and WIN
I think that's the key: the person that wins gets to write history.
If the racist white conservatives have a problem with Mandela, then perhaps they should have made sure South Africa's apartheid government still exists?
Too bad they lost...
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Apple Remembers Nelson Mandela on Its Homepage
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I think that's the key: the person that wins gets to write history.
If the racist white conservatives have a problem with Mandela, then perhaps they should have made sure South Africa's apartheid government still exists?
Too bad they lost...
Seriously? I believe this is called a non-sequitur.
edit: just read the last few pages of this thread. Off-the-rails comes to mind.
They've all contracted through NASA, haven't they? As in, they might've done a few test flights to check for the viability of their designs, but they never launched anything into orbit on their own volition. Their primary concern is to build and design for the government.
SpaceX is a private venture with plans to become commercial in the near future. There are a few companies out with similar plans for the future, but SpaceX is the only one to successfully and continually launch rockets into low orbit, and have gone so far as to have an automated ship dock with the ISS. They're not a little company with big pie in the sky ideas. They've already achieved quite a bit.
When your weapons are useless against hardened, strategic military targets, then you go after the targets that you stand some chance against.
Right, so you're blaming Mandela for a bunch of attacks committed by other people that happened during his 27 years in prison where he had barely any contact whatsoever with the outside world?
That's a laughable attempt to disparage the man.
Mandela was locked up for 27 years by a violent, oppressive regime, and when he was released from prison and elected the first democratic President of South Africa, he had those same people who jailed him sit in the front rows at his inauguration.
That's his lasting legacy. Very few men who have ever lived have had that kind of character. You spend 27 years in jail because you were a different race and fighting for equal rights, and when you get out, you forgive the people who did this to you? Not many people could do that... most people would be angry and take that anger out on their former oppressors. Not Mandela. He channeled that anger to peace and changed the course of history.
Ahh yes just like General George Washington and the Continental Army.
Are they just supposed to bend over and take stuff like this just because it was state-sanctioned?
Well, Religion and 'think different' are pretty much polar opposites. Religion is a corrupt institution in constant need of money. In return for their money, religious followers get a list of things they shouldn't do. To each his own.
Where have you been for the past 700 years? Geez update your info.
You're using that word so loosely. I understand that internationally recognized heroes can sometimes be not-so-heroic (Obama), but come on. The only thing is that he was a communist.
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I don't see what's so ironic. My entire family goes to church for certain holidays; not once have they demanded money of us. They pass a basket around. No, not a basket with a "donate or go to Hell" or "buy indulgences" sign on it.
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Right, and that resulted in terrorism. Demonstrating your beliefs does not condone violent action - you have to draw a line. Mandela (like others) went too far and was rightly punished.
I can understand the affection that South African's have towards this man, but the reactions from the rest of the world are borderline ludicrous. We're not talking about a Messiah here, but a man that used his prison time to become a better person.
Also, Winnie had no remorse for what her 'boys' did while Nelson was locked up. At least he had the sense to ditch her to better his chances of getting in power.
"The terrorist"
The people who say this miss the context so much. You should read about the pass laws. You had to have it on you at all times -- though whites didn't need one -- and any white could demand you show him your pass at any time, proving that you had a reason to be in that spot. The ANC had been in existence as a non-violent organization for 30 years, but after the Sharpeville massacre, Mandela and other determined that they had to have a violent campaign against it. They aimed at government buildings, etc. Mandela's violent career lasted for two years. He was convicted of "treason" and "unauthorized travel" to a neighboring country for training. Once he was released, he never advocated for violence. He worked for a non-violent transition. The criticism inside the organization was that he was compromising too much. He was very pragmatic about how to relate to the mines, to Big Capital, because he wanted to include everyone in South Africa. The most notable example was the Truth & Reconciliation Commission, where people were asked to come forward and explain what happened here or there. If they told the truth, they were freed.
So, yes, he advocated violence to oppose apartheid, after at least ten years of National Party rule and endless, futile attempts to get them to change the laws that racism passed. But the country obviously has a lot to thank him for, black and white.
The people who say this miss the context so much. You should read about the pass laws. You had to have it on you at all times -- though whites didn't need one -- and any white could demand you show him your pass at any time, proving that you had a reason to be in that spot. The ANC had been in existence as a non-violent organization for 30 years, but after the Sharpeville massacre, Mandela and other determined that they had to have a violent campaign against it. They aimed at government buildings, etc. Mandela's violent career lasted for two years. He was convicted of "treason" and "unauthorized travel" to a neighboring country for training. Once he was released, he never advocated for violence. He worked for a non-violent transition. The criticism inside the organization was that he was compromising too much. He was very pragmatic about how to relate to the mines, to Big Capital, because he wanted to include everyone in South Africa. The most notable example was the Truth & Reconciliation Commission, where people were asked to come forward and explain what happened here or there. If they told the truth, they were freed.
So, yes, he advocated violence to oppose apartheid, after at least ten years of National Party rule and endless, futile attempts to get them to change the laws that racism passed. But the country obviously has a lot to thank him for, black and white.
So you don't think the systematic rape of children and covering it up as JP2 isn't violence towards children?!?
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Sometimes it's justified.
"Communist"
The ANC, when they started their resistance campaign after years of having their butts handed to them by the courts, had communists in their membership. When asked why, Mandela said, because they supported us. The same reason he was friends with Castro. There were British "liberals" living in South Africa, who wrote editorials and such in support, but they didn't put, by and large, their lives on the line. Some did, and some of them were communists.
If you don't want communists to be popular, don't pass racist, fascist right-wing laws that dehumanize 80% of the population.
Nobody I know of in the investment community, or the gold mines, or anywhere else in South Africa, said that Mandela was a communist as president. He wanted wealthy South Africa to continue, just to let others be a meaningful part of it.
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Funny, tell that to the racist bastards who instituted apartheid and enforced it with guns, tear gas and truncheons, where many, many black demonstrators and activists were jailed and killed.
The ANC, when they started their resistance campaign after years of having their butts handed to them by the courts, had communists in their membership. When asked why, Mandela said, because they supported us. The same reason he was friends with Castro. There were British "liberals" living in South Africa, who wrote editorials and such in support, but they didn't put, by and large, their lives on the line. Some did, and some of them were communists.
If you don't want communists to be popular, don't pass racist, fascist right-wing laws that dehumanize 80% of the population.
Nobody I know of in the investment community, or the gold mines, or anywhere else in South Africa, said that Mandela was a communist as president. He wanted wealthy South Africa to continue, just to let others be a meaningful part of it.
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Funny, tell that to the racist bastards who instituted apartheid and enforced it with guns, tear gas and truncheons, where many, many black demonstrators and activists were jailed and killed.
Well your getting your knowledge of SA from a person who only lived there for 13 years . Sorry but that individual is too young to have experienced what truly happened and how much that country has changed . I know many SA's and I would never ever try to judge thier country based on them. If you ever travel to Johannesburg a few days there will open you eyes beyond you wildest expectations of having known this individual.
That's not a joke. Racism doesn't even begin to describe the horrors of apartheid.
Are you daft? I never said institutional racism is ok. I said that Mandela is a terrorist who killed innocents and turned a tier 1 country (that somehow managed to give a black man world-class education while being racist) into a ********, and ultimately failed to make anyone's life better. He is the greater of the two evils, if you like it that way.
What have you done with your life?
I can absolutely assure you that the Pope and the church has given more to the world than you and your kin for a thousand years.
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I always love the "demographic x were better off being oppressed" position.
Colonialism : look it up . If your from a county that was colonised , your own history is based on atrocities. And see how many natives you can find right now , it was almost genocide, look at the native populations currently is Australia or US.
Exactly. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. There has never been a war or conflict in history in which innocent people didn't die or bad things weren't done.
Were the founding fathers of the US terrorists? They sought to overthrow British rule by force so in that sense you could say that yes they were.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
I don't get why you think black people were better off under Apartheid?
Do you really think the Apartheid government routinely killing and beating black people is better than what they have now?
Not sure why you would publicly proclaim your love of racism here...
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Again, how is SpaceX different from the other private companies? You say they receive government funding to supply the ISS... how is that different than any other private companies that receive government funding?
I don't see how living in a country filled with murder and diseases is better than in an oppressive prosperous country. Trading bad for worse is hardly an accomplishment.