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Someone already told me that responding to you is akin to arguing with a middle schooler but I can't help it.

You seem to have forgotten that the first thing you said was "Apple will probably put a twist on NFC and call it innovation"...right?

And by your own post you're conceding that a new method or original idea is innovation right?

You still don't get it? If, by your own words, Apple "puts a twist on NFC" then it will be an innovation. Do I know what Apple is gonna do? No, how could I? I was responding to your post that Apple is going to put a twist on NFC and call it innovation. By the very definition you just posted, putting a twist on something is innovation.

Come on man...just stop...you're beginning to look like a fool and sadly you're dragging me down with you.
The fool is you....you can't even formulate a good argument...... The very definitions of the word INNOVATION prove you wrong......

Quote:
Innovation differs from improvement in that innovation refers to the notion of doing something different rather than doing the same thing better

You don't even understand the words you pin your argument on......so enlighten us...what new NFC method will Apple deploy then? There is not anything new...it has all been done before with NFC. a new payment method? By definition that is not new. Using an existing technology to do something your competitors are already doing is not innovative...but catching up.....
Again so what is Apple going to innovate with NFC?
 
Someone already told me that responding to you is akin to arguing with a middle schooler but I can't help it.

You seem to have forgotten that the first thing you said was "Apple will probably put a twist on NFC and call it innovation"...right?

And by your own post you're conceding that a new method or original idea is innovation right?

You still don't get it? If, by your own words, Apple "puts a twist on NFC" then it will be an innovation. Do I know what Apple is gonna do? No, how could I? I was responding to your post that Apple is going to put a twist on NFC and call it innovation. By the very definition you just posted, putting a twist on something is innovation.

Come on man...just stop...you're beginning to look like a fool and sadly you're dragging me down with you.

I already know what you and other people around here are going to say or have already said.

"NFC is useless. There's no need for it."

Apple announces NFC.

"Apple has totally innovated NFC. Before Apple, it was worthless and not useful. But Apple has perfected NFC and implemented it in an innovative way. Now it's really useful."

There's nothing innovative about NFC.

When Apple introduces the 4.7in screen, how are people going to spin it. Some comedian on this forum actually said "I'm sure Apple will implement the bigger screen in a way that is intuitive and functional." HAHAHA.

I already know the answer.
 
I already know what you and other people around here are going to say or have already said.

"NFC is useless. There's no need for it."

Apple announces NFC.

"Apple has totally innovated NFC. Before Apple, it was worthless and not useful. But Apple has perfected NFC and implemented it in an innovative way. Now it's really useful."

There's nothing innovative about NFC.

When Apple introduces the 4.7in screen, how are people going to spin it. Some comedian on this forum actually said "I'm sure Apple will implement the bigger screen in a way that is intuitive and functional." HAHAHA.

I already know the answer.
There were computers with a mouse before the Mac. There were portable MP3 players before the iPod. There were touchscreen phones before the iPhone. There were app stores before the AppStore. There were tablet computers before the iPad. These are all things that only a select few fanatics cared about before Apple did them. I could forgive people for thinking there are still things that are not 'done right' until Apple does it.

Then there are things that are beyond hope, like Mobile Flash, Blue Ray and NFC.
 
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I guess when the rumor mill grinds, the motto is "repeat the same thing every year, and you're bound to get it right at some point."

:p
 
If (read: bold and italic) Apple put NFC on it and used it as a normal payment method, that's fine, I won't call it innovation.

If (read: bold and italic) Apple put NFC on it and used it for something smart which never done before, which I have no clue since I am not as smart as Apple, I will call it innovation.

If (read: bold and italic) Apple turn out do not put any NFC but instead use the iBeacon technology for payment method and other functions, I will still call it innovation.

There, can we stop arguing now and move on? :D
 
Here in Belgium people mocked my iPhone for not having NFC, then when I asked if they had ever used it on their masterrace phone, they went like: "... No, but it's coming soon, so..."

To this day, I have never encountered something that supports NFC. And neither have they.

Is it the same in the States or elsewhere? Is it slowly becoming more popular? Because then it would make sense to incorporate it, as the time is (finally) ripe.

I hate putting in technology for the sake of putting in technology.
My dslr has nfc, it pairs it up with phones and tablets for remote control and viewing. Needless to say the process for apple toys currently sucks balls.
 
My dslr has nfc, it pairs it up with phones and tablets for remote control and viewing. Needless to say the process for apple toys currently sucks balls.

What model is it?

In addition to pairing, does it also support instant image sending - without having to maintain a constant Wi-Fi connection between the camera and the target device?
 
From the NFC debate here over the last year or so, it seems to me that if Apple includes it, it's good. Since Apple hasn't included it to date, it became a gimmick when others have. :eek:

Life tip - don't use MacRumors debates as a yard stick for ANYTHING.

Fanboys and haters arguing is what I get from most of the comments these days. It's a shame it wasn't always like this, but it just a side effect of success - both Apple's and MacRumors'.

There are still good contributors, but it's getting harder and harder to see the useful posts amongst all the nonsense.

NFC is interesting though (to me anyway). I try to borrow and use Android phones (and Windows Phone) from time to time to see how the alternatives to the iPhones are doing. As much as I'd like to try, NFC is still something I've not been able to use in the wild. Does that make the tech a gimmick? No, but perhaps ahead of its time in the UK. Having said that, from what I hear in Japan it would be very useful as NFC is widely adopted.

But that then goes back to Apple's business model - they focus on 1 phone that they release globally every year - they need to prioritise features that they feel would add the most value, that they can achieve from a technical standpoint etc. Regardless of what the 'genius' minds on MacRumors think, it is a good technology even before Apple add it. I'm pretty sure (hopeful) Apple will release something to do with payments in the next few years, who knows what their implementation will be but I hope it helps speed up adoption of the tech in my country if/when if finally drops. Phil Schillers comments back in 2012 show that Apple have definitely looked at NFC, and that's a positive.
 
I already know what you and other people around here are going to say or have already said.

"NFC is useless. There's no need for it."

Apple announces NFC.

"Apple has totally innovated NFC. Before Apple, it was worthless and not useful. But Apple has perfected NFC and implemented it in an innovative way. Now it's really useful."

There's nothing innovative about NFC.

When Apple introduces the 4.7in screen, how are people going to spin it. Some comedian on this forum actually said "I'm sure Apple will implement the bigger screen in a way that is intuitive and functional." HAHAHA.

I already know the answer.

Yeah, wrong. Nfc is useless. Period. There's no qualifiers to that. It's a useless technology.

Now what's going to happen when/if apple adds it to the iPhone (which is unlikely because apple is not really about useless technology)? but if for some reason they do add it, its going to become mainstream. Period. You know it, I know it, no point in being in denial about it. The only way nfc will ever get any legs is if apple does it.

And I already know what you and others like you will say when apple makes it mainstream: "LOL, I've had nfc on my phone since 2011!!! way to catch up apple!"

Nfc is useless, but for your sake you better hope apple does include it so youre actually able to use it everywhere and not just at the gas station.

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The fool is you....you can't even formulate a good argument...... The very definitions of the word INNOVATION prove you wrong......



You don't even understand the words you pin your argument on......so enlighten us...what new NFC method will Apple deploy then? There is not anything new...it has all been done before with NFC. a new payment method? By definition that is not new. Using an existing technology to do something your competitors are already doing is not innovative...but catching up.....
Again so what is Apple going to innovate with NFC?

Goodness man. I'm not the one who said they'd do something new! You did. Holy crap. You said all apple will do is put a new twist on nfc and call it innovation.

Seriously stop moving the goal posts. You do not know what the definition of innovation is and now you're trying very hard to change what you said.

Your first post in this idiotic back and forth was "apple will put their own twist on nfc and call it innovation" and now youre asking me what twist theyll put? Do you make any sense? Heck I'm not even the only one that told you you are wrong. at least three others quoted your same post and said the same thing.

I just looked back and you even said "now apple will put a NEW twist on nfc and call it innovation"

Listen, I get youre in to deep to back out ofthis argument especially since youre posting definitions that prove you wrong, but please stop. I wont be responding to you again.
 
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Has it been updated to 7.1.1? Mine's been rock solid since this update. If you have, you should backup and then restore as a new phone using your backup. I fixed a few phones with issues that way and they haven't had problems since.

Yeah, I'm on 7.1.1 (11D201). But thanks for the tip, I will try to restore it over the weekend. Fingers crossed. :)
 
I personally hope it's true. If it meant only having to remember my phone instead of my oyster card (london underground travel), credit and debit cards, then it would be great.
 
But the Ventra rollout was a disaster and lots of people were complaining about being double-charged for rides because the system picked up both the cards and their NFC-equipped phones and payment wands.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, in my opinion. I too heard the stories of people putting multiple RFID cards against the Ventra readers, and the readers picked up more than one card. Sure, it was probably an oversight to not set an exclusion window of 2-5 seconds for people doing this. People adapted pretty quickly by only trying to use one card. I don't expect to hear everyone reporting on all the times the readers worked as expected. Personally, I don't consider "one time I got charged an extra $2.25 because I mashed all the cards I had on me against the turnstile reader" a disaster. Did you ever get double charged?
 
Nfc

NFC works like a charm on Google Nexus 4 and 5 in upstate NY. Supported at most grocery stores, gas stations, and many other places. I don't find that it takes any more or less time than swiping a card except that I don't have to sign most times.One downside is that a network connection is required for the NFC to work properly (and as many grocery stores are metal construction, occasionally this prevents quick authentication to the provider.) I'm happy with it - and use programmable NFC chips to set and unset features on my device (e.g. turn on / off wifi, bluetooth, set alarms before bed, etc - simply bump the programmed NFC and the phone does my bidding.) The wireless charging is a bit finicky - I have an Owl car charger that worked great for my Nexus 4, but the receiver coil on the Nexus 5 is in a slightly different position and the charger is not as reliable as plugging in. The Qi pads work great though. Bottom line: if I didn't have NFC I'd continue to use CCs. (kind of like if I didn't have a car I'd ride a bike or take public transit. Can live without it without too much trouble, but having it is really nice.)
Chip and pin is probably a bit safer, but having the NFC is handy and convenient. Whee!
 
I think the reasons why we may finally see NFC on the iPhone are:

1. Apple is finding out the hard way nobody wants to build a mobile payment system based off Bluetooth 4.0 (LE). We have yet to hear any manufacturer of point-of-sale (POS) terminals building a POS terminal that communicates with a cellphone through Bluetooth 4.0. Besides, there are potentially serious security risks with mobile payments through Bluetooth 4.0, since the range of Bluetooth 4.0 is a fairly long distance compared to the 30-40 mm of NFC.

2. Japanese and South Korea cellphone carriers are prodding Apple to finally incorporate NFC on the iPhone, since NFC mobile payments via cellphone are very common in these two countries.

3. The deal with China UnionPay means a HUGE market for mobile payments via NFC.

4. It also means the ISIS mobile payment system planned for the USA now becomes really viable, since ending the last holdout--Apple--will finally mean everyone will be on board a single NFC mobile payment system. It also means public transit companies in the USA can now finally plan for the day when commuters will "tap" their cellphones on NFC terminals before getting onto buses, subways, trains, and ferries just like do in Japan with the Suica and Pasmo systems.

5. Thanks to modern technology, NFC and Bluetooth 4.0 could share the same antenna subsystem on the iPhone 6, so this will not affect the thickness of the phone.
 
I think the reasons why we may finally see NFC on the iPhone are:

1. Apple is finding out the hard way nobody wants to build a mobile payment system based off Bluetooth 4.0 (LE).
What about PayPal? Not just some random nobody in payment land.

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5. Thanks to modern technology, NFC and Bluetooth 4.0 could share the same antenna subsystem on the iPhone 6, so this will not affect the thickness of the phone.
I wonder about this. NFC is 13.56 MHz, bluetooth is 2400–2483.5 MHz. Also NFC would typically be expected to talk to a card and therefore power the card. Combining this sounds like a major hassle.

Also, I wonder if Apple would be upgrading their EasyPay POS in their stores to iPhone5s in a sled that adds RFID, if iPhone6 would do RFID on its own.
 
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At last, after 2-3 years, the camera industry seems to have embraced NFC. All high(er)-end models that have Wi-Fi also have NFC (except for some - for example, the Panasonic GM1 - that just couldn't incorporate it for size reasons). I really really doubt the same will happen to a proprietary technology (Apple's iBeacon). At least not in the next 2-3 years – again, camera manufacturers have traditionally been pretty slow at incorporating wireless technologies in their cameras.

NFC works just great and is a godsend for very fast, tap-less and seamless image transfers. Because of my absolutely great experience with NFC, my next enthusiast higher-end camera will surely be an NFC-capable one (the Sony A6000, unless it gets a bad review from DPReview).

Just an example on how easier it is compared to other techniques: when not having any of my dedicated cameras around, I currently shoot with the Nokia PureView 808. (The best cameraphone even now.) As it only has a small 4" screen, it's not really suited for reviewing images, particularly not when I also have the wife around. Fortunately, the 808 supports not only true Bluetooth, but also NFC. If I also have the NFC-enabled (and pretty decent) Nexus 7 2013 around, I can transfer the image to it in no time, with VERY little effort. All this without having to run any dedicated apps on either devices or even having to be in constant Wi-Fi connection with them (as is required by several Wi-Fi cameras not using NFC for quick image transfers.)

I only need to either go to the review mode from the camera app after taking a shot (one tap) or fire up the stock Gallery app and select the image I want to transfer. Then, just bump the two devices together and the transfer immediately starts without any more human interaction. Finally, after the transfer finishes, I just drag down the history menu and tap the “Beam complete – Touch to view” menu item, followed by selecting the app (one tap) to view the image. That's one tap on the 808 (sender) after shooting an image and two taps on the N7 (receiver) to display it.

What does happen without NFC but I can still use Bluetooth - for example, with a jailbroken iDevice with the absolutely essential AirBlue Sharing JB app installed? A LOT more tapping is needed:
- on the sender (808), tap the image to display the menu, select the menu, select Send, select Via Bluetooth, select target device. That's five taps (and also an additional one if you want to get to the image review screen after shooting it – just like with the NFC case).
- on the receiver iDevice, first, activate the receive mode of AirBlue Sharing. If you haven't defined any Activator action for this, this means the following taps: 1, tap the AirBlue Sharing icon, 2, tap Enable Receiving in the menu on the left. Then, after the sender discovers the iDevice and requests transfer, allow the transfer on the iDevice. (Fortunately, if you select Accept All, you won't need to do this during subsequent transfers.) Then, assuming you enable automatic Camera Roll import, tap the “Imported to Camera Roll” message. The latter will only start the Photos app but won't take you directly to the just-imported image; not even into the Camera Roll album. You need to open it manually and, then, scroll to the end to find the just-received images. Those are another taps.

Finally, as opposed to just NFC'ing the images to an Android device, sending a photo to an iDevice using AirBlue Sharing has another downside: the current (1.4.50) version of AirBlue Sharing doesn't transfer the EXIF data of the image when saving the received file to the Camera Roll. (No such problem on Android – there, the full EXIF data remains accessible in the stock Gallery app after transfer.) (Incidentally, I'll talk to the dev of AirBlue Sharing on this matter. I've implemented both full EXIF metadata saving and also location + compass saving in my own camera-related AppStore apps. Saving this info is pretty easy in iOS when exporting images to the Camera Roll.)

See how much easier it is to transfer images if you can use NFC?

EDIT: with iOS and Wi-Fi enabled cameras, as I've also (quickly) mentioned, you can use third-party iOS apps released by the camera manufacturers to allow for file transfers involving much fewer taps. These apps, in most cases, maintain constant Wi-Fi connections between the iDevice and the camera. This, as you may have already guessed, result in a substandard battery life, particularly on the camera (most Wi-Fi cameras suffer from this problem). NFC is much better in this respect too as it doesn't need a constant Wi-Fi connection - it (re)creates the connection only when you bump the two devices together and immediately stops it after finishing the transfer to save battery life.

But you miss a point, only a few industries using NFC. Me and my friends STILL using Bluetooth for file transfer, even the ones who have NFC. Using a phone with NFC as a wallet would be good, but again, only a few stores using it. NFC has a good potential but why should Apple use it? They can use iBeacon and AirDrop to create more reasons to buy an iDevice, that market is underperforming and has a good potential, Apple has always been good in entering that kind of markets, remember iPhone, iPod and iPad?
 
But you miss a point, only a few industries using NFC. Me and my friends STILL using Bluetooth for file transfer, even the ones who have NFC. Using a phone with NFC as a wallet would be good, but again, only a few stores using it. NFC has a good potential but why should Apple use it? They can use iBeacon and AirDrop to create more reasons to buy an iDevice, that market is underperforming and has a good potential, Apple has always been good in entering that kind of markets, remember iPhone, iPod and iPad?

For me, who shoots a LOT and would prefer to share his pics as quickly and easily as possible, NFC has turned out to be the best and most elegant solution. Between my Nokia 808 (my main P&S camera) and my Nexus 7 2013, it only takes VERY few taps to transfer an image for a quick review.

Other techniques would

- either involve MANY more taps (e.g., Bluetooth OBEX to, say, a jailbroken iDevice)

- or involve having to maintain a constant Wi-Fi network between the two devices, resulting in some major battery drain.
 
I have NFC on my Note 3 (that I love) but it's just a completely pointless figure. I've used it to pay and found it more cumbersome than just grabbing my wallet.
 
I have NFC on my Note 3 (that I love) but it's just a completely pointless figure. I've used it to pay and found it more cumbersome than just grabbing my wallet.

Thats what Apple mean when they say that NFC doesnt improve anything. Reaching out your wallet is just like reaching out your phone and If you are out of battery you are without money so there are huge downsides in this technology. There are bank cards that work just like NFC and they look just like the same old plastics we are used to.
 
If this comes to the iPhone then great, personally I can't see it myself because of Apple's focus on Bluetooth LTE and their resistance to use NFC before now.

For payments I think NFC is better because it has a lower range, meaning it's less likely someone else will be billed for someone else's purchase (assuming you won't need to use extra security measures like your finger print). Also most card readers already have NFC even if it isn't turned on, it would take a new generation of card readers to have Bluetooth LTE.

iBeacon will be great for internal directions, museums, offers etc but probably not for payments. It will be interesting to see where Apple goes with this.
 
iBeacon will be great for internal directions, museums, offers etc but probably not for payments. It will be interesting to see where Apple goes with this.

And, again, it won't work together with better cameras out there for quick image / video sharing. Which is just GREAT not only with cameraphones like the Nokia 808, but also the Sony RX100 MkII / MkIII. (The latter also support instant sharing initiated by NFC.)
 
Thats what Apple mean when they say that NFC doesnt improve anything. Reaching out your wallet is just like reaching out your phone

Not to people with wallets deep inside purses :)

and If you are out of battery you are without money so there are huge downsides in this technology.

That's not yet a "huge" downside, since you likely still have cash and cards as backup.

Right now NFC is just another OPTIONAL payment method. Perhaps one day we'll be able to keep our driver's license on our phones as well, and then we might finally get rid of wallets. At that time, battery life becomes a real issue for lots of things.
 
At that time, battery life becomes a real issue for lots of things.

Not if the data is written to a chip that can be powered (via induction) by whatever device is being used to read it. You could remove the battery altogether and the data would still be useable.
 
What are you using as your payment app of choice?

here in Canada as you noted NFC terminals are just about everywhere now! anyone who has a Chip+Pin setup also generally has NFC setup as well.

For any purchases < $50, i just use the tap feature directly on the credit card. I haven't yet found an App to allow me to use NFC on my phone for payments, Though I would love to.

Here ya go:
http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/produc...tronic-banking/ways-to-pay/mobile-payment.jsp

If you're on Android (they do Blackberry too) check your device is supported, see the apps Google Play page for a list. You might need to get a new sim from your provider too. They always know how to get another $10 out of you in Canada. Why is the price of cheese so high? And buy Canadian whisky in the USA for half the price, what is with that!. Oh well, at least we have NFC!
 
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