Exactly! So lobby for change instead of whining that people follow the law
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Apple Reportedly Shifted Billions of Dollars to Small Island of Jersey Amid Tax Crackdown [Updated]
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As long as a foreign country has lower tax rates, even by .0001%, companies will be incentives to go there. There is no way to incentive them to stay unless the domestic tax rates are lower than foreign tax rates. This makes absolutely no sense because larger countries, that require larger govt., require higher taxes.
I do PAYE and don't file a tax return.
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I am lobbying for change: I am suggesting that you should not abuse the system. Nor should anyone. Just because what is being done is possible and not illegal doesn't mean one should do it.Exactly! So lobby for change instead of whining that people follow the law
We have veered off the topic of taxation of overseas income to personal income/expense tax within a sovereign border.
We in the USA pay enough taxes - it is just not being used within its borders for infrastructure development, healthcare, education, ... things that make a nation great.
We in the USA pay enough taxes - it is just not being used within its borders for infrastructure development, healthcare, education, ... things that make a nation great.
This can all be solved by making it illegal to do what Apple has done. But since most politicians are controlled by lobbyists/ their own personal interests of wealth, that probably will never happen. Until you GET THE MONEY OUT OF POLITICS, nothing will change.
Of course this also makes Apple hypocrites for trying to take the moral high ground on various topics. But so are voters and human being in general. The only real way to make change on this subject is stricter laws.
Of course this also makes Apple hypocrites for trying to take the moral high ground on various topics. But so are voters and human being in general. The only real way to make change on this subject is stricter laws.
A society without morals is not sustainable. The same thing is true of business in the long run, but most managers don't see past their next bonus check.
To be clear, since @tgara decided to take my quote totally out of context, I was not saying morals need not be considered or have no place. I was saying that argueing morals is weak because it is the argument of last resort. It says there is no more compelling argument.
If I could kill someone via internet, I’d ...
[Guidelines: Show respect for your fellow posters. Expect and accept that other users may have strongly held opinions that differ from yours. In other words, basic human courtesy.]
... buy you a drink.
Last I checked they are paying taxes on the money they make in the states and they are paying taxes on money they make overseas to those governments.
What they are not doing is paying taxes twice on the money they have already been taxed on to bring it back to the states.
So they are paying their fair share of US and other government/country taxes.
They are trying to weasel their way out of paying their fair dues. If you can't see this is wrong then we can't debate.
They have already paid their fair dues........ how is not wanting to get double taxed weaseling out?
And to be fair, this is occurring with almost any global country, not just Apple. We just happen to be on a website about Apple.
Not just tech companies do this.
It was the original Irish Deal that did it. There is No doubt Apple negotiators had their best Heavy Hitters promising Jobs and new call center and manufacturing (assembly) center, AAPL knew what they were doing.
All with Tax avoidance in mind.
Of course they were. Why wouldn't they? The deal fell through. So now they have to look else where to store their already taxed money as they figure out a way to bring it back. Aside from taking a loan out against the money at a much lower interest rate.
Good business if you ask me. Leveraging the already in place laws of the land and countries. They pay their fair share in the states. They pay their fair share in other countries. If they don't, which I am sure has happened they get dinged for it.
But I don't see why they should have to pay taxes twice on the same dollar if they don't have to.
When you say the "deal fell" yes only because EU interviened otherwise deal would still be in place.
They got found out, AAPL had a 'Plan B' and instigated it, via Guernsey.
Preplanned Tax Avoidance.
I think that time may come, but I'm not sure about the outcome. If modern militaries stay loyal to their government (rather than the people), I'm not sure an overthrow is actually possible anymore. This is especially true if the populace is unarmed and ignorant.
I think you're hitting on the problem here. I'm not sure you can do it unless you're a multi-national corporation (i.e.: a bunch of corporations in different locations). I suppose you could incorporate in a bunch of locations... but you'd also have to be making income from lots of locations. If you can do that, then I suppose you can be like Apple if you know enough yourself or have the money to hire the legal-work done.
I agree. I pay my taxes knowing that it’s creating services and infrastructure we need to operate as a civilization. I think not paying your fair share should result in audits and extreme pressure to pay fair share. Even jail time. If this person is getting away tax free each year they either earn so little and have so many kids they don’t have a tax, they do some behavior that gov deems them tax free, or they are cheating and should be prusued (which they will be eventually and then audits of years of taxes - fun!).
Note, that in some countries, the lower income brackets actually have a net-gain from the gov't each year. So, not only do they pay ZERO taxes, they are being paid by the rest of the tax payers. Then, on the high end, people and companies can lower their tax % in various ways. It's the middle class that bears the burden, at least % wise (i.e.: a billionaire pays more $ even at 5% than you and I do at say 40%.)
I hear you... in the same boat here. The overall UX and ecosystem are still better w/ Apple, but I'm preparing to bail when necessary. The experts all just keep telling me, I'm simply no longer Apple's target market. But, if poo emojis are Apples new target market, I don't see how their future can look too bright.
I think you nailed it. I'm not sure how many 'cycles' remain, but one of them is going to be massive when it finally comes. And, yes, I think Trump, Brexit, etc. can been well explained in the light of the battle between globalist entities vs nationalism/sovereignty. The globalists are extremely powerful and aren't going to be beaten easily.
The big problem is corruption and waste. The US could easily grow the military, fix health care, and a bunch of other things if so much of the money wasn't wasted.
I'm a US citizen who now lives in Canada. I don't mind paying taxes up here nearly as much, as I feel the money is being better spent. No system is perfect, but the USA's is particularly bad.
Well said. It's designed to keep pumping money from the middle class into the pockets of the rich. Yes, it's not communism, but it is corruption. They were quite on to something... they just didn't have a plan (and IMO, were backed by an equally destructive replacement).
The problem is we've been sold a bill of goods with the phrase 'free market.' A corrupt or non-regulated market is far from free. People think that 'free' means anything goes. That isn't freedom, it's chaos.
Bingo! The system has been designed to be short-term (effectively ensuring immoral outcomes).
I'm not sure there is such a thing. All laws ultimately come down to morality.
Qustion, Tim Cook once mentioned that, "Apple abides by the law and by the spirit of the law". I'd say that at the same time as parading himself and Apple as a paragon of virtues, he's knowingly making a statement that is false.
That makes him a liar.
Apple are just as sleazy as another other company, but I and many others don't care enough to not buy their products.
In America is would be unethical NOT to find tax havens.
Remember that Trump made it a campaign topic that any entity must find as many loop holes as possible.
His "fiduciary responsibility" to pay as little taxes as possible!
So, not moral to not pay taxes, but very ethical to use every legal option to not pay taxes.
Welcome to Murica!
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No wonder the 2nd is in place. an act from 17something when Gatling guns were not invented. Move with the times. Sheesh!
Doesn't matter how it fell through, it happened. Like any smart business they had a plan "B" and I wouldn't be surprised if they had a few plans to fall back on. Again why wouldn't they?
You call i preplanned tax avoidance, I call it smart business and leveraging the current laws that are in place all over the globe that allow companies to do this.
Glad you don't run your country there would be Civil War, and no doubt you have loads of Windows in your home!, And have the money to pay!
Enough! respect to you, for your views, let's ' agree to disagree'.
Peace brother.
Well, it would appear that VulchR and I are in agreement that a morality-based argument about government policy has considerable merit, as the founders intended.
Morality is the cornerstone of public policy and hence laws in a civil society. Arguing otherwise is absurd.
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The same mentality that almost sank the US economy in 2008. But who cares right?
Glad you don't run your country there would be Civil War, and no doubt you have loads of Windows in your home!, And have the money to pay!
Enough! respect to you, for your views, let's ' agree to disagree'.
Peace brother.
Why would there be civil war? I could see there being a civil war if you were going to ask the people to pay taxes twice on the same dollar. I don't have that many windows in my house, but I do abide by the current tax code for both my personal and business and well if the government says I can take XYZ that is what I do, yet I am still in the 32% tax bracket.
All good. Just a friendly discussion. Nothing personal.
At least this didn't degrade to a conversation with foul name calling or worse!