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Populus

macrumors 603
Aug 24, 2012
5,764
8,223
Spain, Europe
If the difference between N3B and N3E is similar to the difference between N5 and N5P, then we can expect a performance increase like the one between the A14 and A15, it is there but it’s not a big deal, and what makes the A15 much more power efficient is the new architecture for the efficiency cores, and the media engine, and the larger caches.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,154
7,196
Seattle
If the difference between N3B and N3E is similar to the difference between N5 and N5P, then we can expect a performance increase like the one between the A14 and A15, it is there but it’s not a big deal, and what makes the A15 much more power efficient is the new architecture for the efficiency cores, and the media engine, and the larger caches.
for all the sturn und drang over this announcement, no one has quantified the differences between N3B and N3E. While there will surely be production differences for TSMC, it’s not clear that anyone will see a substantial difference when using one of these SOCs.
 
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smulji

macrumors 68030
Feb 21, 2011
2,975
2,863
N3B is a one off and won't exist after Fall of 2023 with N3P following and replacing it and N3E.


Even more exciting in 2025 is Nanosheets to completely replace FinFET.

Very informative video from TSMC: https://n2.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/N2.htm

Press release with what's coming and all the specifics: https://pr.tsmc.com/english/news/3021

Nanosheets fully unifies all nodes, for all application spaces to use it alone. That should reduce TSMC's costs tremendously, along with vendors.
If N3B is a one-off why go through the cost and trouble of utilizing it then?
 

Da_Hood

macrumors regular
Apr 18, 2017
204
206
Australia
No. A17 is stop-gap chip. With A18 we will start seeing the capabilities of 3nm.
You are confused. A16 was a stop gap chip.
A17 has full 3nm capability.
The 3E may need to be renamed A17 Fusion if the performance difference is that great. However from the available information, seems package size increases due to lower density.
Rare misstep from TSMC would have provided valuable knowledge for future 3nm processes.
 

bgillander

macrumors 6502a
Jul 14, 2007
951
949
If N3B is a one-off why go through the cost and trouble of utilizing it then?
You can be sure that it was not originally designed to be a one off, but, as good as the tools and simulations might be now, actual production often ends up turning out not exactly as planned. So they redesigned the newer process to work around the issues they discovered. Technology is a moving target and this is the best they could produce at that point in time. It’s like asking why Apple would make the iPhone 15 when the iPhone 16 is going to come out after.
 

bgillander

macrumors 6502a
Jul 14, 2007
951
949
This whole thread is kind of funny. People used to complain because Apple was always late implementing Intel chips (or IBM, or Motorola), and now some are complaining because Apple is actually designing their own chips and paying enough to be the first with access to new processes from a cutting edge chip foundry. As issues go, this is a much better one!
 

BorisDG

macrumors 6502
Sep 28, 2021
476
800
Bulgaria, EU
You are confused. A16 was a stop gap chip.
A17 has full 3nm capability.
The 3E may need to be renamed A17 Fusion if the performance difference is that great. However from the available information, seems package size increases due to lower density.
Rare misstep from TSMC would have provided valuable knowledge for future 3nm processes.
A16 wasn't stop gap either, because at least the tech "N4P" was used widely by anyone + the chip itself did many things differently if you dig deeply. Meanwhile N3B will be one time use only, just by Apple and forgotten forever.
 

_Spinn_

macrumors 601
Nov 6, 2020
4,857
10,045
Wisconsin
I hope people are paying attention. Every company is prepping for a recession. And when even Apple takes action, you know it’s all but a certainty what’s coming.

Strap up. This time, businesses and Wall Street will feel the pain, and us consumers and retail investors will come out ahead. If we prepare.
Yeah I fear things are going to be very rough.
 

FriendlyMackle

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2011
920
802
NYC
Yeah I fear things are going to be very rough.
On the other hand…various financial markets people are always predicting a recession/depression/apocalypse(!)-for-us. Sure, eventually, some/one of them will be right, because, yeah, someday we will have a slowdown. That’s in the nature of our economies. And there are people who would like to see a recession/crash, because it’s a ‘buying opportunity.’ Meaning when people lose their businesses or homes, assets can be bought at far less than they’re worth. And, our last recession (2008-11) was made by the actual financial market ‘leaders.’ They somehow forgot what Junk Bonds were back in the 80’s and revamped them for the real estate/mortgage debt markets.
 
Apple A17 Chip stats.

IMG_7843.jpeg
 

DailySlow

macrumors 6502a
Aug 5, 2015
848
416
NOVA
View attachment 2222512 I love it. The very first response (SenttoSchool) lays out why N3B was never long for this world as TSMC is completely abandoning it after finding issues with yields. It’s the reason why TSMC introduced N3E in the first place.

Apple will likely be the ONLY high volume purchaser of N3B, so it makes no sense from either TSMC or Apple’s business plans to continue that fab process, it will die.

THAT is the reason for the switch. This being MR however, the hot takes about greed, Tim Cook, shareholders, etc have to take their moment.

TSMC is winding down N3B in the future, NOBODY will be able to use it.

For those interested in the topic:
This is a good breakdown on the added 3B cost (80%?) for a moderate performance increase vs 3E 36% cost increase at virtually the same performance level. I THINK I got that right LOL. Thanks for the link!
 
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VArase

macrumors regular
Feb 1, 2008
114
60
Chicagoland
The rumor comes from a Weibo user who claims to be an integrated circuit expert with 25 years of experience working on Intel's Pentium processors. Earlier this year, they were first to claim that the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Pro's USB-C port and accompanying charging cables will feature a Lightning-like authenticator chip, potentially limiting their functionality with Apple-unapproved accessories — a rumor that went on to be corroborated by more established sources. They were also first to say that the standard iPhone 14 models would retain the A15 Bionic chip, with the A16 being exclusive to the iPhone 14 Pro models.

Article Link: Apple Reportedly Planning to Switch Technology Behind A17 Bionic Chip to Cut Costs Next Year
May have been corroborated by other sources, but they were all wrong - the USB-C port isn't hobbled in any way.
 
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Joe Jackson

macrumors newbie
Dec 8, 2020
18
18
I hope people are paying attention. Every company is prepping for a recession. And when even Apple takes action, you know it’s all but a certainty what’s coming.

Strap up. This time, businesses and Wall Street will feel the pain, and us consumers and retail investors will come out ahead. If we prepare.
How can one prepare?
 

NT1440

macrumors Pentium
May 18, 2008
15,078
22,121
May have been corroborated by other sources, but they were all wrong - the USB-C port isn't hobbled in any way.
I read through the tea leaves of the technologically illiterate tech “journalists”.

They’re mistaking the usb c controller chip for something special…when it’s just how you implement usb c features to the spec.
 

seek3r

macrumors 68020
Aug 16, 2010
2,475
3,637
I hope people are paying attention. Every company is prepping for a recession. And when even Apple takes action, you know it’s all but a certainty what’s coming.

Strap up. This time, businesses and Wall Street will feel the pain, and us consumers and retail investors will come out ahead. If we prepare.
Ah yes, because Apple has never tried to cut costs on product lines before, ever 🙄
 
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