I actually double checked. The one I compared it to in person was the Asus UX21 which is essentially the predecessor to the MacBook Air. We had it on our conference table next to the MacBook Air and were all amazed at the subtle details that were exact copies. The Zenbook may have changed and become more different, but I was surprised at the similarities. I would think Asus would want to be a little less blatant.
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Apple Reportedly Pressures Pegatron into Ceasing ASUS Zenbook Production
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that is not what has happened here at all. dont be silly
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it is against the law. check my post at the bottom of page 9 for the information which explains
You can't know that unless you have seen the contracts between Apple and Pegatron and have seen all the specifications and drawings that Apple has provided.
I agree with you that this could be illegal behavior by Apple, then again Apple could show evidence in a court that would show the situation was completely different than this one paragraph translation from a Chinese newspaper suggests.
It seems that apple is the new schoolyard bully!
This just seems wrong to me. And if it is true then apple needs to have their ass handed to them with fines that are appropriate to their coffers. Just like when Microsoft used to pull this crap and everyone here understood that it was unethical and illegal behavior.
This just seems wrong to me. And if it is true then apple needs to have their ass handed to them with fines that are appropriate to their coffers. Just like when Microsoft used to pull this crap and everyone here understood that it was unethical and illegal behavior.
Except that Apple should be taking issue with Asus, not the supplier. Don't shoot the messenger.
Why hasn't apple had more manufacturing done in the US? It would help their image, and the states are desperate for manufacturing work. I'm not convinced cheap labor and silicon are the only reasons for doing 90% of the work overseas.
Not trying to start a political discussion. I think I'm missing something here.
Not trying to start a political discussion. I think I'm missing something here.
You're not insinuating that this Pegatron fab plant just happened to let Asus see the design specs for the MBA, and just happened to let them use the equipment designed to produce the MBAs, right? Because, you know, no one else can design a thin laptop except for Apple, and the only way another company can make a similar laptop is by corporate IP theft.
I hope not, because that would be beyond stupid.
But assuming this is the case, you know what would happen? More than some guy with a nasally voice saying "hey guys, that's not cool, alright? You do that again, and we'll go get new friends to make our stuff". No. Everyone, up to and including the Pegatron CEO's grandmother would be sued into oblivion. The Zenbook would be yanked from store shelves without anyone batting an eye. Dogs and cats would live together. It'd be mass hysteria for Asus.
As for the situation itself? It is bullying. It's not illegal. Shame, but hey. Corporate politics.
Yeah. Same here, since Asus is usually pretty novel with some of their laptop designs. At the very least, you'd think they'd go with something other than that very distinctive wedge shape to differentiate it a bit more. But hey, the MBA is a solid design, and imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and all.
And we all know that keyboard belongs to Sony.
Probably it's still cheaper for them to take the risk of producing anything in the cloner countries, spend money on all the lawsuits, etc. than producing and selling anything made in the USA or the EU or even in Mexico.
If this is what is actually happening then you're right: Apple needs to be brought to book.
I just wonder if it's as simple as that though. As others have said, Apple pays for a lot of retooling in these factories and wouldn't be pleased if they found their equipment was being used to make unibody enclosures for their competitors.
Anti-competitive? No, this is the exact opposite of anti-competitive, aka just plain competitive. Pegatron knows that Apple is the superior company to work with, because Pegatron will make more money making Apple stuff than Asus stuff, so Pegatron has decided to work with Apple. Apple and Asus are competing for Pegatron's services, and Apple won out fair and square after Pegatron weighed the benefits to them.
The fact that there are winners and losers proves that there's competition going on. Anti-competitive would be if the government came in and required that Pegatron make products for both Apple and Asus, so that neither company could have an advantage in manufacturing, despite the fact that Apple is willing to give Pegatron much more business than Asus can offer, thus harming Apple for Asus' benefit, at the expensive of Pegatron's choice in the matter.
Apple telling Pegatron to work for them or they'll take their business elsewhere, and Pegatron decides they'll make more money with Apple = competitive
Asus suing Pegatron so a court forces Pegatron to give Asus an unearned advantage = anti-competitive
www.ftc.gov/bc/antitrust/refusal_to_deal.shtm second paragraph.
you want to try and repeat that again, this time without your personal opinion?
Desperate for manufacturing work? No, not like the Chinese/Taiwanese/whatever factory workers are desperate for manufacturing work. You can tell because US factory workers won't work unless they get cushy salaries and benefits, enough to pay for the middle class lifestyle they're used to in America. Overseas, you see people lining up by the thousands for a chance at a job in Foxconn or Pegatron because there are no other jobs for them, and they don't want to starve to death with their families.
If western factory workers were truly desperate for manufacturing work, they'd have it, because they'd be willing to take a major pay cut to get it. Since that's not happening, those manufacturing jobs are gone for good.
You're right though, it's not just labor costs. Apple executives have described how much easier it is to ramp up production, with factories being retooled and up and running literally overnight when Apple needs to meet demands. What western factory workers are going to show up when their boss calls them in the middle of the night to set up new factory lines in a matter of hours?
I'm not saying western workers are lazy and spoiled (though somebody could probably make that case), but the workers overseas are just way more hardworking and willing to work for a lot less. They do this because the alternative is starvation and poverty, and because they know they're giving their children and their children's children a leg up for the future. One generation works in the iPad factories, the next generation gets a better education, and before long, there's a huge middle class and the grandchildren are living as well as Americans and Europeans.
But that's okay. We didn't want those jobs anyway. Those jobs will always be moved around to wherever it's cheapest, and eventually replaced outright by robots, simply because it's unskilled, uneducated labor and really not worth all that much. The good jobs are in the inventing of MacBook Airs and iPads and iPhones, because those jobs can't be done by uneducated, unskilled workers or robots.
While the action on their own are not against the law they do get put into a quickly growing pile of questionable action so if and when a law suit happens it becomes another shinning example of Apple abusing it's size and market power. If said pile gets large enough the law starts cracking down and when it happens it will be hard.
found my answer in another thread, feeling dumb. Thanks Mrak. This is just dizzying.
What unearned advantage? Asus paid these people to produce their product. Apple came in and told them they'd take their business elsewhere if Pegatron continued producing said products.
If it was an either/or situation, I could understand your logic. Such as Apple wanting them to produce more Macbooks, and Pegatron having to make a choice on whether to continue producing Zenbooks, or go with the larger order. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. Pegatron was probably able to be able to produce both the Zenbook and MBA in large quantities quite easily. It's Apple bullying the company, plain and simple.
Though even after reading onetime's link above, I don't know if it's officially illegal, since A: Apple isn't a monopoly, nor are they approaching one in the laptop market, and B: the fab plant is probably outside US jurisdiction*. So, once again, BS corporate politics.
*then again, Apple is a US company. And since they're the ones doing the pushing here...
Funny you'd say that, considering Steve Jobs was a college dropout, and middle-of-the-class high school student. Not exactly the most educated of people, yet...
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haha! Taiwan also has a fair trade commission, with a limited english website so you can see it too!
http://www.ftc.gov.tw/internet/english/they are also a member of the international competition network along with the US (and pretty much every major trading country). the antitrust laws in all member countries are almost identical just in different languages and context.
for those who are not in the ICN, the laws are pretty much the same anyway especially on the grounds of refusal to deal since that has been a standard law worldwide for over a hundred years and the development of modern business
You know, I've been wondering why Asus would ape the design of the Air so closely. Think I came up with the answer...
Look at all the other ultrabooks. HP, Dell. Whoever else. None of them have the tapered design. Because of that, they all look thicker than the Air, despite being roughly the same size. I'm almost definitely Apple and Asus both went with the tapered edge for that very reason. It makes the whole laptop look thinner and sleeker.
But really. I could come up with stupid theories all night long. In the end, who really knows why Asus just about cloned the Air. The only real question here is why some of you care so much about someone copying Apple's design. It's just...kinda pointless overall.
I still read "Apple reportedly pressures PENTAGON into ceasing ASUS Zenbook Production" every time I see the title of this thread and think "I didn't even know the pentagon made their own laptops!!"
yeah its one of those days!
yeah its one of those days!
It was an interesting read. But I can see a few problems with what you posted.
First off, Pegatron and Asus are not an American company so that law may not apply. i could see if Asus had no one else to make its laptop or has a specific part that could not be made any where else.
Third, since Pegatron also makes Asus laptops that to Apples believes that look too close like its MacBook Air line.
To me that would be a conflict of interest since it might use the experience it gained from making the MacBook Air line and apply it to Asus line of ultrabooks whether intentional or unintentional.
Ultrabooks are made as a direct competitor to the MacBook Air line.
Edit: It appears someone mentioned something very simular to mine, I just responded to one post without reading the rest yet. But my thoughts exactly:
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Well said.
In saying that Cook was (and still is) the inventory channel and stock manipulation master. And has been for many years. I'm sure on the outside he's all nice and friendly but when it comes down to business Apple always comes first.
The only difference is Cook would try to put the news in a nice way, where as Jobs would tell it as blunt and rude as possible.
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MacRumors believe any little sniff of a story has to be the truth and set in concrete. Even if it's from the least credible source. But we all know this all ready. We take the MacRumor articles as they are. I'm pretty sure 95% of the rumours know what is a rumour and what is fact. So even when MacRumors mix this up we just skip past their error and read the important parts of the articles.
