Apple Removes Civil War Games From App Store Over Confederate Flag Usage [Updated]

[Shirasaki]

Freedom IS relative. Remember when George Bush wanted to spread "USA freedom" to the Middle East? They didn't want *our* version of freedom. So yes, it is relative. The freedom the United States knows is something that frankly is more the exception than the rule throughout the world. What I can shout at my street corner and get away with as first amendment protected speech is vastly different than what I can do in most countries throughout the world. At best, it may get me smacked across the head, at worst it could get me jailed or killed.

Talking about it, I find many similarities on Chinese government and American government. But why they...uh, maybe this could be the reason they just tend to slightly offend the other.
And I find I may understand why Apple could get into China with less efforts than Google, which the search engine is completely blocked by government.
Can I say this is the hard coded human weaknesses?

 

[neuropsychguy]

Check out Tim Cook's last tweet. This decision was made at the very top.

It might have been but I'd be very surprised if it was. What's more likely is that someone in the review process made the decision thinking it would be okay with management (e.g., he/she interpreted Tim Cook's tweet and internal emails in a way that probably wasn't intended). I could be completely wrong and it could have come from the top but it's a stretch to believe that Tim Cook or someone working closely with him said, "Let's get rid of apps with Confederate flags in them" or even implied something like that.

 

[furi0usbee]

In discussions elsewhere regarding e-bay and others people regularly mentioned the confederate flag was not actually the flag for the south during the civil war.

It should be easy enough for these games to become more historically accurate and relisted. The confederate flag was co-opted 60 some years ago to stand in support of segregation and Jim Crowe laws. Since this was never an official flag of the confederate army and has since only been used to demonstrate hate and ignorance, these game developers should be able to easily fix the problem all while making their games more historically correct.

The 2nd and 3rd versions of the Confederate States flag certainly did have what we all recognize today as key elements of any Confederate flag that is recognizable today. So unless you require game developers to only use the 1st version, people would still probably complain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

 

[KdParker]

So basically altering history is okay with you? Sounds a lot like lying to me.

LOL. So history will be re-written if they don't sell the games with the confederate flag?

Keep in mind that what we all think is history was 'altered' from the get go and one less representation of the traitors flag will not change that reality.

 

[theelysium]

God, one knee jerk over emotional reaction after another. The Confederate Flag is not a racists symbol like the media would like you to be believe. I lived in the South for 5 years. All my friends displayed the flag as a symbol of southern pride. That's it. Nothing to do with racism.

 

[Arndroid]

So under that same rule basically any Bible/Torah/Quran app should be removed as well.

Which of those exist solely to promote hatred?

 

[Waxhead138]

Mass shooting = removal of flags. Good call America. Whatever you do though, don't remove those guns. It's your birthright to own as many of those as you want.

This American wishes he could up vote this repeatedly. This country does indeed make incredibly stupid decisions, and reacts to tradegies in the most peculiar of ways. The PC world, especially in the US, has gone completely insane and taken things way too far.

We're a stones throw away from having Thought Police. We probably don't now just due to technological restraints.

 

[theelysium]

There is another name for people who alter history and history books... they are called Democrats. Which if you pay attention Democrats are staring the Confederate flag war.

 

[maelstromr]

I totally understand and appreciate that context. I just think it's disingenuous to link the Emanuel Church shooting to the cause of removing this flag. The shooter held the flag is photos in his deranged manifesto or whatever, and someone pointed out that the state where this took place flied the flag on a government building. The nexus ends there.

Removing the symbol doesn't remove the idea behind it, just like banning certain hateful words doesn't erase their meaning. Hate will continue to exist, and it's a fools errand to think otherwise. However, this tragedy could have been prevented by common sense gun regulations. Opponents say that if not a gun, he would have used a bomb. But bomb-making ingredients are tracked, companies that sell those chemicals are heavily regulated and must record all purchases, large volumes of those chemicals are only sold to licensed and vetted people. The regulations are perfect, but they're 100x more stringent than what we have on guns today. To those that say he could have used a bomb, I say fine, let's raise the level of regulation of guns to the level of regulations of bomb-making chemicals.

Back on point, I agree that this symbol of hate should not be glorified by being flown on government buildings, part of state flags, or printed on belt buckles (though, in all those instances, it does help identify *******s from a distance). However, I think the timing of this discussion is suspect. We can remove all the confederate flags in the entire work, and ban the image form ever being shown again, and that wouldn't prevent the sort of tragedy that occurred in the Emanuel Church.

As to your comment about Apple being a private company (which, it's not - it's a publicly traded company, but I'll give it the benefit of the business judgement rule). Apple's board of directors didn't wake up yesterday and suddenly realize they were supporting racism. "Oh drat, we were being racist? Well, remove all the games with confederate symbols in them and all will be right. Apple has decided to no longer be racist." This was probably a me-too reaction to the other retailers, probably fearing potential backlash if some journalist wanted to make a stink about these games at a later time.

As for quotes, "those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it." Erasing the flag, even from video games inspired by historical events, seems to ensure it is a history we will repeat.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Two things: by "private" I meant "not a government actor" and in re "historic context" see my earlier posts. The Dixie Cross is not a historically accurate, relevant symbol for the Confederacy. It IS a historically accurate, relevant symbol of segregationists, lynching, hatred and one of the darker periods of American history.

 

[furi0usbee]

Talking about it, I find many similarities on Chinese government and American government. But why they...uh, maybe this could be the reason they just tend to slightly offend the other.
And I find I may understand why Apple could get into China with less efforts than Google, which the search engine is completely blocked by government.
Can I say this is the hard coded human weaknesses?

You lost me there. I'm sure you can find similarities to the Chinese and American governments, but I could find more differences to be sure. In China, truth and information is the enemy. And Google being the company that handles the bulk of the world's internet searches, they are much more dangerous to China than Apple, who simply provides a way for people to use the information that Google first provides them in the first place.

 

[Arndroid]

God, one knee jerk over emotional reaction after another. The Confederate Flag is not a racists symbol like the media would like you to be believe. I lived in the South for 5 years. All my friends displayed the flag as a symbol of southern pride. That's it. Nothing to do with racism.

Just because you and your friends are ignorant of what it represents doesn't change anything.

The confederate flag was not the official flag of the south in the civil war and was co-opted 60 years ago specifically to promote racism. That you and your friends were tricked into advertising a solely racist symbol doesn't change any of that.

 

[rdrr]

Which of those exist solely to promote hatred?

Have you read any of them? The Old testament has many references to kill those who are not from the tribes of Israel. The Quran has a whole section where it describes how women are less than a man, and how you need 3 of them for a witness at a trial for every man.

I have never read the Torah, so I cannot comment on that one.

However there have been more people killed in the name of God/Allah than any other cause. I am not picking on the just the Islam here, Christianity is as equally responsible.

 

[dwsolberg]

This is an overreaction by Apple. I don't think they should support showing the confederate flag in the context of supporting racial divides, but at least some of these games are simply showing them in historical context. Hiding contextualized information doesn't seem to serve a good purpose overall.

 

[KALLT]

Fantastic, this seems to affect not only users in the US, but everyone else too. I am sick and tired of Apple's American double standards and censorship.

 

[TonyC28]

Which of those exist solely to promote hatred?

Are you saying that the confederate flag exists solely to promote hatred?

It might have been but I'd be very surprised if it was. What's more likely is that someone in the review process made the decision thinking it would be okay with management (e.g., he/she interpreted Tim Cook's tweet and internal emails in a way that probably wasn't intended). I could be completely wrong and it could have come from the top but it's a stretch to believe that Tim Cook or someone working closely with him said, "Let's get rid of apps with Confederate flags in them" or even implied something like that.

Given that Tim Cook said "Let us honor their lives by eradicating racism & removing the symbols & words that feed it" I don't think it's much of a stretch to think he had a hand in removing these symbols from the app store. However, this is hardly the point. Hopefully someone at Apple wakes up and realizes the lunacy and hypocrisy at play here.

 

[theelysium]

Freedom isn't free, it costs folks like you and me! If you don't chip in you buck 0' five who will?

 

[Shirasaki]

You lost me there. I'm sure you can find similarities to the Chinese and American governments, but I could find more differences to be sure. In China, truth and information is the enemy. And Google being the company that handles the bulk of the world's internet searches, they are much more dangerous to China than Apple, who simply provides a way for people to use the information that Google first provides them in the first place.

I like this point you mention in here: truth and information is the enemy in China. And that is why i expect they will pay for this, sooner or later.

 

[Arndroid]

Displaying the flag in modern society is one thing, but displaying it on the context of the era it is from is another.

Should we shut down all civil war museums too? Should Apple also remove all WW2 games that display a swastika? Should Apple pull all history textbooks from the ibook store that contain either a confederate flag or a swastika? What about all the civil war / WW2 documentaries on iTunes?

Since that was the flag of the confederacy I am not sure what place the confederate flag has.

 

[Skika]

This is insanity

 

[NMBob]

Displaying the flag in modern society is one thing, but displaying it on the context of the era it is from is another.

Should we shut down all civil war museums too? Should Apple also remove all WW2 games that display a swastika? Should Apple pull all history textbooks from the ibook store that contain either a confederate flag or a swastika? What about all the civil war / WW2 documentaries on iTunes?

History can't repeat itself if it's not forgotten.

 

[pavelbure]

Mass shooting = removal of flags. Good call America. Whatever you do though, don't remove those guns. It's your birthright to own as many of those as you want.

You got your wish, everyone in that church was unarmed except the killer. You saw what happened in that scenario.

Btw, he would have got a gun regardless of what laws got in the way. Also murder is illegal and he did that too.

 

[oneMadRssn]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Two things: by "private" I meant "not a government actor" and in re "historic context" see my earlier posts. The Dixie Cross is not a historically accurate, relevant symbol for the Confederacy. It IS a historically accurate, relevant symbol of segregationists, lynching, hatred and one of the darker periods of American history.

Agreed. I would not suggest Apple pulling the games is a first amendment issue at all. It's not.

 

[oneMadRssn]

Since that was the flag of the confederacy I am not sure what place the confederate flag has.

You're oversimplifying. The confederacy didn't have just one flag. Many units / generals had their own flags. Within the movement, there were different factions. I agree that the flag at issue today wasn't the one flag either, indeed it was a rather minor symbol back then. Just like the swastika isn't the only Nazi Germany symbol - they also used the iron cross, among others.

 

[jc1350]

Since that was the flag of the confederacy I am not sure what place the confederate flag has.

That is the first flag of the Confederacy. It looked too much like the US flag on the battlefield which caused some...problems shall we say. A new design was created with mostly a white field, but when draped on a windless day it look too much like the surrender flag. A third design was created by adding a vertical red bar to the right edge of the Second flag.

 

[BruceEBonus]

Let's rewrite history. Aldous Huxley - you couldn't have made it up. No wait. You did. It really IS a Brave New World!