP on an HDTV.

Dish Network offers "Turbo HD", about 50-60 channels all high def. The majority of content is in high definition.

I have DirecTV now. Every channel I watch is in high definition and every TV program I watch, unless I can't sleep in the middle of the night and end up watching Married with Children reruns at 3am, is in high definition.

If you stick with cable then you're stuck watching SD programming everywhere. But if you get Dish, DirecTV, U-Verse, or FiOS, you're good to go and nearly everything is HD.
 
Those older Core i7 CPUs are every bit as fast as the current ones, and that year old "Extreme" Core i7 is still the fastest one out of all of them and marketed as such.

So my point stands, Core i7 has been available for PCs for a year now.

Core 2 Quad has been standard in desktop PCs for even longer.
I don't know why some users are trying to differentiate the Bloomfield and Lynnfield core and cache. They're the same but the platforms they service are different.

Core 2 Quad is ancient now but Intel hasn't found a need to price it against Nehalem according to performance. Core 2 is still priced against Core 2. Then again it has been that was since Bloomfield launched. Take a look at the Q9650 today. :eek:


So? When you buy an OEM system with a blu-ray reader it ships with blu-ray software.

Plus, as I described before, Windows has the built-in framework for blu-ray playback in the form of DXVA/bitstream decoding, something OS X still doesn't do.
I was only pointing it out to another user for clarification. We went over the lack of built-in Blu-ray playback in Windows 7 a month or two ago. (Yes, you and me)

MPEG-2 is necessary for Windows Media Center, DVD Maker, and as a nice extra DVD playback. Not that you can't do DVD playback with other software.

We all know about the hardware acceleration support in Windows.
 
I don't know why some users are trying to differentiate the Bloomfield and Lynnfield core and cache. They're the same but the platforms they service are different.

Core 2 Quad is ancient now but Intel hasn't found a need to price it against Nehalem according to performance. Core 2 is still priced against Core 2. Then again it has been that was since Bloomfield launched. Take a look at the Q9650 today. :eek:


I was only pointing it out to another user for clarification. We went over the lack of built-in Blu-ray playback in Windows 7 a month or two ago. (Yes, you and me)

MPEG-2 is necessary for Windows Media Center, DVD Maker, and as a nice extra DVD playback. Not that you can't do DVD playback with other software.

We all know about the hardware acceleration support in Windows.

Eidorian I'm surprised you forgot or don't know that Windows 7 now natively supports H.264 mpeg-4 HD video also.
 
And what problems would I have with a PC? Please don't say anything about drivers or viruses, because those sorts of things haven't been an issue since Windows 95 and those arguments haven't been valid since then.

Repeating this (multiple times) in every thread does not make it so. In fact you are flat out wrong.

Windows computers continue to remain vulnerable to viruses, worms, trojans as well as the typical user stupidity that affects every other operating system on the planet.

The corporation I work for spends over $10M a year on computer defenses, but I suppose we do that because we are completely populated with idiots?

I spend over $1000 a year on network and PC security, specifically to deal with Windows vulnerabilities at the small business that I own with my wife.

You just need to face reality here. PCs are in fact more vulnerable than Macs due to the extremely weak underpinnings of Windows. OS X is built on a BSD base and is inherently more secure.

Even the geniuses at the Pentagon know this is a fact which is why they are diversifying the armed forces and defense department networks with OS X as they have been demonstrated to be more robust in resisting cybernetic attack.

Please stick your head back in the sand though and convince yourself that parroting something 100's of times makes it true.
 
Eidorian I'm surprised you forgot or don't know that Windows 7 now natively supports H.264 mpeg-4 HD video also.
I knew? I was going to type it but I didn't feel it was relevant at the time.

Seriously, I'm too lazy to take care of that 1% fact because most people just don't know. However you do know. :p
 
All of this is anecdotal. That is exactly the point here. He has problems, she doesn't. The fact is nothing is any worse than anything else (except maybe eMachines).

Yet you have no problem bashing anything that isn't forged in Steve Job's [insert location of your choice here].

In terms of Dell support. We get parts next day. We get similar service from Apple. We have certified people in our office though, so maybe that is the difference.

I must say I enjoy your attacks when I am seemingly doing nothing different than you. Well, I am not praising Apple in as overtly as yourself. That must be why I am "boorish."

The assumptions you make are laughable as well. How do you know I feel vindicated? I don't buy Dell computers. I did buy a Mac Pro. So maybe I am defending hulking legacy towers, but wait, that is made by Apple so it is ok. Never mind.

It may interest you to know that:
  • I am the primary Mac support technician in my Office.
  • I fight tooth and nail at my job to improve our Mac support in a predominately Dell environment.
  • I only have Macs in my house (UB Macbook CE, Mac Pro, Macbook Air, two Mac Minis, and some random G4 parts that would make a whole computer if I had a case).
  • One Mac Mini is running OS X Server providing a bevy of services.
  • They get their internet from my Airport Extreme (I do have some DLink switches, sorry).
  • Our communications are provided by iPhone 3G's.
  • I just bought two of the new Nanos.
  • Just today I bought the new mouse and a new AEBS (I was craving dual band).
  • Oh and I am working on my ACSA, with the hopes to open my own Mac shop/consulting business.

So I must be a Big, Loud Dell tower loving fanboy, right? I guess to truly prove this I must own an iMac.

Maybe you should review my post history and see how much I'm "in love with" Apple as they get as much criticism from me as praise.

Apple has plenty of problems and their products are expensive. However, they continue to innovate in the dreary desktop market space in ways that other manufacturers don't, which is one of the reasons they keep posting record bursting quarters.

The #1 thing to love about Apple right now is OS X. Having worked with Windows for almost two decades (since the Windows for Workgroup days) and having worked with OS X now for about a year, there is simply no comparison. OS X beats the **** out of Windows (even Windows 7) and makes it scream for mercy.

Yes, that's my opinion, but I would say that my opinion is probably more valid than that of quite a few of the posers on this forum.

On the specific issue of the new iMacs. Yes, I think that they are outstanding although I really wish they threw in a better graphics card choice, blu-ray support and an SSD option. Maybe 2 out of 3 of those show up in April at the next refresh.
 
Don't you mean gouging the market? Seeing as how Apple charges, on average, double the price for the same specs?

This is obvious. If you want the highest performing computer for the cheapest price build your own box.

Core 2 Quad has been standard in desktop PCs for even longer.
You're unfairly comparing towers with an all-in-ones.

Design? I'm sorry, but the iMacs are ugly. On top of that, FUNCTIONALITY is far more important than form. A regular desktop tower that is out of sight is far more functional, upgradeable, and all around useful than something that is the equivalent of last year's laptops built-in to a mirror.
Are you out of your mind? Last year's laptops were nothing compared to this. Unless you consider an 8 pound luggable a "laptop". Even then, where were all those mobile Core i7 processors last year?

And I'm not really sure how you can call them ugly. If the design was any more minimalist there wouldn't be a screen. Honestly, I'd love to see the great looking PCs you are comparing this to.

Plus, as I described before, Windows has the built-in framework for blu-ray playback in the form of DXVA/bitstream decoding, something OS X still doesn't do.
If Apple was selling Bluray drives in their computers, OS X would have the software for it.

What innovation has Apple done?

The unibody? Sorry, its too limited compared to competing PCs.

Apple doesn't have standard features like quad core on higher end notebooks, good GPUs, HDMI, multi-card readers, full size ExpressCard, etc.
Ugh, please. If you want some laptop with quad-core, sli, dual harddrives, three display connectors, etc., then just go and get a ThinkPad W700 or whatever Alienware is pushing these days. You have people bitching about how hot their Macs get, and then you have people bitching that they aren't nearly as fast as a workstation.

The only "innovation" they've done is to limit user serviceable parts and removing of features.
Have you ever tried to take apart the previous generation aluminum MacBook Pros (and PowerBooks?). Or even upgrade the harddrive? It's a nightmare. The Unibody is far easier to service. You may disagree with non-removable batteries for the benefit of battery life, but that's a valid trade off, not some conspiracy in the name of design to make your life miserable.


And what problems would I have with a PC? Please don't say anything about drivers or viruses, because those sorts of things haven't been an issue since Windows 95 and those arguments haven't been valid since then.
Bull****. Want an example? Last year I did a clean install on a ThinkPad tablet (don't even get me started on the 30 extra processes Lenovo adds to the default boot in XP), and Lenovo literally did *not* have the sound drivers for the laptop on their website. I had to go hunting around on the web for someone who had the drivers. That's unexcusable.

Wake me up when streaming is as good as blu-ray. That means 1080p, 20-45Mbps video, lossless or uncompressed audio.
Eventually it will happen. Even now on my horrible internet connection, I can stream moderate quality HD video from Netflix.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.