Apple Reportedly Pressures Pegatron into Ceasing ASUS Zenbook Production

[Renzatic]

Two companies competing for another company's services, and one of them winning the competition.

No, it's more like two companies were using third company's service. Everyone was quite happy with this arrangement. Then one company decided to start screaming "WAHHHH", and threw a temper tantrum until the third company ditched the other using their services.

It's not competition. It's whining and bullying.

Here. I'll provide an example for you, based off your own quote

If Microsoft was the one providing Pegatron with greater profits and Apple was losing out in the supply chain accordingly, I would say good for Microsoft, and good for Pegatron. If Microsoft is ever able to invent a product that people want to buy in sufficient numbers that they require a larger supply chain, you can come back and I'll repeat it.

Sometime this year, Microsoft is going to release Windows 8. They'll require a company that presses DVDs to produce and distribute this product. They find one, and work out an arrangement. Money changes hands. Then one day, Microsoft Steve is touring one of their facilities, and discovers...horror upon horrors...

...that this same company also presses OSX discs (yeah, I know. Apple doesn't release OSX on disc anymore. It's an analogy. shut up ). This makes Microsoft Steve Very. Angry. He doesn't want the company that's pressing their DVDs to release any of the competitions products.

So what does Microsoft Steve do? He DEMANDS that they quit producing OSX discs, or they'll take their business elsewhere. I mean it isn't exactly like this company is having trouble keeping up with the demand. They can produce both quite easily. It's just that Microsoft Steve is a belligerent ass, and wants things HIS WAY!

...which is pretty much the same situation with Asus, Apple, and Pegatron.

Edit: the more I think about it, the more illegal I believe it is. See, Apple can take their business elsewhere anytime they want. It's easily within their rights to do so. But to force a manufacturer to quit producing a competitors products, which ultimately means lost revenue for Panatech no matter which way they go, is sleazy, low, and, yes, anticompetitive. Apple forced them into a difficult position. Either they lose a good bit of cash by ditching Asus, or lose even more cash by ditching Apple. It's a manufactured situation. A forced issue, where there was no issue beforehand. There's no real good way to spin this so Apple comes out looking good.

 

[mrxak]

...which is pretty much the same situation with Asus, Apple, and Pegatron.

...allegedly. Let's not forget, this is wild speculation on a rumor site parroted from almost-always-wrong Digitimes. I'm not defending wild speculation spewed by an unreliable source.

By all means, Apple might have noticed Pegatron making Air clones, and got pissed off, but I seriously doubt they were so overt. They simply said they needed more production for their own product, and hey look over there, you've got some other lines you could change over for our use. Since Apple is a major customer and likely a very profitable one to have, Pegatron decided on their own to end their relationship with Asus to better serve their best customer.

Anybody can come up with a wild explanation for anything. Perhaps a hooker died in Taiwan yesterday. I could start a rumor and say that Tim Cook killed that hooker. Just because there's a dead hooker in Taiwan, doesn't mean Tim Cook is a murderer.

 

[Renzatic]

...allegedly. Let's not forget, this is wild speculation on a rumor site parroted from almost-always-wrong Digitimes. I'm not defending wild speculation spewed by an unreliable source.

Yeah. The whole thing could be BS. But we're arguing the case as reported here, so...hell, lets argue.

By all means, Apple might have noticed Pegatron making Air clones, and got pissed off, but I seriously doubt they were so overt. They simply said they needed more production for their own product, and hey look over there, you've got some other lines you could change over for our use. Since Apple is a major customer and likely a very profitable one to have, Pegatron decided on their own to end their relationship with Asus to better serve their best customer.

First of all, Pegatron wasn't making Air clones. They were making Zenbooks. Similar looking, yes. But not exactly what I'd consider a clone or rip-off of the MBA. It's a roughly equal product, in both power and price, made and designed by one of Apple's competitors. Even if it does look strikingly similar, Apple can't just go up to them and say "we don't like it. Stop making them NOW". Not without getting the courts involved beforehand.

Secondly, it's not Apple's place to tell a manufacturer to do their job. If they want them to produce more Airs, they make the order, and let Panatech decide how best to fulfill it. And if Panatech ends up not being able to fulfill the order, then Apple moves on to someone who can.

Now if it were Panatech who ended up cutting the cord with Asus, then hey, more power to em. It was their choice. Apple wanted more Airs, were willing to pay money for it, and Panatech ended up having to cut the Zenbook line to make room for the added production requirements. This...is competition.

The aforementioned scenario in my previous post? That isn't.

Anybody can come up with a wild explanation for anything. Perhaps a hooker died in Taiwan yesterday. I could start a rumor and say that Tim Cook killed that hooker. Just because there's a dead hooker in Taiwan, doesn't mean Tim Cook is a murderer.

Depends on Tim's alibi.

 

[vrDrew]

Edit: the more I think about it, the more illegal I believe it is.

I think you need to recognize that there is a definite distinction between hard-nosed competitive business practices, and that which is illegal under US or international anti-competition law.

Lets just get one thing straight: Business is tough. Everything a business does ought to make things more difficult for their competitors. Reduce the retail price of your product? Check. Add some additional features or functionality? Check. Invest in R&D that will lead to a patented process that your competitors legally can't use? Check.

As I've tried to point out in this thread, US Anti-Trust law has certain specific characteristics. Most of these have to do with the monopolist as a seller. Specifically, it prevents sellers from using their market position to to engage in certain proscribed activities: price-fixing; exclusive dealings; market allocation; bid-rigging; product tying; and price discrimination.

There are also certain activities that firms may not engage in as purchasers: specifically "refusal to deal." However, it is important to understand very clearly that in order for this standard to be met, the purchaser either a) needs to occupy a monopsony position (i.e.. they are the only purchaser of the good or service for sale) or b) they need to collude with other firms in the same position and c) their actions need to clearly be aimed at restricting competition.

Apple's alleged pressure on Pegatron comes nowhere near meeting any of these standards.

To begin with, Apple will (justifiably) say that the discussion they had with Pegatron involved product confidentiality. That the methods they employ to fabricate the MacBook Air necessarily involves proprietary processes and technology, and that by serving Asus it is all but inevitable that Asus would gain insight into the methods by which Apple makes this market-leading product.

Secondly, you need to appreciate that Apple enjoys nothing like a monopoly position in either the sale or manufacture of the product in question. They are, quite literally, one among dozens of similar companies. They are probably a big customer of Pegatron, to be sure. But they most certainly are not the only game in town, and should Pegatron wish it, there are many other alternate customers for their services. Business, like life itself, involves making choices and compromises.

Certainly one may be of the opinion that Apple's position regarding Pegatron is an example of tough-minded business. But by no reasonable standard is it in any way illegal, or contrary to anti-competition law law of the United States, the EU, or any other country. Please consider tempering your public statements that would suggest otherwise.

 

[TheUndertow]

I've never had luck with Asus long term...w3j, G71G-A2, G71G-Q...all had quality issues across the board - Support is hit or miss.

The days of copy-cat design and manufacturing (but throw in faster / hotter / more buggy chips) is coming to a close.

In the past, I've jumped on what seemed like a better performance to price ratio, but when your "Gaming" type laptop is bricked, you need to factor OPPORTUNITY cost of being without it for (long) periods of time.

 

[jterp7]

I've never had luck with Asus long term...w3j, G71G-A2, G71G-Q...all had quality issues across the board - Support is hit or miss.

The days of copy-cat design and manufacturing (but throw in faster / hotter / more buggy chips) is coming to a close.

In the past, I've jumped on what seemed like a better performance to price ratio, but when your "Gaming" type laptop is bricked, you need to factor OPPORTUNITY cost of being without it for (long) periods of time.

heh a fellow w3j owner eh? The V6Va was probably their pinnacle at that point along with the absurd lamborghini model and the like. Personally it all went downhill for me when they partnered with BB and introduced their "value" line, which brought their reputation down to the likes of acer, toshiba, etc.

 

[TheUndertow]

heh a fellow w3j owner eh? The V6Va was probably their pinnacle at that point along with the absurd lamborghini model and the like. Personally it all went downhill for me when they partnered with BB and introduced their "value" line, which brought their reputation down to the likes of acer, toshiba, etc.

Couldn't agree more.

I noticed a big difference in the build quality/initial quality around that time when I "upgraded" to what turned out to be the G71G Beast when it shipped/launched...roughly 2 years after the w3j which I got in first shipment/launch.

I'm still waiting for the NEXT MBP to replace the G71G-Q they replaced the -A2 with.

 

[derickdub]

No you didn't. If you actually held it, you'd realize it's made out of metal, about like the MBA.

If the case is metal it may as well be aluminum foil.

Regardless of the material, it was flexing in my hands just by the weight of the machine itself. The MBA doesn't do that.

 

[Joshwawilson]

Yep. And they're full of ****.

That fruit logo company gets more disgusting by the day.

Gotta do what you gotta do I guess

 

[Puevlo]

What Apple have done is not only extremely illegal but they also may be breaking several laws.

 

[2IS]

If the case is metal it may as well be aluminum foil.

Regardless of the material, it was flexing in my hands just by the weight of the machine itself. The MBA doesn't do that.

Funny, I've held it too and it was every bit as solid as my MBA. Are you just making things up as you go? Sounds that way.

 

[derickdub]

Funny, I've held it too and it was every bit as solid as my MBA. Are you just making things up as you go? Sounds that way.

Maybe the display model used cheaper parts. Hell if I know. I just wouldn't buy it.

 

[2IS]

Maybe the display model used cheaper parts. Hell if I know. I just wouldn't buy it.

Uh no, the only difference between a display model and a boxed one is the box. I'm not doubting you wouldn't buy one but I am calling BS in the flexing in your hand under its own weight claim.

 

[gnasher729]

What Apple have done is not only extremely illegal but they also may be breaking several laws.

Your sentence doesn't make any sense. How can it be "extremely illegal" without breaking any laws?

You are drawing the wrong conclusion. Just because something is reported, doesn't mean it is true. There are lies, incompetencies, inaccurate reporting, misunderstandings, many reasons why something that is reported may not be the truth.

In questions about anti-competitive behaviour there is often a huge difference between what you think is illegal and what is illegal. If you get the laws right, then similar looking situations will be judged very differently. If a second hand report claims that Apple is doing something that would be illegal if the report was correct and complete, then I would apply common sense, assume that Apple won't openly do anything that is obviously illegal, and conclude it is much more likely that the report got something wrong.

Let's say Pegatron has capacity for building five million items. Apple orders 4 million MBAs, ASUS orders a million Zenbooks. If Apple says "we'll cancel our order if you built these Zenbooks", very dodgy. If Apple says "we increase our order to 5 million, but if you can't handle the complete order, we take it all somewhere else", absolutely fine.

 

[the red baron]

I was Googling around looking for a new laptop when I stumbled upon this thread. I had an old MBA(1st generation) that bit the dust and wanted similar. Reading this thread, I actually became more interested in the Zenbook because of all the posts saying how much it's similar to my beloved (and now deceased) MBA.

And now I own a Zenbook. And so many posts on this thread were so wrong that I was compelled to endure the friggin registration process just for this post.

It flexes when you pick it up
No it absolutely does not. Even compared to my ancient MBA that is a lot thicker, it doesn't feel even a bit flimsier: If anything, it feels more solid. Just right now, I picked it up and shook it: Absolutely no flex. The people who said it obviously haven't even seen one. Really, go to Best Buy, pick one up, and call me a liar if you can. Call them out if you can't.

The screen is dim
No. Brightness and resolution definitely got MBA beat.

It looks the same
From 90 or 180 degrees, they look similar. But thin is simply common sense in any electronic device and the wedge shape isn't exactly an innovation, which is why they couldn't sue ASUS directly. Look at the two from any other angle, which they will be viewed at in 99% of the situations: They look absolutely different. From the back, the dark spun metal finish is clearly different than the light flat coat of the MBA with a hugh lighted Apple logo. From the front, the black screen bezel and metallic keys of the Zenbook cannot be mistaken for the silver bezel and the black keys of the MBA. That picture on this thread with the two side by side was obviously taken with a heavy bias: Can you even tell which one has the black keyboard or the light silver one?

Build quality isn't the same
They're built at the same place by the same people and it's just not the same quality? Admittedly, I have a long way to go before I an comment on the reliability of this Zenbook, but ASUS is the wrong company to go against. They can produce more in-house components than anyone else in the world and those they can't, they use similar level manufacturers that Apple use. And you can say all you want about how their quality went down, but just ask your local shop which brand they still trust most.