Apple Reportedly Lays Off 40 Final Cut Employees

[LethalWolfe]

Avid is the #1 editing platform in the world, with offerings on Mac and PC. FCP is close second. Adobe, well, adobe has no part in the professional editing world. Never did. It's very cute that consumers have heard of it because Adobe makes a good number of products that consumers have heard of, but there isn't any professional Premiere ediitng going on. The occasional in house corporate office run by a one man team perhaps.

It's poor form to be condescending and it's embarrassing to be condescending when you are wrong.

I'd really like you to meet up w/the guys from Bandito Brothers and tell them they aren't professionals. Or maybe visit one of the TV stations owned by Hearst Television and inform everyone there that they don't do any professional work. Stu Maschwitz has VFX credits for films like "The Spirit", "Iron Man", and "Grindhouse", but he's also a big fan of Premiere Pro so into the unprofessional category he goes as well? The difference between professional and not has very little to do w/the tools used.

I always get a kick out of FCP users/supporters snubbing their noses at 'lesser apps' when FCP was considered a lesser app not that many years ago (and still is considered a lesser app by many today).


Lethal

 

[robotartfashion]

I didn't say students, did I? And I wasn't talking about students, or people who couldn't afford it or didn't need another license anyway. I was talking about two small production companies that I have worked with in the past... hence my frustration.

That said, I still think wrong is wrong. I purchased it back when I was a student. The academic prices are very low, and are nothing compared to the cost of tuition, books, etc.

I'm not sure if you've noticed but the "academic price" is $899 as opposed to the $999 for the non-academic version and unfortunately is not upgradeable to future versions.

Not advocating piracy just wanted to make sure you were up on the "student" pricing.

 

[-=XX=-Nephilim]

Well, it makes sense...

Apple is now mobile company - and as we know - you cant really edit your videos in professional way on the iPhone - so screw it...

Fire them all and focus on HTML version of Pong for the iPad!

This is the future!

 

[Eddyisgreat]

In this economy..sickening. For a company that posts ZOMG EPIC PROF!T$$$ year after year you think they could atleast throw a couple thou to the FC units across the nation and show a little love. Lay them off when Adobe or Avid is hiring.

I hate FC anyway, but that's not the point. I love Color though. I think it's great.

 

[SuperBrown]

The difference between professional and not has very little to do w/the tools used.

Agreed. I work in the television industry and most pros are well versed in several apps and know full well the strengths and weaknesses of each, and of course, have their own preferences. In college we cut our teeth in Media 100. I now work regularly, and prefer, Avid. However, more and more productions use FCP to cut costs. If I want to STAY a working pro, you better believe the tool doesn't matter as much as how well versed I am in it.

 

[naman34]

look at it the other way.

Apple is not going to stop making computers. They just released snow leopard, which is basically preparation to do huge things in the future. They may stop making desktops, but they are going to keep making computers, and they don't want to get rid of desktops, they want to make it smaller and smaller, like the imac.
OK importantly, proapps, aren't going anywhere. Logic just went 64bit, final cut is essentially their only app based on carbon now, hence its not 64 bit yet. It needs to be re-written in cocoa, to make it 64-bit. So they are probably re-writing it right now. And the reason final cut hasn't had got good upgrades is probably because they are busy re-writing it. They could just not upgrade it at all otherwise. They wouldn't have bought color otherwise. The developers they sacked are probably carbon developers, who don't know cocoa, so they are basically useless for apple now. So probably, final cut in 64 bit cocoa is almost done, and so they don't need carbon based final cut developers anymore..

 

[Mac Kiwi]

Apple are only to aware many users will jump ship if the pro apps lag to much. The same goes for the hardware.


Maybe things will go back to something resembling normal in updates,seeing as ipad has been released.

 

[MMX]

Some of you are really out of your minds. Maybe it's not Apple Computer Inc., but Mac is still the centre of everything and Pro applications aren't goning anywhere. This just pure speculation based on nothing but rumors. They are regrouping teams and moving some resources to other projects.

 

[tkatz]

Pixar uses Avid for editing. They always have.

They use a bunch of other software for animation, much of it proprietary.

A big one for animation is Renderman

https://renderman.pixar.com/

 

[guzhogi]

That's sad. I agree, Apple's becoming less & less a company for high end, Pro (as in Mac Pros, & Xserves) computers & more for mobility appliances like iPad & iPhone. Before this whole iPhone thing, Apple seemed a lot more interested in their computers than they do now. Heck, Apple even removed "Computer" from its name. Sad, just sad.

 

[ps45]

I agree this does appear to confirm a strategic move away from the Pro segment.

Unfortunately, even though this may make sense from an immediate 'bottom line' perspective, I fear it may be detrimental in the long run, as a lot of Apple's prestige and heritage comes from its positioning in the Pro area and the 'Liberal Arts'.

If so this might end up being a classic case study at business schools a few years down the line. The consumer gadgetry market is fickle, very fickle, yet the Pro area is a bedrock, even if it provides less cash flow.

 

[jrlcopy]

Yes there's AVID but I haven't heard much about that recently, the last time I used it it was a mess compared to the competition... But I really don't know! Yeah at least Adobe is ahead of things, Premiere is modern, it's just realllllly not CPU efficient for the Mac. I mean even scrolling the list of filters is as slow as hell, it's unusable! Adobe loves to port their apps to the Mac, resulting in a mess...

I will admit I'm a total Avid Fanboy over FCP anyday, and have the reasons to back it up. But I have yet to encounter a broadcast tv show or film that is being done on FCP, and the ones that were, "Ellen" for example have jumped ship and went right back to Avid just a few months ago.

Companies tried switching to FCP to cut costs ultimately to learn that they end up spending just as much because of the additional rendering/file sharing/merging projects time.

The biggest reason people leave FCP and think that FCP 'could be dying' is just the lack of updates and bug fixes, Premiere/Avid all ship updates/bug fixes once every other month at least, FCP does maybe once a year. The industry changes so much in a couple months, new formats, new files, etc. Other companies Adobe/Avid are more open with what changes they are making while Apple is a locked box and only what they say goes.

But the main thing is, OMG, the rendering.. It just isn't a fast system if I have to render every little thing... FCP can't do more than 6-8 streams of audio without rendering?!! WTF.. FCP needs to render a color effect when all I'm doing is lowering the saturation?!!

Eh, either way, FCP becoming popular with customers caused the other companies to work hard and improve their software, so I'm happy for that.

 

[dmcaudio]

FCP is not going anywhere

Being in the Audio/Video industry, I can attest that Macs nor FCP are going anywhere. FCP is still gaining huge momentum because on a local machine it can do about 95% of what Avid's Media Composer can do (though MC is FAR superior in multicomputer environments and render farms). Avid's ProTools is still the king of audio (and has been for decades) and that runs best on Mac as well. Soundtrack is a joke in comparison.

Most big studios always have and probably always will use Media Composer for their bigger budget pictures. Smaller studios or smaller budget pictures will use FCP. VERY few pro studios use Premier Pro (regardless of platform) or *cringes* Sony's Vegas Pro, unless for one reason or another they don't have money or prefer Windows-based machines. Even then they could still use Avid.

Linux is principally used in the AV world for render farms or homebrew software. The only publicly available AV apps are pathetic in comparison to their PC/Mac counterparts.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I will admit I'm a total Avid Fanboy over FCP anyday, and have the reasons to back it up. But I have yet to encounter a broadcast tv show or film that is being done on FCP, and the ones that were, "Ellen" for example have jumped ship and went right back to Avid just a few months ago.

I think you might want to get your editing news from places besides Avid.com.

20th Century FOX switched to cutting all their films on FCP 2 or 3 years ago. The last 2 or 3 Coen Brothers films were cut on FCP and Walter Murch has done a few films on FCP as well. As far as TV goes, Pie Town Productions (which does about 500-600 episodes of realityTV a year) is all FCP, Bunim/Murray is all FCP, the BBC and CNN are using it extensively, "Scrubs" is FCP, "GameTrailersTV" is FCP, "Leverage" is FCP, etc.,.


Lethal

 

[nuckinfutz]

That's sad. I agree, Apple's becoming less & less a company for high end, Pro (as in Mac Pros, & Xserves) computers & more for mobility appliances like iPad & iPhone. Before this whole iPhone thing, Apple seemed a lot more interested in their computers than they do now. Heck, Apple even removed "Computer" from its name. Sad, just sad.

FUD. Apple still sells Xeon based Xserves and Mac Pro. They still have the same complement of desktop and notebook computers than they had 6 years ago and probably more because of the Macbook Air. Logic doesn't support your statement. Clearly they care about their Mac lineup as much as anything else.

I agree this does appear to confirm a strategic move away from the Pro segment.

Unfortunately, even though this may make sense from an immediate 'bottom line' perspective, I fear it may be detrimental in the long run, as a lot of Apple's prestige and heritage comes from its positioning in the Pro area and the 'Liberal Arts'.

If so this might end up being a classic case study at business schools a few years down the line. The consumer gadgetry market is fickle, very fickle, yet the Pro area is a bedrock, even if it provides less cash flow.

You've made a leap to a conclusion that has no logical basis. Apple just delivered a 64-bit upgrade to Aperture which followed a 64-bit upgrade to Logic Studio. So a majority of Apple's Pro Apps are now 64-bit which means they had to remove tons of Carbon code. Final Cut Studio would clearly the the most ambitious update yet because Apple lays off 40 people suddenly their committment to their Pro Apps comes into question.

Maybe maybe "i'm" just not getting it.

Someone please explain to me how Apple is moving away from Pro's by updating two of their Pro apps to new 64-bit versions? Or why they would develop technology like OpenCL and Grand Central Dispatch?

Come on guys ...use your heads.

 

[surferfromuk]

I think Apple need to release a PR statement on this one.

1st they dump Shake and now they're cutting into FCP...say what you like, it's smoke on the horizon...

It would be a disaster if 30% of movie professionals got the jitters and went to get a copy of Avid over this. Kind of thing that can destroy forward momentum...

 

[studiomusic]

Even though I only support piracy for kids and college people pretty much who don't have money yet, but hopefully when they get jobs they won't pirate as much anymore, I still think it's a pretty stupid idea to have to buy a thousand dollar software, multiplied by for every computer you own, it's really useless as you own your computers and the software.

Now if it was you getting 1 software, installing on your computer then giving it to your friends I can see why it would be bad (but tbh people need to not get butthurt over piracy, their life is not over) since it's for someone else who didn't even pay, but you paid for your software so you use it on your computer(s).

You can legally install and run it on one desktop and one laptop. So 2 computers at a time. If you need more than a desktop and a laptop to run it, you need another license no?

 

[nuckinfutz]

I think Apple need to release a PR statement on this one.

1st they dump Shake and now they're cutting into FCP...say what you like, it's smoke on the horizon...

It would be a disaster if 30% of movie professionals got the jitters and went to get a copy of Avid over this. Kind of thing that can destroy forward momentum...

I agree:

Apple

"Dear morons....yes we're still developing Final Cut Studio. Have a nice day"

Apple Inc
All rights reserved

 

[surferfromuk]

I agree:

Apple

"Dear morons....yes we're still developing Final Cut Studio. Have a nice day"

Apple Inc
All rights reserved

I don't think there was any need to be so rude.

Are you a film maker? Is your productivity invested in FCP?

I ask the questions though I can't say I even relish the answers - laced as they will be with veiled insults and your own sardonic wit.

Put simply, you don't know what Apple is doing with FCP so don't make ludicrous and offensive judgements about everyone.

 

[snowboarder]

Apple gave up on Pro Apps a while ago

There was still hope when they were hiring people to their Santa Monica
office to work on Phenomenon - Shake replacement/Flame competitor.
It was pretty clear it was going nowhere when Ron Brinkmann left Apple
and joined The Foundry to work on Nuke 2 years ago.
His words:

http://twitter.com/ronbrinkmann/status/2943137747
"Always been a bit amazed/amused that people continued to hope for a Shake replacement from Apple. Maybe, finally, they'll accept reality "

and:


Ron's ronbrinkmann Says:
February 23, 2008 at 5:53 pm
I really can’t say much about where Apple may or may not be going with future products. Although the fact that I decided it was time to move on might be a reasonable clue as to my confidence level that any alleged ‘next generation’ tool will be focused on the market (high end vfx and animation) that I’m interested in… And why I’m now working with The Foundry on Nuke…


one more thing Ron posted on appleinsider when Shake got killed:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showpost.php?p=1457213&postcount=44

I'm actually pretty surprised that this is even news. Shake was discontinued years ago and a good chunk of the team (myself included) have long since moved on. Apple doesn't build products for high end niche markets... the support requirements alone make it uninteresting to them. As for 'Phenomenon', I believe it's hanging out with the Yeti in Area 51...


Now Apple is letting go some key people from the Motion and FCP department.


If anyone still believes Apple cares about anything but iPhone
is simple dreaming

 

[blkraemer]

Adobe, well, adobe has no part in the professional editing world.

False. CS4 is one of the first desktop products to support .R3D workflow native. It also has the ability to seamlessly port sequences between premiere and AfterEffects... the #1 desktop motion graphics application in the world.

If your going to present things as fact... make sure they are.

 

[nuckinfutz]

It wouldn't really matter if I was a film maker or not. The astonishing lack of intelligence or logic in some of the FUD posts is bordering on comical.

Final Cut Studio is Apple's largest Pro app. When Apple decided "not" to do a 64-bit Carbon version it meant that even they had to take their apps and remove the legacy Carbon 32-bit and move to Cocoa 64-bit. So they've been systematically upgrading their apps. First was Logic and last week Aperature become the next app to migrate over to 64-bit Cocoa.

I view the layoffs as a positive thing (for Final Cut Studio) it likely means that the QA testing and porting has gone well and now they do not need the extra bodies.

It's rumored that the core OS X team is roughly a hundred developers strong. These are the guys and gals doing the heavy coding and creation from the kernel up to the GUI. So in comparison one could "reasonably" presume that the 40 people let go from the Final Cut Studio project were not just engineers as it's unlikely that a video editing suite would have that many engineers working on it (too many Chefs in the kitchen).

So again ...I'm failing to see how this means Apple's committment to Pro apps or Pro users is lessening considering they've updated most of their apps.

Some of us don't suffer fools gladly.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Now Apple is letting go some key people from the Motion and FCP department.


If anyone still believes Apple cares about anything but iPhone
is simple dreaming

What key people have been let go. Can we get some names?

 

[WeegieMac]

Hopefully that doesn't mean that Final Cut sales are slowing. So many annoying people pirate it instead of paying.

See, that's the thing about Final Cut Pro that I've never understood.

The people who, generally speaking, need Final Cut are video editing professionals. 99% of video editing pro's use power machines, like Mac Pro's.

If you work in that industry you're well paid and your equipment including computers cost a lot of money, so why pirate a copy of Final Cut Pro?

I can't imagine every day casual Mac users downloading it illegally, I mean that makes as much sense as a switcher who used Paint on his PC for the odd picture, illegally downloading PhotoShop CS4!

 

[blkraemer]

I view the layoffs as a positive thing (for Final Cut Studio) it likely means that the QA testing and porting has gone well and now they do not need the extra bodies.

Agreed, 64-bit FCS to be released at NAB?

I know I was dismayed when FCS-3 came out a month a head of Snow Leopard, and had hoped a 64-bit version would follow shortly after. Seems there has been enough time to complete a kernel up rebuild?