Apple Removes Civil War Games From App Store Over Confederate Flag Usage [Updated]

[maelstromr]

The context of this article on Mac Rumors is about Civil War titles and the use of the confederate flag in said titles. Actual history is what is being referred to by using the flags IN CONTEXT, and not the perverted adaptation and adoption of Joe Billy-Bob's muddin' rig's decoration.

So if the removals reflect only a decision based on the app image and its appearance in store, and not based on "historical appearance in context," you would be fine with the decision? (Note that the "Dixie Cross" "confederate flag" we are talking about actually had limited, historically correct, relevance to the Confederacy in general. )

 

[Shirasaki]

I'm pretty liberal, but this is absolutely ridiculous. Removing the flag from flying over a state capital is one thing, but completely trying to erase the Confederacy from history via calling for the removal of statues and in context of a Civil War game, etc is overkill to say the least. I say this as an individual with a Bachelors degree in American Studies, a family that fought for the Union in the war, a huge Civil War buff, an activist for equality, a researcher and writer on slavery in my region, and a lifelong resident of a Southern border state.

We should always confront and eliminate hate, but never try to rewrite or censor history. If we start eliminating everything that is offensive by today's standards we will have our work cut out for us, including eliminating all vestiges of Thomas Jefferson (who was a Virginia slave holder for those who are unaware). It is a slippery and dangerous slope.

And Chinese government is doing so, in an attempt to rewrite history, and punish anyone discussing it.

 

[neuropsychguy]

I can't believe there wasn't at least one person in the conference room where this decision was made who said: "Ya know Tim, these games have been around for a while. We might look a little ridiculous removing them now and citing our own rule."

This likely isn't something coming from the top. It was possibly done by one of the reviewers without official sanction, or maybe just immediate supervisory sanction.

 

[WaxedJacket]

This is seriously ridiculous.

 

[Shirasaki]

Whoa, and here I was, thinking that the Chinese were overdoing their censorship.

And they will pay, sooner or later.

 

[bobob]

Displaying the flag in modern society is one thing, but displaying it on the context of the era it is from is another.

Should we shut down all civil war museums too? Should Apple also remove all WW2 games that display a swastika? Should Apple pull all history textbooks from the ibook store that contain either a confederate flag or a swastika? What about all the civil war / WW2 documentaries on iTunes?

/end thread

 

[Rogifan]

So should Google start censoring image searches to remove all confederate/battle flags and remove images of people like Jefferson Davis and Robert E Lee? Is that what we've come to?!?

 

[TechZeke]

This is getting way out of control...it's a game....

This is like taking the swastika out of a WWII Game. It's about the history. As wargamer myself, this is disappointing. How else will historical games portray the confederacy? If it's in the historical context, what is there to be offended about?

 

[oneMadRssn]

Mass shooting = removal of flags. Good call America. Whatever you do though, don't remove those guns. It's your birthright to own as many of those as you want.

I had this thought, and it might be even too "tin-foil hat" for me, but I'll try anyway. Could this outrage over the confederate flag merchandise be manufactured outrage by the NRA / gun lobby to defer the conversation from the real issue - the fact that anyone, even someone with severe mental health disorders, can buy a gun no questions asked in most of the country?

It started a legitimate issue - the confederate glad being flown on a state building. From there, this seems to have evolved into an opportunistic deterrent of attention. "Hey look over here! This picture makes you mad! Grr! Don't look over there, over there is boring and you're tired of being angry over there. Look over here! Over here is new and fresh and black people will think you're cool."

 

[scottsjack]

WTF?? So, we're supposed to completely ignore American history and pretend it didn't happen?

That's the way the PC crowd wants it. You ignore history if it is a White thing and keep repeating, and repeated and repeating history if it is a Black thing. Those people are truly insane as well as dangerous.

 

[NutsNGum]

I think within the context of the Civil War, it should be okay to show the flag. It's not like the game is called "Billy Bob's Redneck Jamboree 2015"

That was the working title for the Entourage movie.

 

[furi0usbee]

Apparently *diversity* is only good when it suits your tastes Apple. Some divergent thoughts or narratives are off limits I guess. To me, the Confederate Flag is a symbol of the loser, the side that got beat. If the other side wants to tout that, so be it. In the USA, everyone has the right to celebrate their failures.

 

[SgtPepper12]

Which in my opinion is sad. The proper way to handle "negative" imagery, etc, is to properly put them into context. MORE information, not less people!

Some things:

1. That law was instated very shortly after WW2. Back then people were scared, they literally didn't know how all of it happened. To them, nothing but banning the associated symbols completely made sense, especially as the people that made it all happen in the first place were still in the country. There was no other way to fight it back then. There was no point in founding a new republic with a horrible past like that without explicitly abolishing everything that's connected to this past. There was no other way to get the trust of the surrounding countries back.

2. The whole idea of the ban as of today is to not let the symbol become a joke or let people forget what it really means. And what I can say about this is that to me the swastika has this weird effect on me. The ban sort of conditioned me to associate the symbol with some vague feeling of danger. But that's just me. Other people feel provoked by the ban and spray it on walls etc. Both effects probably cancel each other out. But I don't know.

3. I actually think these symbols are just the symptom of something that lies deeper. Fighting that via education is a better idea. But lifting the ban would send the wrong message. It will never happen and it probably should never happen.

4. The law does not apply to use of the symbols in education. The law is supposed to guarantee that children especially only see these symbols in proper context.

As much as I like to think that we don't need a law like that, there's simply no alternative.

 

[WissMAN]

I hate PC crap. This is not PC crap. That flag symbol has one meaning NOW. Just like the swastika had an old, even ancient, meaning but only has one real meaning now. My understanding is that this is about the main icon in the store and on the app interface using the flag, not it simply appearing in the game tied to confederate units. A WWII game surely has Nazi flags in the game, but you would NEVER make the main icon for the game the traditional Nazi flag. This is the same thing.

For any of you confused on what the confederate flag is really about:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/confederate-flag-racist_n_7639788.html

Wow. Huffingtonpost is NOT an unbiased source for defining the confederate flag meaning. It is not even close. At least use an unbiased reference site.

 

[Wyvernspirit]

In a game about the Civil War having the confederate flag makes sense... This is just stupid.

 

[Rogifan]

This likely isn't something coming from the top. It was possibly done by one of the reviewers without official sanction, or maybe just immediate supervisory sanction.

It might not have come from Cook, Cue or Schiller but I don't believe for one second if Steve Jobs was still running the show this would have happened. I tweeted Cook, Schiller and Cue to let them know how ridiculous this is. I'm sure I'm not the only one. We'll see if they do anything about it or if you have to be Taylor Swift to get Apple to act these days.

 

[TonyC28]

This likely isn't something coming from the top. It was possibly done by one of the reviewers without official sanction, or maybe just immediate supervisory sanction.

Check out Tim Cook's last tweet. This decision was made at the very top.

 

[Cayden]

I think apps depicting the flag as use for a background or other situations should've been removed, but those that show it in the correct historical context shouldn't have been removed

 

[scott911]

I completely support the removal of flags in modern content - above state houses, on licencee plates, etc. That usage, to me, is supporting a pro-slavery mindset, a wish, if you will, that the oppression of slavery still existed.

But in this content - a historical one - Apples move makes me worried. For example, when I go to Gettysburg, it important to see the artifacts as they existed.

Of course, this is a game - which makes it more complicated, not simpler as many here are contending. One could argue that allowing people to play as Confederates is glorifying white supremacy.

* btw - I usually avoid these "political' threads, but I found I benefited from many of the intelligent comments here. Props to mac rumors community.

 

[maelstromr]

I had this thought, and it might be even too "tin-foil hat" for me, but I'll try anyway. Could this outrage over the confederate flag merchandise be manufactured outrage by the NRA / gun lobby to defer the conversation from the real issue - the fact that anyone, even someone with severe mental health disorders, can buy a gun no questions asked in most of the country?

It started a legitimate issue - the confederate glad being flown on a state building. From there, this seems to have evolved into an opportunistic deterrent of attention. "Hey look over here! This picture makes you mad! Grr! Don't look over there, over there is boring and you're tired of being angry over there. Look over here! Over here is new and fresh and black people will think you're cool."

As I mentioned above, I hate PC crap, but your comment seems to entirely discount the actual meaning of this image, an image that in historical context has limited relevance to the Confederacy. Its real significance came in the 1950s and 60s during the Civil Rights fight, when it was resurrected solely as a symbol of hate and a rallying point for those who opposed desegregation. The overall concern here is no different than the abhorrence we (mostly) all feel when we see the Nazi flag flown with pride. The specific concern here is not whether the flag appears in a historic context (remember only a few ACTUAL CONFEDERATE UNITS used anything like the Dixie Cross), but rather is it appropriate to fly such a hateful symbol in any unnecessary context. The private company Apple made a private decision to not support such a thing, and I think it is wonderful. "Long live the South, and quickly die the Confederacy."

 

[John.B]

Are album covers next? There are at least a handful of Lynyrd Skynryd albums with some sort of Confederate flag theme, some of which are currently sold in the iTunes store.

 

[steve62388]

It's interesting watching all this Confederate flag thing from outside the United States. For me the flag means very little either way, it might be an over reaction.

But perhaps people protesting against it's removal should perhaps look a little bit deeper behind the reasons rather than screaming censorship? It's what that flag brings from the past and also how it has been appropriated today by a subset of society and what they want that flag to represent i.e. racism. Instead use your energy to fight against inequality in all aspects of the USA, it is after all one of the most unequal nations on Earth.

 

[unlinked]

Of course, this is a game - which makes it more complicated, not simpler as many here are contending. One could argue that allowing people to play as Confederates is glorifying white supremacy.

You can argue pretty much any point but I would be surprised if anyone could come up with an argument for imposing a ban immediately as opposed to notifying developers with a date after which unchanged games would be banned.

 

[ucfgrad93]

The flag shown in its historical context is very different from the flag being flown over a government building in 2015...

Agreed. Stupid move by Apple.

 

[furi0usbee]

And, could I say: war is just a tool for achieving freedom? I mean, if i want freedom which belongs to me, I need to fight for it.

Yes. Freedom only belongs to you because the country you live in (or another country) already provided that freedom to you-- by winning a war. Freedom ends at the border line of tyranny.