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Like he did with the iPhone 4's antenna?

LoL .. Some people still think Steve is the perfect guy when he was Apple CEO?

iPhone 4 antennagate
Power Cube
Slow as molasses and super expensive 1st gen MBA
iPad 1st gen ugly design

All happened under Steve's supervision. Yes he was inspiring figure but he's nowhere near perfect. Grow up would you?

Tim is fine and he is handling larger sales and logistic problems more than Steve ever has to.

So yeah ..."Steve would have never allowed this" kind of post needs to be banned. He's great but just as guilty as the next guy.

Oh and one more thing. Steve Jobs does not apologize even if he need to. If you're a fan you should know this already?

You should look up the word "Never"

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It would be an "epic fail" if it were a new phone. As mentioned in this post, you really need to think of the iPhone 5c as if they just sold the iPhone 5 for $100 less (like they did with the 4S last year, etc)

Please.... you are all bashing at me becuase you know that I am right. just admit it!

I know the word "never"! I speak english good enough thanks you much!

The fact still stands: Steve was BY FAR the best CEO ever in a technical company of Apples caliber. Tim doesn't even come close.

Don't tell me to grow up when you can't even admit to the truth... You are all badmouthing Steve's legacy.
 
Failure? Firstly this is just a rumour. Secondly if it is true they are still producing just under 5 million 5c's a month. We also have no idea about the production ramp, this could well have been part of the plan all along.

To ramp down production by half in less than 1 month since launch. Sounds like an extremely poor plan. Remember that all production cuts we have heard about with past iPhones occur in late Spring/summer. Plus, there are many other indicators that this isn't selling you seem to be ignoring.
 
Compared to the 5S and other "new" products by Apple it is a failure.

So, anything other than the best selling phone in the world is a failure? Tough crowd. Doesn't that mean that either the 5S or the 5C had to be a failure?

How many times has a "new" Apple product dropped in price (by retailers)

Walmart dropped the price of the 5S and 5C before they even launched. Does that make them both failures? Amazon drops the price of best sellers below cost. Does than make all best sellers failures?

Retailers compete with each other to get consumer business. When they drop prices, it's to get you to buy from them instead of their competitors.

and demand in less than 3 weeks from store-release?

There is no evidence of a drop in demand.

This is no big deal if you think of the 5C as a cheap iPhone 5, but it's pitiful for a "new" product. It was a smart move for Apple--killing off the 5, drawing a finer distinction between 5S and "the others." Side-by-side, consumers see the 5S and and the $549+ price (outside of the US) and it's pretty clear...the 5C, at that pricepoint, is no match for the 5S.

I'm sure Apple is crushed every time a customer spends more money to buy the 5S. :rolleyes:

I still remember all the MR readers googoo-gaga-ing over the 5C and saying how it would be a big hit---the rest of us (who saw through the candy shell) knew quite clearly this phone wasn't designed to be a big seller.

It sure takes some myopic vision to think that 14 million units a quarter (at the newly rumored rate) isn't considered a big seller.

For a lot of people, the closest thing people can do to even have a 5S is to go hold one at the Apple store. Many people who ordered their 5S at launch are still waiting to get them. The 5c not only had a head start for its launch, it's immediately available at any store or Apple website this minute. So, for 5S usage to be 2:1 (a number I'll have to ask you for a link)

Since I already showed you the link earlier, I didn't think it was necessary to do it again. :)
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=18118304#post18118304

with 5c usage is an indictment that the 5c is really not selling well at all.

Again, compared to what? It's probably the second best selling phone in the world!
 
Selling a plastic phone at such a high price point ... only 100$ under the top product ... nice try.
 
I don't think that is the reason...

Just out of curiosity, do you guys wear always "all black" as well? And your walls painted black, and black cars too? I am man too and personally don't mind colors, I live in a world that happen to be colored!

why people prefer phones in black or white. Speaking for myself (as an owner of a white iPhone 5) I like to wear colors. But not every day. While I can change my clothes depending on mood and/or occasion, I only have one iPhone for two years that I take out every day. So the clothes, walls, etc. comparison does not seem to fit. Cars make a better comparison. But while you are driving it, you don't see the outside color. The inside of most cars i have seen looks dull and sports colors like black, grey, brown or sand.
 
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Please.... you are all bashing at me becuase you know that I am right. just admit it!

I know the word "never"! I speak english good enough thanks you much!

The fact still stands: Steve was BY FAR the best CEO ever in a technical company of Apples caliber. Tim doesn't even come close.

Don't tell me to grow up when you can't even admit to the truth... You are all badmouthing Steve's legacy.

Oh really .. Steve's legacy like what? Mobile Me? iTunes Ping? iChat? Powercube? Cracking 3GS iPhone back case? iPhone 4 antennagate?

And how do you conclude Tim is not even close of a quality? Do you know how long Tim has been an "acting CEO" when Steve was struggling with his cancer?
Steve took occasional absent because of it and guess who's actually in charge of mighty Apple, Inc for a few last years of Steve's life?
images

Yes, maybe Tim is more of a boring person, not as fierce or ferocious, but he's much nicer person nonetheless. More humane, communicative and he even replied emails kindly. Has ever Stever done that?

Nobody badmouthing Steve. He IS an inspiring figure, YES. But saying Steve Jobs is flawless .. :eek:
 
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The iPhone 5c was always priced so as to sell customers up to the 5s. This seems to be what is happening.

If they priced the 5c too low then many customers would settle for the lower cost phone. Just to make sure Apple produced no black 5c either. Those that wanted a premium-looking phone would have to stump up for it.

On current prices, if I was in the market for a new iPhone I'd pay extra for the 5s. But I'd settle for a 5c if it was £100 less.

Apple certainly knows how to steer its customers to the products it wants to sell them at the price it wants to sell them at.
 
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Oh really .. Steve's legacy like what? Mobile Me? iTunes Ping? iChat? Powercube? Cracking 3GS iPhone back case? iPhone 4 antennagate?

And how do you conclude Tim is not even close of a quality? Do you know how long Tim has been an "acting CEO" when Steve was struggling with his cancer?
Steve took occasional absent because of it and guess who's actually in charge of mighty Apple, Inc for a few last years of Steve's life?

Yes, maybe Tim is more of a boring person, not as fierce or ferocious, but he's much nicer person nonetheless. More humane, communicative and he even replied emails kindly. Has ever Stever done that?

Nobody badmouthing Steve. He IS an inspiring figure, YES. But saying Steve Jobs is flawless .. :eek:

I can't believe what I'm reading.... traitor!
 
So it hasn't occurred to anybody that since Apple knew supplies of the 5S would be constrained at first because of yield problems with the fingerprint sensor, for one thing—we've been hearing about that for months—they decided to build a lot of 5Cs because...they could? The parts were readily available, and at least then they'd have some iPhones to sell at launch. Now that runup is over, so production has gone down.
 
I love the fact that people forgot that Apple made iPhone with plastic backs for 2 years (3G and 3GS) and no one complained it was "cheap" ...
If a tree falls in a forest and the croooow does not listen, does it make a sound? Yes, the plastic iPhones were "cheap" phones. So much that people gave each other the advice to by all means buy the black one, because than you wouldn't see the cracks so easily.

white-iphone-3g-crack-casing-cracked.jpg
 
If a tree falls in a forest and the croooow does not listen, does it make a sound? Yes, the plastic iPhones were "cheap" phones. So much that people gave each other the advice to by all means buy the black one, because than you wouldn't see the cracks so easily.


Agreed .. simple fact that plastic iPhones (3G, 3GS) is actually not just looks cheap, but also cracks and scratch here and there.

They made a good change by moving into glass back on 4 and 4S. But now 5C is going back to plastic again. They don't learn, I guess.
 
Oh really .. Steve's legacy like what? Mobile Me? iTunes Ping? iChat? Powercube? Cracking 3GS iPhone back case? iPhone 4 antennagate?

And how do you conclude Tim is not even close of a quality? Do you know how long Tim has been an "acting CEO" when Steve was struggling with his cancer?
Steve took occasional absent because of it and guess who's actually in charge of mighty Apple, Inc for a few last years of Steve's life?

Yes, maybe Tim is more of a boring person, not as fierce or ferocious, but he's much nicer person nonetheless. More humane, communicative and he even replied emails kindly. Has ever Stever done that?

Nobody badmouthing Steve. He IS an inspiring figure, YES. But saying Steve Jobs is flawless .. :eek:
you are out of your mind,Steve Jobs was a genius,he made Apple,Apple.you really think you can compare him to Tim Cook? Tim Cook is just an ordinary CEO..no different than CEO of say Sony or whatever big company.I'm not against him but denying the fact that Steve Jobs was an extra ordinary individual,a visionary and a genius is just stupid and ridiculous.

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So premium is only defined by what something looks like?
the question was wether 4s LOOKS more premium than the 5C,meaning design-wise..not tech wise...do I really need to explain more? genius?
 
you are out of your mind,Steve Jobs was a genius,he made Apple,Apple.you really think you can compare him to Tim Cook? Tim Cook is just an ordinary CEO..no different than CEO of say Sony or whatever big company.I'm not against him but denying the fact that Steve Jobs was an extra ordinary individual,a visionary and a genius is just stupid and ridiculous.

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the question was wether 4s LOOKS more premium than the 5C,meaning design-wise..not tech wise...do I really need to explain more? genius?

And was he GOD .. or perfect? Or never make mistakes during his position at Apple?

Like I said HE WAS INSPIRING, dude. Meaning I respect him, but does that mean he's flawless with his decisions?

Tim handles the bigger Apple more than Steve ever dreamed of. 5/5S/5C sell much more the 4/4S or any iPhone ever was. He did great considering the scale of iOS product logistics. He deserves a credit for being an efficient executive. Both of them good at what they're doing. And in your case that makes Tim "ordinary" CEO just as CEO of some random companies? Who's out of mind exactly?

Reading comprehension, please?

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I can't believe what I'm reading.... traitor!

Oh wow what a mature and educated response .. Nice to have a discussion with you :rolleyes:
 
They made a good change by moving into glass back on 4 and 4S. But now 5C is going back to plastic again. They don't learn, I guess.
Well this time, there is a metal structure within the 5c body to support the plastic. We will see if that helps to prevent cracks. But they left out the black option, so if it doesn't help, all the 5c will have that problem. They do learn, but by correcting their mistakes, they make new ones. The 4 and 4S were very crack and scratch resistant, but if you let them fall, with two sides of glas, no matter what side they land on, they would most likely be shattered. The iPhone 5 was initially welcomed as having only one side of glas that could be shattered. Which was supposed to mean 50% less repairs. Than scuffgate happened. Also the metal blocks antenna signals, so you need inlays made of glas.
 
Well this time, there is a metal structure within the 5c body to support the plastic. We will see if that helps to prevent cracks. But they left out the black option, so if it doesn't help, all the 5c will have that problem. They do learn, but by correcting their mistakes, they make new ones. The 4 and 4S were very crack and scratch resistant, but if you let them fall, with two sides of glas, no matter what side they land on, they would most likely be shattered. The iPhone 5 was initially welcomed as having only one side of glas that could be shattered. Which was supposed to mean 50% less repairs. Than scuffgate happened. Also the metal blocks antenna signals, so you need inlays made of glas.

True, technology is an endless loophole of problems and solutions .. 4 and 4S would be shattered easily though but at least it's durable (as long as it doesn't fall off, obviously). My 4S looks just almost the same as day 1 .. Yeah there are minors scratches here and there but considering it's almost 2 years, it looks great.

Not so much with any other iPhone though. My old 3GS looks like crap plastic toy after a year, my friend's 5 looks messed up and dented on the shiny, chamfered edge. You just can't have it all indeed. But overall I love how my 4S retain the aging over shiny Aluminum or the old plastic design.
 
Agreed .. simple fact that plastic iPhones (3G, 3GS) is actually not just looks cheap, but also cracks and scratch here and there.

They made a good change by moving into glass back on 4 and 4S. But now 5C is going back to plastic again. They don't learn, I guess.

Right, because glass never scratches or cracks or shatters!

Sheesh.
 
So, anything other than the best selling phone in the world is a failure? Tough crowd. Doesn't that mean that either the 5S or the 5C had to be a failure?


Walmart dropped the price of the 5S and 5C before they even launched. Does that make them both failures? Amazon drops the price of best sellers below cost. Does than make all best sellers failures?

Retailers compete with each other to get consumer business. When they drop prices, it's to get you to buy from them instead of their competitors.


There is no evidence of a drop in demand.



I'm sure Apple is crushed every time a customer spends more money to buy the 5S. :rolleyes:.

Speaking of myopic visions, your reading of my post is evidence of your surface intake of my statements. Read closely, but not shortsightedly: I write specifically that the 5C, when compared to other 1) "new" products 2) by Apple (and strictly Apple), the 5C has been a failure. It is NOT garnering the attention of the masses in the ways the 5S is---a quality step forward, at that---find me a time when the launch of a "new" iPhone amounted to so much competition in the race to the bottom for pricing? Tell me why Apple (on their website and on their Television ads) are promoting the 5C much more than the 5S. It is simple: The 5S on its specs, build, and quality of design sell the phone itself; the 5C was a carefully planned launch, allowing the 5S to shine with more brilliance (when juxtaposed next to the 5C) and allowing the Apple to save money manufacturing the previous generation by repacking last year's specs in a plastic shell. Had Apple continued selling the 5 at $549 retail, they would have made the visual distinction between 5S and 5 more difficult to discern. As well, introducing the plastic colorful shell saves them money on their continuing manufacture of last year's phone. Thus, Apple makes out in yet another aspect as opposed to simply continuing to sell the previous generation at a $100 cut.

The problem is, the masses, clever as they may (or may not) be, are not impressed by the 5C. It's unusual to see a so-called new Apple product (and an iPhone at that) to be so seemingly desperate for sales. The iPhone 5C scheme has not caught on---its brightest days are gone.

Living in Hong Kong, I can tell you there are 3 multi-floor Apple stores, and numerous Apple premium resellers, and the 5C is readily available, in every color, and has been for weeks. The 5S has met a completely different demand.

Apple failed to make the 5C a "new" phone:

1) it's overpriced
2) the colors/shades are not modern world universal
3) it's last year's phone
4) it is being marketed to a degree like few other Apple products have been marketed, yet the demand (worldwide) is negligible compared to PREVIOUS iPhone launches.

It may seem there's a contradiction here: That the iPhone isn't selling as well as the 5S simply because it IS last year's phone, but when has that been an Apple objective? To introduce a "new" phone, touted as "new" at release, and proven to be a weak seller in terms of other launches.

Look at the iPad Mini. Yes, it was basically iPad 2 technology released next to the current iPad 4, yet it has been a very popular release--Apple's price was reasonable for the sleeker form factor, despite its non-Retina display.

The 5C is not a "new" release, and those readers who naively proclaimed they would choose the 5C over a 5S (despite owning a 5!) have realized it wasn't worth it, and they now are ...apologetically plastic.
 
If a tree falls in a forest and the croooow does not listen, does it make a sound? Yes, the plastic iPhones were "cheap" phones. So much that people gave each other the advice to by all means buy the black one, because than you wouldn't see the cracks so easily.


I never said they did not break (I have said the iPhone 3G, which I owned, and the 3GS felt cheap compared to the 5c) or the plastic iPhone is flawless.

My point is: people did not complain the price was too high because it was plastic.

People still called the iPhone 3G and 3Gs the "best phone out there" at the time. Yes, there were complaints of the cracks (mine cracked in the same spot) but the iPhone 4 also had complaints (glass shattered, antenna did not work well, etc) and still that was called the "best phone out there"

<EDIT> I am very willing to be proven wrong. Please provide a link to a review (from a well known source, not some blog no one has heard of) of the iPhone 3G or 3GS that states the phone is over priced because of the change in material from aluminum to plastic in 2008. Or any thing that portray's the iPhone 3G/3GS build to be "cheap" (like we see now with the iPhone 5c)

Again, I never said they would not crack or break, just that people did not complain about plastic like they are doing now when the iPhone 3G came out (And that was for the newest "flagship phone" with their best technology, not the $100 sub model with older tech!)


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Steve would never have allowed this!

He never made a mistake regarding a new product, and even when he did he could stand up for it and admit the failure.

Please.... you are all bashing at me becuase you know that I am right. just admit it!

I know the word "never"! I speak english good enough thanks you much!

I am not bashing you. I am just confused because your post contradicts itself.

If someone never does something then there is no situation in which he does that same thing. (Steve Jobs never made mistake, but when he did...)

If you said "He rarely made a mistake regarding a new product, and even when he did he could stand up for it and admit the failure." then I would not have even bothered to reply.
 
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I write specifically that the 5C, when compared to other 1) "new" products 2) by Apple (and strictly Apple), the 5C has been a failure. It is NOT garnering the attention of the masses in the ways the 5S is

There's little beyond anecdotal evidence of this claim.


Tell me why Apple (on their website and on their Television ads) are promoting the 5C much more than the 5S. It is simple: The 5S on its specs, build, and quality of design sell the phone itself; the 5C was a carefully planned launch, allowing the 5S to shine with more brilliance (when juxtaposed next to the 5C) and allowing the Apple to save money manufacturing the previous generation by repacking last year's specs in a plastic shell.

Pure conjecture.


The problem is, the masses, clever as they may (or may not) be, are not impressed by the 5C. It's unusual to see a so-called new Apple product (and an iPhone at that) to be so seemingly desperate for sales. The iPhone 5C scheme has not caught on---its brightest days are gone.

More conjecture and poorly supported assumptions.


The 5S has met a completely different demand.

Again, this is an unsupported assumption.


Apple failed to make the 5C a "new" phone:

1) it's overpriced

Opinion (masquerading as fact) based on your own value rankings.

2) the colors/shades are not modern world universal

According to who?


3) it's last year's phone

Mostly but not completely. But, so what? This is nothing new.


4) it is being marketed to a degree like few other Apple products have been marketed, yet the demand (worldwide) is negligible compared to PREVIOUS iPhone launches.

Still more conjecture and unsupported assumptions.

You fit in well with the crowd who wants to rush to judgement on the success or failure of the 5C without having much beyond assumptions, conjecture and anecdotal or rumored "facts."

Nice work.

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So it hasn't occurred to anybody that since Apple knew supplies of the 5S would be constrained at first because of yield problems with the fingerprint sensor, for one thing—we've been hearing about that for months—they decided to build a lot of 5Cs because...they could? The parts were readily available, and at least then they'd have some iPhones to sell at launch. Now that runup is over, so production has gone down.

Of course not because the 5C as a failure was a foregone conclusion, so now all of the facts (and by "facts" I mean rumors, assumptions and illogical deductions) must fit that conclusion.
 
3) it's last year's phone

Mostly but not completely. But, so what? This is nothing new.

That is one item that I think could be argued. The battery, front camera, LTE and plastic back are the new items, everything else is from last year.

I guess calling it a "mostly new phone" would be accurate in terms of volume (because of how much room the battery takes up in the phone)

But calling it a "mostly year old phone" would be accurate in terms of the number of components (most of the tech carried over from the iPhone 5)

I think of it as mostly an iPhone 5, repackaged
 
That is one item that I think could be argued. The battery, front camera, LTE and plastic back are the new items, everything else is from last year.

I guess calling it a "mostly new phone" would be accurate in terms of volume (because of how much room the battery takes up in the phone)

But calling it a "mostly year old phone" would be accurate in terms of the number of components (most of the tech carried over from the iPhone 5)

I think of it as mostly an iPhone 5, repackaged

Which is pretty much what I said. But mostly vs. exactly is a reasonably important distinction. Fact is until this release all Apple ever did was keep exactly the same phone from last year and simply lower the price. Here's they've made some small improvements (and to SOME the case might be considered an improvement.) and lowered the price. The 5C is only a minor departure from previous strategy for Apple yet has garnered much hatred and criticism by the know-it-all crowd that, undoubtedly, has never produced and marketed a product in their life nor run any business and are poorly qualified to judge Apple's marketing and management skill here.
 
Which is pretty much what I said. But mostly vs. exactly is a reasonably important distinction. Fact is until this release all Apple ever did was keep exactly the same phone from last year and simply lower the price. Here's they've made some small improvements (and to SOME the case might be considered an improvement.) and lowered the price. The 5C is only a minor departure from previous strategy for Apple.

It is a major departure. Before, you could buy a premium phone for a lower price. Now you can buy a "poor" phone for the same expensive price.
 
It is a major departure. Before, you could buy a premium phone for a lower price. Now you can buy a "poor" phone for the same expensive price.

We disagree then. And our disagreement centers around your *opinion* that the 5C is not a premium phone. I find that to be a dubious opinion, but you're entitled to it of course however wrong I feel it is.

Have you also considered the possibility that Apple was unable to as profitably sell the original 5 for $100 less as one of the reasons for this minor strategic switch?
 
It is a major departure. Before, you could buy a premium phone for a lower price. Now you can buy a "poor" phone for the same expensive price.

Looks like a lot of people want to feel better about their recent purchase:

Is the $100 (on 2 year contract) a "lower price" or "the same expensive price"?

If you think that "Premium" is simply achieved by having a metal casing, then you should stop and think about things.

"Premium" (in this case) is the top of the line.

If the iPhone 4S is the "premium" Apple phone for 2011 and then in 2012 they come out with a new top of the line phone (iPhone 5) the 4S is no longer "premium" (despite being the same phone that was "premium" before)

If Apple did not create a plastic iPhone 5c and just sold the iPhone 5 for $100 (as they have done before) and you purchased an iPhone 5 after September 20th 2013, you would not be buying a "premium" phone because there is a new "premium" phone that just replaced it.
 
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