Very bad... I'm disappointed. It's a game and it's part of our history.... no different than a WW2 game and some people are really into the Civil War thing. That's their choice and as free people we should be able to make a choice. This PC crap is going too far.
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Apple Removes Civil War Games From App Store Over Confederate Flag Usage [Updated]
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Well said - that's an element of the debate I didn't know until this week. I had assumed southern states flew the flag on and off since the civil war. Maybe in remembrance of their soldiers, or just pissed that they lost.
But in fact, the flags were raised in 50's and 60's BY STATE LEGISLATORS, in protest to federal desegregation laws. The government may have passed laws they were forced to follow (let everyone drink at the same drinking fountain) but a bunch of white politicians made sure everyone in town know what their state's true position was going to be.
Everyone's entitled to hold their own opinions, but don't blame your fart on the dog.
Can't say I see this as a good move either. Unless it was "Confederacy Slavery Simulator: The Old Ways were Best" or something, I can't see much of a distinction between other media that contain the flag and the iOS games. You're going to ban people from playing games centered around a historical period?
You agree because you don't actually understand the historic context. The Dixie Cross is not the "Confederate Flag" - it was a battle flag used by a handful of units, and only one in the rectangle form we all know. It became a "symbol of the Confederacy" only when it was brought back in the 1950s to be a symbol for the segregationists. Your average Confederate from 1863 would be rather confused as to why the Dixie Cross was a catch all Confederate symbol. Thus, in the correct historic context, the inclusion of this particular image as a general symbol is completely incorrect. If it has no (or limited) legitimate historic context - why is it a legitimate image given its other, very clear, very evil associations?
This law very likely made sense in the 1950s/60s.
Nowadays, the problem is with idiots that can't put things into perspective. It's like those "Hitler finds out" videos. They are somewhat funny (sometimes), but most people know that he was one of the worst monsters in history.
So basically altering history is okay with you? Sounds a lot like lying to me.
Racism? Ban All The Flags! *swipes hands together twice* Problem solved!
Yes, Nazi symbols, Mein Kampf etc. are banned in Germany.
It has nothing to do with historical revisionism, quite the opposite actually. Germany performed one of the biggest atrocities in the last couple of centuries. If you’re the government and the population of that country it goes a bit further than just embarrassment, you want to make absolutely sure it can never happen again.
That is why Germany makes sure every kid is taught about these atrocities, is very sensitive about Neo-Nazis and tries hard to nip any likeminded groups in the bud (with varying success). That is why symbols such as the swastika, Waffen-SS and other related symbols are not allowed outside of history lessons.
And you know what? I perfectly understand it.
I was born after the war and so were my parents. However, my mother's father (who died before I was born) was jailed by the Nazis during German occupation. For the first twenty years of my parents’ lives, birthday ‘parties’ essentially consisted of older people telling harrowing tales of how they had to walk back 1000 kilometres from some camp in Poland after the war. How some people presumed dead would walk back into town, -flea-invested and malnutritioned- six months after the war had ended because they only just found their way back. How half their street was cleared in the razzias to never see their neighbours ever again. How every once in a while the Nazis would block both sides of the street and search every single house looking for any men over 18 to send to labour camps, shooting through floorboards or doors if they thought someone might be hiding. How people were in forced labour camps building the same planes that would shoot at their families back home. My father has a goodbye letter written by his 18 year old father to his parents. The Nazis had deported him to Germany where he was forced work on a railway sidings. Because the allied forces would regularly bomb pieces of infrastructure no German would work there, only captured foreigners. He didn’t expect to survive the constant air raids.
A few years ago I was walking through the old part of the city and suddenly saw a Swastika flag flying from a building, surrounded by army vehicles. It turned out to be the scene for a WWII film. I froze up, shivered and got goosebumps. And I’m not even first or second generation, German, Jewish, Gay or Gypsy.
I totally get their point of banning Nazi icons.
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I heard this word before: history is written by victor.
Now I know, freedom is a relative concept.
Well it is the wrong flag for the confederate side minus a few segments. Maybe replace it with the correct one?
Since all societies and cultures, yes all, have had issues with racism and hate, we should pull all apps that have any reference to any flags, countries, cultures, or were developed by humans that have descended from any country or race. That will fix this "problem".
Apple's always been fairly shy of controversy when it comes to software on the app store, but this is taking things to ridiculous extremes.
Freedom IS relative. Remember when George Bush wanted to spread "USA freedom" to the Middle East? They didn't want *our* version of freedom. So yes, it is relative. The freedom the United States knows is something that frankly is more the exception than the rule throughout the world. What I can shout at my street corner and get away with as first amendment protected speech is vastly different than what I can do in most countries throughout the world. At best, it may get me smacked across the head, at worst it could get me jailed or killed.
In discussions elsewhere regarding e-bay and others people regularly mentioned the confederate flag was not actually the flag for the south during the civil war.
It should be easy enough for these games to become more historically accurate and relisted. The confederate flag was co-opted 60 some years ago to stand in support of segregation and Jim Crowe laws. Since this was never an official flag of the confederate army and has since only been used to demonstrate hate and ignorance, these game developers should be able to easily fix the problem all while making their games more historically correct.
It should be easy enough for these games to become more historically accurate and relisted. The confederate flag was co-opted 60 some years ago to stand in support of segregation and Jim Crowe laws. Since this was never an official flag of the confederate army and has since only been used to demonstrate hate and ignorance, these game developers should be able to easily fix the problem all while making their games more historically correct.
The problem with comparing indentured servitude to the existence of a book, is that you can ignore the existence of a book, it won't beat you to death for doing so.
I am saddened by this. It's a historical reference to something that happened and should not be removed. I'm also bothered by how PC Apple has become these days.
So, as a shareholder, next time voting comes around, Tim and the whole board gets my NO vote. I encourage all that are shareholders vote the way they feel. Send a loud message to Apple to stop being PC and get back to making great products.
So, as a shareholder, next time voting comes around, Tim and the whole board gets my NO vote. I encourage all that are shareholders vote the way they feel. Send a loud message to Apple to stop being PC and get back to making great products.
Now not that i'm advocating the use of the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism, but doesn't, say ... Wolfenstein on the App store use plenty of Swastikas? That must be far more obvious and offensive?
Ive also noticed that it has a gun on the App icon as well, doesn't THAT contravene App Store policies too?
I've said too much, Wolfenstein will be nixed from the app store by the end of the day ...
EDIT: apologies, plenty of others have already shared this exact sentiment
Ive also noticed that it has a gun on the App icon as well, doesn't THAT contravene App Store policies too?
I've said too much, Wolfenstein will be nixed from the app store by the end of the day ...
EDIT: apologies, plenty of others have already shared this exact sentiment
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Those who know history know that there were slaves up north too.
The Civil War was all about the south wanting manufacturing (higher paying jobs) to go along with it being a raw material supplier. The North wanted to keep the high paying jobs to itself. It wanted to keep the south poor and under its control.
The question of slavery was just a ploy to get the common folk riled up to support military action against the south.
Much like how Hitler used the Jews as a way to rile up the German people to go along with him.
Too many people believe in the Gone With the Wind portrayal of the Civil War.
A much more accurate Clack Gable movie is Band of Angels.
The Civil War was all about the south wanting manufacturing (higher paying jobs) to go along with it being a raw material supplier. The North wanted to keep the high paying jobs to itself. It wanted to keep the south poor and under its control.
The question of slavery was just a ploy to get the common folk riled up to support military action against the south.
Much like how Hitler used the Jews as a way to rile up the German people to go along with him.
Too many people believe in the Gone With the Wind portrayal of the Civil War.
A much more accurate Clack Gable movie is Band of Angels.
That's really bizarre and sounds like it's going way too far.
I completely support removing the flag from government buildings. But a civil war game is a context in which continuing to use it makes perfect sense. Just like the nazi flag is offensive but any reasonable person would expect to see it in a WW2 game.
Did they really remove ALL Civil War games? Or just a few of them that they felt were using the flag in a way to mock people?
If they are all gone, are they also removing Glory, Gettysburg, and all other civil war movies from the iTunes movie store, since they all show that flag at some point? Ken Burns civil war series? The Dukes of Hazard?
I completely support removing the flag from government buildings. But a civil war game is a context in which continuing to use it makes perfect sense. Just like the nazi flag is offensive but any reasonable person would expect to see it in a WW2 game.
Did they really remove ALL Civil War games? Or just a few of them that they felt were using the flag in a way to mock people?
If they are all gone, are they also removing Glory, Gettysburg, and all other civil war movies from the iTunes movie store, since they all show that flag at some point? Ken Burns civil war series? The Dukes of Hazard?
Apple is removing any game that has a Confederate flag anywhere, not just in the icon. For example, Apple removed Ultimate General: Gettysburg, and that game doesn't have a Confederate flag in its icon.
Apple is quickly becoming a train wreck.
I totally understand and appreciate that context. I just think it's disingenuous to link the Emanuel Church shooting to the cause of removing this flag. The shooter held the flag is photos in his deranged manifesto or whatever, and someone pointed out that the state where this took place flied the flag on a government building. The nexus ends there.
Removing the symbol doesn't remove the idea behind it, just like banning certain hateful words doesn't erase their meaning. Hate will continue to exist, and it's a fools errand to think otherwise. However, this tragedy could have been prevented by common sense gun regulations. Opponents say that if not a gun, he would have used a bomb. But bomb-making ingredients are tracked, companies that sell those chemicals are heavily regulated and must record all purchases, large volumes of those chemicals are only sold to licensed and vetted people. The regulations are perfect, but they're 100x more stringent than what we have on guns today. To those that say he could have used a bomb, I say fine, let's raise the level of regulation of guns to the level of regulations of bomb-making chemicals.
Back on point, I agree that this symbol of hate should not be glorified by being flown on government buildings, part of state flags, or printed on belt buckles (though, in all those instances, it does help identify *******s from a distance). However, I think the timing of this discussion is suspect. We can remove all the confederate flags in the entire work, and ban the image form ever being shown again, and that wouldn't prevent the sort of tragedy that occurred in the Emanuel Church.
As to your comment about Apple being a private company (which, it's not - it's a publicly traded company, but I'll give it the benefit of the business judgement rule). Apple's board of directors didn't wake up yesterday and suddenly realize they were supporting racism. "Oh drat, we were being racist? Well, remove all the games with confederate symbols in them and all will be right. Apple has decided to no longer be racist." This was probably a me-too reaction to the other retailers, probably fearing potential backlash if some journalist wanted to make a stink about these games at a later time.
As for quotes, "those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it." Erasing the flag, even from video games inspired by historical events, seems to ensure it is a history we will repeat.
Except sometimes there really are good guys and bad guys. I would question anybodies sanity in an attempt to argue that the German's winning WW2 would have been a good idea, likewise segregation in the southern US.
There is also grey, some would say the Iraq War is an example. But more often that not after all the hysteria has died down historians often come to a general consensus about good, bad and even grey.
So 'history is written by the victors' is a non-analytical person's way out of thinking for themselves.
In the United States, the country that freed you, we have this thing called free speech which protects speech that is even quite rude and annoying. You should look into getting that.
That fact informs why so many posters here rightfully object to Apple's and other's response to a Confederate flag flying near a State capitol at a war memorial. Ie. not flying over the capitol itself.
Yet another generated crisis by "community organizers", notably from outside the state at issue. Like the imported Ferguson protestors and looters.
Rocketman
So should we go back and replace the flag that is associated with the Confederacy in every painting of the civil war? Oh I know... Lets just remove them or burn them!