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Fast enough for Ableton live and other music apps?

I've been waiting for a new 13" model only about a month now so no 6 month nailbiting for me. I currently own a desktop AMD 3800+ X2 (ancient) with 1024mb DDR 400mhz ram. I think the basemodel will do great for me, ok it's not an i5 processor but do I really need a 15" model which costs €550 ($750) more only to surf the internet watch an occasional movie and work with Ableton live and other music apps?
The €550 will buy me a very decent 24" screen on the side also with money to spare.
 
Do you really need the few more Megahertz that badly? How about these 10 HOURS battery life, twice the graphics memory (twice the RAM on the base bodel)?

The things I like about my 2009 13" MBP (the current model up until yesterday) is the backit keyboard, the never-sticky and large trackpad, the LED lit screen, loudspeaker volume, long battery life and the looks and feel of it. I rarely max out the CPU (except when browsing some bad website with flash or in Logic Studio) and like how small and light the thing is and the fact that I don't need to panic if I forgot the power adapter at home so much.

absolutey true.. however, I do believe if the 13'' would be so much more attractive if it comes with at least an i3 rather than the core2duo despite the fact of the price cut!! It simply position the 13'' as a bargain deal instead of a proper update
 
Not true. I use my 13" for CS4 (and soon CS5), Logic Pro / MainStage, and in a pinch Aperture ("pinch" only from the display not being the best).

And, there are tens, maybe hundreds like me out there !!! :eek:
Read my post again. I said most 13" MBP users would never use the specs. I said "it doesn't mean you won't use the power but most won't"
I'm wondering why they still don't offer the standard res screen with the $50 Antiglare option. This is going to upset many "average" customers that didn't mind spending the extra $50 for the Antiglare. Now they're told they have to spend $150 for it? And it has to be high res? I say bring back the standard Antiglare option.

We get it Apple, you hate Antiglare screens, but face that facts, more customers than you are willing to acknowledge prefer the matte finish. Pros hate glossy and most people over 30 or 40 hate glossy. We're tired of you playing your little dictatorship game when it comes to this issue. It's time you got over yourselves.
This is a prefect example of why Apple will never satisfy everyone. They upgraded the display to 1680x1050, and people are saying that's still too low, and that they should be 1920x1080. Now you are saying the resolution is too high? Really?

would it kill them to throw a new processor into the 13 inch? of course, cause it's the most popular laptop, and they wouldn't want to put a new processor into the most popular laptop and give people ANOTHER reason to buy the cheapest one.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love for an arrandale chip to be there, but is there space in there for a larger battery for the dedicated graphics card it would need? Is there even space for the card itself without a larger battery?
4U6FOVHCT4JwTMvX.huge

just because you drink the apple kool-aid for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and have the logo tattooed to a body part normally hidden by clothing DOESN'T mean you get to tell others who expect more to shut up. at one time, before corporations became the objects of religious worship, vendors actually responded to customer demand. today, it's the other way around, with some companies tossing scraps to their loyal customers and telling them that they're lucky to get that.

yes, these updates are disappointing. they are simply after thoughts, with apple throwing its customers a bone because they HAD to, in order to keep even the slightest bit competative. so what's not to like? no usb3; no esata; no blu ray (even as an option for crimeny's sake); no ssd's standard; and most importantly, no core i5 on the 13 inch models. you can't really call your products revolutionary, advanced, or magical when they lack features that 90% of your competitors have at the same price point. and given that i can obtain a version of snow leopard that doesn't require genuine apple hardware, you can't even say the os is the defining feature.

now, why is this happening? for different reasons, but it all boils down to where steve jobs wants to position the company, namely as an american Sony, a purveyor of mobile consumer electronics such as mp3 players, phones, tv set top boxes and tablets. and why does mr jobs like these devices so much? because he can make them completely closed environments where even the software you run has to be approved by and purchased through Apple. and i'm sure if jobs could figure out a way to turn back the clock on desktops and laptops, he'd find a way to close up those boxes too. and if there weren't enough evidence of this already given the anemic specs on offer, the dreadful state of bugginess of os x 10.6 upon release and the fact that resources for os x 10.7 are now being cannibalized in favor of iphone os 4 should pretty much complete the picture. apple just isn't that much into to its desktop and laptop offerings anymore, and it shows. apple changed its corporate name from apple computer, inc. to apple,. inc. for a reason. all these updates do is underline the fact and put an exclamation mark at the end of the statement.
1) Look at my post history, I'm hardly an Apple cultist.
2)Don't get me wrong, I'd love an Arrandale to be here, but there isn't space on the 13"' board for a dedicated GPU. And even if there was, it has a much smaller battery than the 15" and 17", so battery life would decrease. If they put i5 in there, they would probably need to take out the optical drive, and then more people would complain. And lets be honest, most (not all) people using the 13" MBP, don't need more power. Most people buying 13" MBPs are students and/or people who know nothing about computers and what's inside of them. I'm not saying that's an excuse to stay with C2D's, but look at the options. A)They somehow redesign the board for a dedicated GPU to fit; battery life goes down. B) They don't have a dedicated GPU at all; battery life goes through the roof, but the Intel graphics bring down the performance so bad that even the computer illiterate would notice, and YOU would be complaining that there is not dedicated GPU in the 13" MBP. C) They give it a higher clocked C2D and a much better GPU, along with better battery life.
D) No significant update (like maybe they would put a 250gig HDD standard and up the RAM) They chose C. And it's probably the best compromise for now. Because your getting higher performance for the people who want it (and people who want/need the higher performance are a very small percentage of 13" MBP buyers) while retaining battery life. What do you think Suzy the college student would rather have, a notebook she would write her essays on and use facebook for that has 10 hours of battery, or 3? Just because the 13" MBP has "pro" in it, doesn't mean its a professional machine. It's the sad truth, but it's true. It's a name that makes people feel better. I believe losing out on a small performance gain in the CPU is better than having low battery life.

3) eSata: that would be nice, I agree, but not all of it's competition has eSata, either.
4)USB3: Yeah, I'll admit that was a little disappointing.
5) Blu-ray, fine I'll give you that, because I wanted blu-ray on Macs
6) No SSD's standard: What? Why the hell would that be standard? Then all the prices would go up for everyone, including those that don't want them yet. If you want an SSD, they have them in BTO, not that big of a deal.
7) 10.6 has been rock solid since 10.6.2 for me, and most people.
8) Yeah while Apple might care more about those devices at this point, they're accessories. You need a computer to use them. If they stop their development for computers then people won't buy Macs and thus they either A)can't buy those accessories or B) Will buy a PC instead, and i doubt Apple wants that
 
Total fail. No anti-glare option on the 15" without their stupid "hi-res" screen (which is an extra $150)? NOBODY WANTS GLOSSY SCREENS!! "Hi-res" screens in 15" make things way too tiny to read.

Horrible update. Total and complete failure on Apple's part.
 
i've been following tech for almost 20 years and i can't remember the last time a new computer product cost more than the last generation it replaced. Apple innovated again.

The base model 15" MBP costs $100 more than the previous model, but that is because the base model now has both integrated and dedicated graphics. The previous base model 15" was integrated graphics only.

Not sure what's confusing about this.
 
GeForce GT 330M is not my thing

It is like the worst macbook update. 13 inch having Core 2 Duo. Jesus, what the hell?
Would a better GPU improve the quality (i.e., content) of your posts i wonder?



Nope. This version is just a dual core CPU with HyperThreading, it does not have four real cores.

And that makes those updates very disappointing. After all, those are supposedly high-end machines.
Yeah... because we want a hotter chip to burn our legs and wear out the battery faster. We're soooo verrrry disappointed about that.



This is nothing less than a bad joke on Apples part.

They must really be wanting to kill off their laptop line.
Care to place a wager? [hint: you lose.]



WOW!
13" Macbook Pro BOUGHT!!!
4GB and i5 in a 13" model for 1199? SOLD.
Fantastic update and was more than I was hoping for.

The 13" MBP is C2D, not Core i5. You got hosed.
Congratulations, you're the 100th person to catch his mistake. Unfortunately... since the 2 hour mark has already passed, you didn't qualify to win the prize. :( [pro tip: folks, when you spot an obvious error on page one of a thirty-page thread... you can bet it's been dealt with a dozen times already, ad nauseam.]



not expected a mobile nuclear power plant, or a oLed screen. But at least a bluray, and 1080p to 15" line, weak update. :apple::cool:
Yeah, no "bag of hurt" in the new MBPs. Took everyone by surprise that did. Quite the shock.



Now if only MacRumors followed Robert's Rules of Order, I would so motion to close debate on this already. More than 30 pages of comments seems a little excessive.
After a 7-part record-breaking thread totaling some 40,000 (80,000?) posts in the "Waiting for Arrandale" series... this thread heralding its long-awaited arrival should shut down after 30 pages? Good luck with that. [no doubt this will expand into other threads once folks get the item in their hands and the reviews start pouring in.]



Let me explain some basic economics to you.
Back when all their screens were non-glossy, *all* laptop screens were non-glossy. Then the various win-box manufacturers started using glossy screens and promoting how vivid they were, and how much better the contrast was. Somewhere around here, glossy screens became a BTO option on MacBooks (around $50-$100 as I recall, depending upon exactly when).

Over time, the display manufacturers switched more and more of their production lines over to the glossy displays. As this progressed, glossy screens became more and more common until people were complaining that you had to pay extra for a glossy screen on Macs. At some point, the glossy screens became the default option everywhere (at which point people started to complain that they couldn't get a non-glossy screen on Macs, go figure). At this point, there is so little demand for non-glossy screens, and correspondingly little supply, so the prices have gone up because they're essentially considered a 'specialty' item. There's just barely enough demand for non-glossy screens to justify making them any more, and not nearly enough to make the same savings on production scale that they used to.

That's why a non-glossy screen is more expensive now, even though a glossy screen *used* to be more expensive.

(But then, I suppose you were just complaining for the sake of being heard to whine, so I don't expect you to actually listen.)
Excellent post. Should be a sticky somewhere. [plus: most users who prefer glossy (like me) have enough sense to tilt the screen and position the unit so that reflections are zip.]




For work, I run Win 7 Enterprise [same as ultimate really] (64 bit) on a Dell Optiplex 755. Intel Core Duo 2.33 (dual core) with 4.00 gb ram (only 3.87 is usable). Has a 150gb hard drive with a raid 1.

My backups won't work (totally filed up a 1 tb drive in 2 days), I have occassional lock ups, CPU goes to 100% when only running office and the virus scanner kicks is. I barely have anything installed and shut down the virtual PC's when not in use (hogs a way to much resources).

For Home (and sometimes work when the Dell acts up) I use a 2008 white macbook 2.4 ghz with 2gb of ram. my fans ever rarely kick in, now that I removed parallels and Windows, performs like brand new. I have a way lot more and use a way lot more simultaneously on my macbook than I do on Windows. Not a problem in 2 years.

I also own a Lenovo X61T Tablet with Vista Home Premium. 1.83 ghz with 3 gb ram - slow as molasses, a lot slower than my Dell XPS 1.83 ghz with 2gb ram that died 2 years ago (just after the warrenty ran out - internally cracked display, could not even buy a replacement for it; Dell could not find one).

Personally I think Apple is designed in a way that you really get your money's worth in terms of lifespan and overall usage. Yeah, I thought the same when I switched to Apple (expensive and you have to get used to a new OS). Well, in terms of usage, I have gotten more use and am a lot happier with my macbook. an upgrade would be nice, but now that I cleaned off windows, parallels, etc. My machine runs like new and I gained 115gb on the hard drive.

I also ran into someone at Starbucks the other day. He is still using is 2005 Powerbook for most stuff. He was not thinking of upgrading for another year.

Yeah, I talk to a lot of Windows and Apple users when I am out and about. Most that said they tried or switched to Apple would not go back. Also, the lack of blu-ray really did not concern them much. They had Windows PC's with blu-ray and found that they ran into a couple issues with rendering blu-ray movies that would not play on a blu-ray player. And also they ran into trouble trying to use the full storage capability (underwrite errors). Blu-ray may not be there yet. Also here in NC, there are still only 1 or 2 blu-ray players on display at any given time in the stores, and very few blu-ray movies out.

From what I am hearing, while the quality may be better for blu-ray, they still can't justify the costs. Also, tell me why when I go into a store, there are no internal or external blu-ray drives? Most are still CD-RW or DVD-RW D/L +- or multi-format; non support blu-ray. Also a lot of computer makers, blu-ray is BTO option, and not standard on a lot of PC's.

So when the rest of the world adopts blu-ray as mainstream; then I will complain about the lack of blu-ray on Apple computers.

Same with USB 3.0 and Wireless N - None are 100% mainstream yet.
Another great post... with a balanced perspective.

--

Not every computer need be designed for a 16-year-old with an inferiority complex.
 
A little disappointing. I didn't realise that the mobile i7 was only dual core.

There is a mobile i7 that is quad core but it has a higher TDP that probably makes it unsuitable for the MBP chassis (not to mention heat and battery life concerns). You can find it in larger and heavier workstation and gaming laptops if you do absolutely need a quad core though.
 
I am not sure where you observed this. If anything, there is more telecommute nowadays.

I also telecommute. Most telecommuters are logging on through a VPN and connecting to a company's server. I have seen companies implement Citrix, RDP , or PC Anywhere - there your PC is not doing the share power, rather the server or PC you are connected to is performing most the processing.

Truthfully, all I run on my work computer is MS Office, a few small apps for checking file integrity, a few small virtual PC's (only running 256 to 512 mb ram) - so I can connect to more than one VPN at a time if needed. Everything else is done through remote desktop, citrix, terminal services, or PCA on a server.

Heck, if it was not for the VPC's and needing multiple VPN's - I could do all my work on an ipad. Just log in remotely to somewhere.

Even telecommuting, very little is actually run on your PC if setup properly (ie not a real cloud, but close to a cloud). Not like the old days of do everything your PC and then upload files and download new files and do everything on your PC.

With the computing shift, it seems I need less and less powerful computers. In fact if the screen was not so small, I could just use my iphone. I did it one day for kicks. I was on my couch, RDP'd to my work computer and controlling that, my work computer was RDP'd into a server.

It worked great - just the screen is a way to small. Had to a lot of pinch and zooming with a lot of scrolling. However, it still worked and the speed was not that bad.
 
Do you really need the few more Megahertz that badly? How about these 10 HOURS battery life, twice the graphics memory (twice the RAM on the base bodel)?

The things I like about my 2009 13" MBP (the current model up until yesterday) is the backit keyboard, the never-sticky and large trackpad, the LED lit screen, loudspeaker volume, long battery life and the looks and feel of it. I rarely max out the CPU (except when browsing some bad website with flash or in Logic Studio) and like how small and light the thing is and the fact that I don't need to panic if I forgot the power adapter at home so much.


lol... Bravoo
 
sucks that 13 still has core 2 duo...

i plan on buying one anyway because i need a new computer and funds are tight.. should I wait a little while to get a new version of os x and ilife?? im not sure when those are to be updated does anybody know anything about that? any rumors about office 2010 and iwork??
 
I don't see why people want Core i3 in any Apple product.

It's a modern day Celeron.

A better way of putting it is that its like taking one step forward in CPU performance but 100 steps backwards in GPU performance.

In a real world situation, the difference between the higher clocked Core 2 Duo and Core i3 would not be seen.

However, as time goes on and more things rely on OpenCL, that Core i3 with Intel graphics is going to seem like a turtle compared to that Core 2 Duo and nvidia GPU.

Also, I said it in another post and I'll say it here. The battery life is fantastic. But good battery life doesn't put Apple in a place where they can charge $1,000 more than better spec'ed Core i7 PCs.

MacBook Pro is still missing Blu-ray and 16x9 screens.

Edit: dual core Core 7 in MBP? Hilarious.
 
when is the "back to school discount"? and how much do u usually get back on the back to school discount? is it worth the wait?

They usually run their Back-to-school program from June through early September.
And typically announce or advertise it in May.
And usually update the iPods that come as the bundled bonus, right after the end of the promo (and I mean sometimes within days of the end of the promo).

The value of the bundle depends on which model of iPod you select, so could be anywhere from 5 to 10% or so. The way it usually works is that you buy a Mac through the education store, saving usually about 5% on the Mac, then you can select an iPod on the same order invoice, and get its price rebated back to you. Note it has to be placed on the same order.

So the overall savings on the total order is from 5% to 10% off from standard Apple store prices, again depending on what model Mac and what model iPod and what all you put on the order.
Of course, if you don't want or need an iPod, then the Back-to-school promo is not that significant, since you get the same education channel pricing on the Mac itself all year round. (and if you don't need the ipod but do want to buy during the promo - drop me a line! ;) )



thanks to beginnersview i don't have to answer either question haha. i'm only waiting cause i could go for a new iPod to replace my 1G 32gig Touch considering it's been having a lot of problems.
 
Lack of understanding about differences between C2D and i7

Hi Folks,

People seem to misunderstand the difference between the new Intel microarchitectures vs. the core 2 ones. There are several relevant points that favor the i7, even when comparing a dual core processor between the two generations. One is that the i7s have an on chip memory controller, which makes memory access much faster. Another is that i7s have hyper-threading in hardware, which allows faster and more efficient use of threaded resources. Another win is that the i7 chip is more energy efficient, yielding longer battery life between charges and cooler running systems. Above all, I have to seriously wonder whether people complaining about this update ever really max out the resources of their existing systems. Sometimes people just want something comparable to a formula 1 car for tootling down to the grocers for a pack of fags. Initial benchmarks look good for these guys.

Pax
 
what no usb 3 or bluray combo?
it is already obselete during launch
what? they expect us to pay through our nose and get this obselete notebook?
what a ripoff. apple computer is now an ipod, iphone, itouch and ipad company..
 
Congratulations, you're the 100th person to catch his mistake. Unfortunately... since the 2 hour mark has already passed, you didn't qualify to win the prize. :( [pro tip: folks, when you spot an obvious error on page one of a thirty-page thread... you can bet it's been dealt with a dozen times already, ad nauseam.]

Again, some people just want to be THAT GUY/GAL that corrects the wrong person on the internet. It just gives them a purpose in life, and these people RUSH to do it.

Makes them feel smarter I guess.
 
I think everyone in Europe, Canada, and Australia should stop complaining that Apple products cost more in their countries/continents. We understand. Guess what, everything costs more for you. Everything. Even products made in your countries when exported to America cost more. We pay less for a Bentley than someone in London does. Get over it. There are several reasons things cost more and it isn't limited to the exchange rate. We get it, you're upset/sad/pissed/crying/whatever. I understand, you want it to be more fair and have everyone in the world pay the same price for things relative to exchange rate, but, it isn't going to happen. I'm sorry. Really. But only because I have you jerks whining about it constantly. Every thread that mentions a product release/update is accompanied by at least three people from the above list of places complaining that "Our money is worth x, why can't apple see that?!" At least, on the whole, those posts are filled with tons of ridiculous typos and outrageous grammar, but they still get tiresome. Sorry. (rant off)


Capital 'A' for Apple. Capital 'R' for rant. There are more but I can't really be bothered with pointing them out to you. Sorry.
 
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Why are the prices the same in Europe and America :(

They are not!
That is if you mean the number is the same>
In Holland You pay for instance € 2.149,00 for the 15" i7,not 2199.
Still a F**** ripoff.
I'll wait until I am back in Asia,Sg-HK and Indonesia are all cheaper(MUCH) than Here in Holland which sux.
 
So a 15.4" 16x10 display, 2.66GHz DUAL CORE Core i7, 4GB DDR3, 500GB HDD, SD card slot, 2 USB, 1 Firewire 800, DisplayPort (adapters required!) and 512MB GeForce GT 330M for $2,199?

Though it does have fantastic battery life.

Versus this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834114803

$899 gets you a QUAD core Core i7 at 1.6GHz (it IS faster than the CPU in the MBP), 4GB DDR3, 1GB GeForce GT 330M, 500GB HDD, ExpressCard 54, 4 USB, 1 eSATA, 1 Firewire 400, HDMI, VGA, multi-card reader, etc.

However, battery life is only in the 3 hour range.

But look at the difference in price. You not only get double the video memory but a faster processor for a full $1300 less. Thats enough to buy a 64GB iPad, a good display, and still have money left over.
 
So a 15.4" 16x10 display, 2.66GHz DUAL CORE Core i7, 4GB DDR3, 500GB HDD, SD card slot, 2 USB, 1 Firewire 800, DisplayPort (adapters required!) and 512MB GeForce GT 330M for $2,199?

Though it does have fantastic battery life.

Versus this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834114803

$899 gets you a QUAD core Core i7 at 1.6GHz (it IS faster than the CPU in the MBP), 4GB DDR3, 1GB GeForce GT 330M, 500GB HDD, ExpressCard 54, 4 USB, 1 eSATA, 1 Firewire 400, HDMI, VGA, multi-card reader, etc.

However, battery life is only in the 3 hour range.

But look at the difference in price. You not only get double the video memory but a faster processor for a full $1300 less. Thats enough to buy a 64GB iPad, a good display, and still have money left over.

That Toshiba is also a big giant piece of garbage. You're right though, if you care mostly about specs, and don't care about build quality, weight and thickness (almost 7 pounds, over 1.5" thick), or a crappy screen, go for it.

Ultimately you have to decide what you want to pay for. It's always been true that you could buy PC laptops for a very low price, and make sacrifices for specs.
 
I think everyone in Europe, Canada, and Australia should stop complaining that Apple products cost more in their countries/continents. We understand. Guess what, everything costs more for you. Everything. Even products made in your countries when exported to America cost more. We pay less for a Bentley than someone in London does. Get over it. There are several reasons things cost more and it isn't limited to the exchange rate. We get it, you're upset/sad/pissed/crying/whatever. I understand, you want it to be more fair and have everyone in the world pay the same price for things relative to exchange rate, but, it isn't going to happen. I'm sorry. Really. But only because I have you jerks whining about it constantly. Every thread that mentions a product release/update is accompanied by at least three people from the above list of places complaining that "Our money is worth x, why can't apple see that?!" At least, on the whole, those posts are filled with tons of ridiculous typos and outrageous grammar, but they still get tiresome. Sorry. (rant off)


Uhm.. dude... it's your dollar which is so low and it's basically your country which makes the dollar so low... not to mention how deep it will fall when your country finds out they can not pay back their depths.

So, if the MBP is like 1800 in USA, it would be around 1300 euro here, that's already including US taxes and Apples profit. To get it here, you won't pay 450 euro more PER notebook. So.. you fail. You failed hard there.
 
What's wrong with MR pages

I replied a few times to a post which brings Me to the last page but I always go back(Click back)2 pages so I am where I left of but it seems to be of now.
Brings Me to a page which I already read or a page up.
Wierd:confused::eek:
 
Stupid prices in the UK.

I was genuinely looking forward to my first Mac. I was going to get the 13". I thought there is no way that prices can go up as virtually every PC laptop has a Core 2 Duo with 4 GB ram and a 250 HDD and sells for £399 - £499.

How can Apple justify this????

The Dell, Sony, HP laptops look great and I am a fan of Windows 7. Just wanted to try a Mac. BUT NOT FOR £999.

I could get blu ray, a HD 5350 and a hi def screen on a PC laptop for that.

This is an epic fail by Apple. If the 13" cost £1500 or even £2000 people would still probably buy it, Apple will continue to push prices until they literally can't anymore.
 
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