Here's the fallacy... the corporation that is being taxed in Ireland is NOT the same as the corporation that is Apple is California. Ireland Apple is a separate company that is owned by Apple California.
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Apple Reportedly Shifted Billions of Dollars to Small Island of Jersey Amid Tax Crackdown [Updated]
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Here's the fallacy... the corporation that is being taxed in Ireland is NOT the same as the corporation that is Apple is California. Ireland Apple is a separate company that is owned by Apple California.
Unfortunately it doesn't always work out the way you envision. If you make the cost of doing business high enough they just move the company somewhere else and employ fewer workers in the country they left.
Washington State and Seattle recently crowed and strutted around about how they were going to make fat cat corporations like Amazon pay their "fair share" to do business there.
Amazon responded by announcing that their new mega campus will NOT be located in tax-hungry Washington state. They will likely wind up in a place like Georgia, Indiana or Texas instead.
Cook is all for us American taxpayers to pay the cost of his pet policies like immigration, etc., but he will do anything legal to make sure Apple does not pay one penny more than it can get away with. No altruism with Cook, in spite of what people want to believe.
yeah if your are catholic or an evangelist by birth and so on you have to pay 8 or 9 % of your salary to be part of the church here.
Been thinking about leaving for a while now but i am too lazy to make an appointment with a priest whos just gonna try to talk me out of it lol
Ahh social justice as a justification for taxing in multiple jurisdictions. the prefix social is an all purpose, political weapon.
Have you ever noticed, just sticking social in front of a word reverses its meaning?
Social licence: you might have jumped through every regulatory hoop ever invented to get government approval to do something, but if someone doesn't like it, then you are told your licence doesn't matter, because you don't have a social licence. Which they get to define of course.
Social justice: the court recognises you have met every requirement under the law, but if someone doesn't like the decision of the judge, we didn't get social justice. In the old days, if someone got a consideration that according to justice they didn't deserve it was called mercy. Of course, that has religious overtones, so now it is social justice!
It works every time: social studies, social learning, you can go on forever and every one reverses or trivialises the meaning of the word that follows. Whacking social in front of a word means whatever the Humpty Dumpty sprouting it wants it to mean.
if you hear someone demanding social something or other, look carefully at what they are selling.
Have you ever noticed, just sticking social in front of a word reverses its meaning?
Social licence: you might have jumped through every regulatory hoop ever invented to get government approval to do something, but if someone doesn't like it, then you are told your licence doesn't matter, because you don't have a social licence. Which they get to define of course.
Social justice: the court recognises you have met every requirement under the law, but if someone doesn't like the decision of the judge, we didn't get social justice. In the old days, if someone got a consideration that according to justice they didn't deserve it was called mercy. Of course, that has religious overtones, so now it is social justice!
It works every time: social studies, social learning, you can go on forever and every one reverses or trivialises the meaning of the word that follows. Whacking social in front of a word means whatever the Humpty Dumpty sprouting it wants it to mean.
if you hear someone demanding social something or other, look carefully at what they are selling.
The glaring question here is this
'It then moved the firm holding most of its untaxed offshore cash, now $252bn, to the Channel Island of Jersey.'
and
most importantly
This
"Apple said the new structure had not lowered its taxes."
so Ireland was getting a bit Hot to Handle so we moved elsewhere.
Just remember when you buy your Apple products, do you respect this kind of Corporate underpinning?
'It then moved the firm holding most of its untaxed offshore cash, now $252bn, to the Channel Island of Jersey.'
and
most importantly
This
"Apple said the new structure had not lowered its taxes."
so Ireland was getting a bit Hot to Handle so we moved elsewhere.
Just remember when you buy your Apple products, do you respect this kind of Corporate underpinning?
@MODS: you might want to merge this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...out-of-paying-fair-tax.2085653/#post-25409542 - I bet MR to it. 
The iPhone 4s (16 GB storage) was released 6 years ago. It cost US$650 (accounting for inflation, that's the equivalent of $709 today). You can purchase the comparable phone (iPhone 8 - 64 GB storage) today for $700. That is a 1.5% decrease in effective price, not a 100% increase. If we want to be even more accurate we compare the price of an iPhone 4s with 64 GB storage to the iPhone 8 ($850 {$927 inflation-adjusted US$} versus $700 - that's a 24.5% decrease in effective price). Some parts are cheaper for Apple to buy, others are not (inflation affects just about everything money can buy).
Even if you compare to the iPhone X (US$1000) it's nowhere near a 100% increase but that's a whole different product; a new high end over the "standard" model.
Further, Apple's profit margins averaged about 25% in 2011 but are only about 20% in 2017 (https://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/profit_margin). There are many reasons for that but there really isn't any evidence to support any of your claims.
I can't speak for prices in your country but I'd love to see data to back up your claims.
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Yep. I'd love to see the amount of money Apple spends lobbying for various tax breaks vs the money they've spent on International Tax Reform that would actually cause them to pay more in taxes. My guess is the ratio is not very favorable.
First, until a suitable international framework is passed, consumers should demand that corporations stop acting like greedy pigs, treating stockholders as the only stakeholders (which is utter nonsense). Second, in order to establish the new world order, I've notice these tax havens tend to be puny little countries that our military could crush like overripe mangos, so a certain amount of pressure on these tax havens to be transparent with respect to banking would not go amiss. Third, I'm all for international tax reform, but that's not to say national policies do not play a role. Apple got away with this because the nations where Apple products sold let these loopholes stand.
And fourth, since the effective tax rate for Apple in the EU appears to be very much lower than in the US, I'd very much like to know why Apple charges the same in £'s as it does in $'s for products, in spite of an exchange rate of ~$1.30 to the £. When asked this before, the answer was always 'taxes'.....
I was going to buy a new iPhone. Not so sure now.
SO, WHAT?!
I agree with others that Apple is masterful at playing the game. The game itself is purposefully designed to advantage corporations. Don’t like it, contact your rep (and good luck wth that, anyway).
Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
I agree with others that Apple is masterful at playing the game. The game itself is purposefully designed to advantage corporations. Don’t like it, contact your rep (and good luck wth that, anyway).
Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
Why? Your telling me that if you had the opportunity to avoid paying large amounts in tax that you would pass up that opportunity! I seriously doubt anyone would. Let’s not be hypocrites here many people dodge or avoid paying as much tax as possible.
Apple: just another greedy company serving the rich. So much for changing the world....
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Don't blame the burglar, blame the faulty locks on your windows....
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Why the h*** not? In the US corporations are treated as though they are people, are they not (complete with the right to have religious views that determine how they treat staff and customers)? Indeed, why are corporation tax rates any different than personal rates?
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Don't blame the burglar, blame the faulty locks on your windows....
[doublepost=1510005357][/doublepost]
Why the h*** not? In the US corporations are treated as though they are people, are they not (complete with the right to have religious views that determine how they treat staff and customers)? Indeed, why are corporation tax rates any different than personal rates?
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What 'misinformation and propaganda' are you talking about? This story and the Panama papers are (and were) reported worldwide in all relevant newspapers and discussed on all major TV channels.
It's not the media, it's the people who have given up.
And then there are the people who think this is how it has to be. Look no further than the majority of comments on the first page here.
I'm all for avoiding taxes and consider it ethical to do so.
It is, however, unethical to use the money you saved to buy politicians so that you can enjoy elaborate deductions/breaks/loopholes not available to the common man.
It is, however, unethical to use the money you saved to buy politicians so that you can enjoy elaborate deductions/breaks/loopholes not available to the common man.
Two words greedy Bastards !
Apple sidestepped a 2013 crackdown on its controversial Irish tax structure by moving the majority of its offshore cash holdings to the small island of Jersey, a self-governed territory with loose ties to the United Kingdom, according to leaked financial documents obtained by The New York Times and BBC.
The island of Jersey via its Chamber of Commerce
The so-called Paradise Papers, primarily sourced from offshore tax law firm Appleby, reveal that Apple's two key Irish subsidiaries were managed from Appleby's office in Jersey from 2015 until early 2016. Apple chose Jersey after exploring several potential tax havens, such as Bermuda and the Cayman Islands.
Apple said it made regulators in the United States and Ireland, and the European Commission, aware about the reorganization of its Irish subsidiaries, and added that the changes haven't reduced its tax bill.
"The changes we made did not reduce our tax payments in any country," an Apple spokesperson told The New York Times. "At Apple we follow the laws, and if the system changes we will comply. We strongly support efforts from the global community toward comprehensive international tax reform and a far simpler system."
Apple turned to Jersey after European officials began to crack down on the so-called "Double Irish" tax structure Apple had exploited.
The "Double Irish" tax loophole allows for multinational corporations to funnel revenue through an Irish subsidiary, which in turn sends that money to another Irish subsidiary that has residency in a tax haven. In a nutshell, the practice has enabled Apple to save billions of dollars in taxes around the world.
The European Commission found Apple paid between 0.005 percent and 1 percent in taxes in Ireland from 2003 through 2014, compared to the country's headline 12.5 percent corporate tax rate. Apple CEO Tim Cook said the Commission's ruling against Apple was "total political crap" and that the tax rates were a "false number."
When questioned by the United States Senate investigative subcommittee in 2013, Cook said "we pay all the taxes we owe." He added that Apple doesn't "stash money on some Caribbean island."
While that was true at the time, it's clear Apple was exploring similar options as part of its tax minimization efforts.
"This is how it usually works: You close one tax shelter, and something else opens up," said Reuven Avi-Yonah, director of the international tax program at the University of Michigan Law School. "It just goes on endlessly."
Cook has made it clear that Apple is willing to repatriate some of its offshore cash holdings into the United States, but he recently said tax reform is "sorely needed" first. U.S. President Donald Trump has proposed lowering the headline corporate tax rate to 20 percent, down from 35 percent currently.
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Article Link: Apple Reportedly Shifted Billions of Dollars to Small Island of Jersey Amid Tax Crackdown
True, but then he would be a man of integrity and not the cynical liar that he is.
You have to start somewhere and say no to a corrupt system.