Apple Reportedly Working Towards Mass Production of Thinner and Brighter Micro-LED Displays

[CarlJ]

It's easier to put the latest tech into a product when you will only be making 500k or 1mil of something. (Even those aren't "small" numbers...) But when you look at the iPhone, which can sell 50 million in a single quarter (iPhone 7 is my example here) you can quickly run up against a wall.

This is a thing I don't think enough people fully comprehend - making 50 million of a phone (and not just a screw or a bracket, but a pretty complex device) in a quarter works out in the ballpark of half a million phones a day - every single day (and if you take weekends off, then the production rate necessary goes up even higher). That's half a million screens, half a million batteries, one million cameras (front and back), half a million circuit boards, CPU/GPUs, baseband chips, RAM chips... half a million of every single little part, and you have to have tomorrow's half a million of every part warehoused next door (actually, probably a week or more's worth of every part)... and half a million phones being tested and passing inspection and being sealed into half a million boxes, and filling up shipping containers, every single day. It's just kind of mind boggling that they can orchestrate all this.

(You also have to keep a close eye on every company in your entire supply chain - the ones you buy parts from, and the ones that they, in turn, buy parts/materials from, back on up the line - because if, say, the company making a screw that's used 4-per-phone has trouble that shuts down their factory, you can't just go down to Home Depot and pick up 2 million of that same exact screw - you have to have contingency plans for covering any shortage, and you have to be able to see those shortages as far in advance as possible.)

 

[lec0rsaire]

Ever since the first OLED tv was introduced a decade ago, the 11" Sony, I thought that was it. We had finally found the perfect be-all,end-all display tech and that's turned out to simply not be the case. While OLED produces amazing blacks and picture quality, it can't compare in brightness to the best that LED has to offer and this is the reason why Sony offers two flagship sets with each tech for the same price. LED doesn't suffer from burn-in, goes up to 4,000 nits and unless you do all your watching in an ideal dark room, you don't have to worry about OLED burn-in with LED.

I was all set on buying an OLED set until I learned of all of its drawbacks. Even salesmen who have an incentive to sell more expensive products told me that OLED burn-in is a huge problem and lots of customers have been coming back and complaining about it. So much so that he told me you're really better off buying a high-end Sony LED with full-array local dimming especially if most of your viewing will be done with bright conditions. So I welcome further LED development and refinement. LG has also engaged in some deceptive marketing with Dolby Vision. While it is clearly the best HDR standard, their current sets can never fully support it since they don't have 12-bit panels. Right now HDR10 is as good as it gets. It will be a while before we see sets coming close to supporting the full BT.2020 spec.

Honestly I think 4K was rolled out prematurely because of the failure of 3DTV to be adopted by the masses no matter how much they tried to promote it several years ago. First the sets only supported 4K/30, no HDR, no HDCP 2.2, and on and on. Then we saw more with 4K/60 but no HDR, then 4K/60 with HDR but as we all know HDR quality varies widely from model to model. It's only now that a quality HDR (for 2017) set has become more affordable (sub $2k) but every year sets with better HDR quality will be released and maybe even FALD sets will be sub-$1k. When HD was rolled out you only had to worry about whether you were buying plasma or LCD, 720p or 1080p. The more you spent the better the contrast ratio was but by the time 1080p sets were prominent, 1080i broadcasting was widespread, Blu ray was available, consoles supported 1080p and in general the content was there. With 4K we're a long way away from broadcast content being available at least in America. South Korea, as always being the first to adopt new standards, will broadcast the Olympics with some form of the ATSC 3.0 spec. I can see Japan having 4K broadcasting before us as well. They simply care about tech over there. Here the FCC is so corrupt and bought off, that we are always being held back by corporations who have no incentive to upgrade their networks nor equipment.

 

[Mc0]

All I care about is-does micro-LED suffer from burn in like OLED?

It wont suffer from burn in. They are made up of inorganic material unlike the organic ones found in OLED.

 

[canadianreader]

Mini-LED, Micro-LED then the real breakthrough is LED-C

 

[TrueBlou]

Been waiting on MicroLED for a long time, not that I’m about to get it on my wrist, in my hands or in my entertainment centre any time soon.
I love my OLED displays, they really are a big improvement over LCD, to my eyes, argue away all you like I don’t care.

But I’ve been following the development of M-LED for years and it really does have a few benefits over OLED. I sincerely hope that Apple perfect volume production of this technology. And when they do, I hope they make a big ass TV with it... Along with the other stuff

 

[shk718]

Would be nice to see Apple gain a competitive edge with the iPhone display tech again, as the iPhone X seems to be merely catching up to what the competition offers. Regardless, I'll be looking forward to this when I upgrade in 2020...

i don't think apple is catching up with its implementation of OLED - implying that they were late to the game. They waited until the tech was better, which was the correct decision to make, OLED's prior to now all had significant compromises. They also designed its layout themselves and, based on the reviews, created the best implementation of OLED on the market. This is Apple at its best - take an existing tech and make it better.

 

[code-m]

As much as I like the promise of micro LED making it into the iPhone sooner rather than later, it will be 3-5 years before it happens. OLED is a temp solution till micro LED can be scaled in mass. I am not wild about the colour shifts with the iPhone X screen, in this regard it feels like a downgrade compared to the previous LED screens.

Got to accept the pain for a few more years I guess on the iPhone. I am pleased to hear that the iPad Pro will not get an OLED in 2018. I prefer the screen on my iPad Pro compared to the iPhone X, unless some software update improves the OLED, I am on the fence to call it better.

 

[Bacillus]

This is a thing I don't think enough people fully comprehend - making 50 million of a phone (and not just a screw or a bracket, but a pretty complex device) in a quarter works out in the ballpark of half a million phones a day - every single day (and if you take weekends off, then the production rate necessary goes up even higher). That's half a million screens, half a million batteries, one million cameras (front and back), half a million circuit boards, CPU/GPUs, baseband chips, RAM chips... half a million of every single little part, and you have to have tomorrow's half a million of every part warehoused next door (actually, probably a week or more's worth of every part)... and half a million phones being tested and passing inspection and being sealed into half a million boxes, and filling up shipping containers, every single day. It's just kind of mind boggling that they can orchestrate all this.

(You also have to keep a close eye on every company in your entire supply chain - the ones you buy parts from, and the ones that they, in turn, buy parts/materials from, back on up the line - because if, say, the company making a screw that's used 4-per-phone has trouble that shuts down their factory, you can't just go down to Home Depot and pick up 2 million of that same exact screw - you have to have contingency plans for covering any shortage, and you have to be able to see those shortages as far in advance as possible.)

Enough people comprehend that nobody asked them to become this slow moving, moloch behemoth anyway. And Steve forbid it.

 

[mrkkbb]

I would be happier if Apple worked on making the screen all sapphire glass a reality.

 

[cmaier]

The thought of Apple selling displays to Samsung makes me giddy.

That would of course never happen.

 

[FasterQuieter]

I want a 90" micro LED 8K TV and i don't want to pay more than $1,000. I suspect I have a long wait.

 

[dampfnudel]

Hopefully for the redesigned Watch4.

I'm just curious how redesigned it will be without compromising functionality? A round face may actually reduce the functionality because of lost screen real estate. It's possible given Samsung's efforts, but still besides a different look which would probably be appreciated, even by me, could Apple pull it off with any compromise?
[doublepost=1511199370][/doublepost]

I want a 90" micro LED 8K TV and i don't want to pay more than $1,000. I suspect I have a long wait.

I would like to say a decade, but maybe I'm being optimistic. Then again, you never know, one breakthrough could lead to your wish.

 

[falainber]

Is Micro-LED going the way of Liquid Metal?

 

[dampfnudel]

That would of course never happen.

Samsung would probably prefer to go bankrupt first, but given their huge investment in display tech, their long history, etc., it will most likely continue to be the other way around with Apple purchasing displays (and more) from Samsung. Apple may bark at times at their suppliers, but eventually every dog comes back to the hand that feeds them the best.

 

[kdarling]

True blacks huh ? Isn't that what say also said about OLED?

Uh, yes. Many people in this thread totally misread the article. It was first talking about O/LED vs LCD, not versus each other:

"Micro-LED displays have many of the same advantages as OLED displays have over LCDs, including improved color accuracy, improved contrast ratio, faster response times, and true blacks given both have self-lit pixels,"

THEN it compared LED to OLED, adding:

"but they can be even thinner, much brighter, and more energy efficient than OLED."

Which was really true years ago, but of course OLED has kept improving, and at much lower cost.

Some reports suggest it is easier to make microLED in larger sizes (perhaps why the only microLED screen available is Sony's CLEDIS 36'x9' (yes feet, not inches)), so hopefully we will also see this technology in monitors soon.

Another huge but common misconception. First off, CLEDIS is made up of many submodules.

More importantly, CLEDIS only has a PPI of twenty. That's right, 20 PPI. That's because it uses large LEDs.

That's why "micro LEDs" are currently only used in larger sized displays. It's too costly and difficult right now to make in the PPI needed for smaller ones.

(It's a PR thing calling all inorganic LEDs "micro LED", kind of like naming a material "Liquid Metal". It sounds cooler than it is. In reality, microLED is supposed to only apply to submicron dots.)

 

[cmaier]

Uh, yes. Many people in this thread totally misread the article. It was first talking about O/LED vs LCD, not versus each other:

"Micro-LED displays have many of the same advantages as OLED displays have over LCDs, including improved color accuracy, improved contrast ratio, faster response times, and true blacks given both have self-lit pixels,"

THEN it compared LED to OLED, adding:

"but they can be even thinner, much brighter, and more energy efficient than OLED."

Which was really true years ago, but of course OLED has kept improving, and at much lower cost.



Another huge but common misconception. First off, CLEDIS is made up of many submodules.

More importantly, CLEDIS only has a PPI of twenty. That's right, 20 PPI. That's because it uses large LEDs.

Is micro-LED more resistant to burn-in than OLED? seems to me it should still be an issue due to carrier accumulation, but we've known how to mitigate that for a very long time.

 

[fmalloy]

So your fancy iPhone X is already obsolete.

Apple's innovation always seems to start with "Apple acquired xxx-Tech corporation..."

 

[Cosmosent]

Very nice article ! ... well written !

 

[dgdosen]

True blacks huh ? Isn't that what say also said about OLED?

One day we will get this right ... Hopefully the shift to U.S will mean no delays..

I say "hopefully" because it doesn't really matter where Apple makes their stuff, they can't escape.

Seeing the X and 7 side by side really shows up the difference in the look of black on these devices.... The contrast is incredible - I just hope it's good for eye strain.
[doublepost=1511201933][/doublepost]This is the first I've heard of micro-led - and if that's the future - bring it!

 

[Mc0]

Samsung would probably prefer to go bankrupt first, but given their huge investment in display tech, their long history, etc., it will most likely continue to be the other way around with Apple purchasing displays (and more) from Samsung. Apple may bark at times at their suppliers, but eventually every dog comes back to the hand that feeds them the best.

Yes, I agree. Let’s not forget that the competitions are also investing on micro LED developments. Samsung even bought some mLED startups to help it’s research.

 

[Moonjumper]

Another huge but common misconception. First off, CLEDIS is made up of many submodules.

More importantly, CLEDIS only has a PPI of twenty. That's right, 20 PPI. That's because it uses large LEDs.

That's why "micro LEDs" are currently only used in larger sized displays. It's too costly and difficult right now to make in the PPI needed for smaller ones.

(It's a PR thing calling all inorganic LEDs "micro LED", kind of like naming a material "Liquid Metal". It sounds cooler than it is. In reality, microLED is supposed to only apply to submicron dots.)

Although you call it a misconception, you reinforce my point that a monitor may be easier to create than a phone screen.

I know CLEDIS is made of sub-modules, something that is easier with a larger screen. And although CLEDIS is only 20PPI, 99% of the surface area is not LED. Each LED is only 0.003 mm2 in size. There is probably a lot of options for moving them closer together.

Cledis is actually a bunch of smaller panels (17"x15") with a lot of processing used to inter-connect them. Also, each panel is about $5000, so it's still prohibitively expensive to put even into a phone.

A product for commercial use that was first to market is a poor indicator of consumer product cost. Sony's own OLED TVs for film production (not the recent consumer TV with an LG panel) are still tens of thousands of dollars, even though they are a much more mature product.

 

[shareef777]

Although you call it a misconception, you reinforce my point that a monitor may be easier to create than a phone screen.

I know CLEDIS is made of sub-modules, something that is easier with a larger screen. And although CLEDIS is only 20PPI, 99% of the surface area is not LED. Each LED is only 0.003 mm2 in size. There is probably a lot of options for moving them closer together.



A product for commercial use that was first to market is a poor indicator of consumer product cost. Sony's own OLED TVs for film production (not the recent consumer TV with an LG panel) are still tens of thousands of dollars, even though they are a much more mature product.

No one said it was a great indicator, but it's still an indicator none the less. Especially when it's the ONLY product available for sale. I'd agree if there were cheaper versions available (even at lower quality), but as it stands Cledis is the only microLED to compare to.

 

[DoctorTech]

I believe another advantage of micro LED would be that they do not have the potential screen burn-in issue if you leave a bright, still image on the screen for extended periods of time. I LOVE my iPhone X but with my Verizon plan, I am sure I will upgrade to the XI or whatever they call next year's model. I am not worried about screen burn-in on my OLED display but it is always in the back of my mind when I am using my phone.

 

[kdarling]

Although you call it a misconception, you reinforce my point that a monitor may be easier to create than a phone screen.

I apologize! I read too quickly and assumed you were talking about phone screens like everyone else.

In fact, Sony made a microLED TV a few years back. 55", 1920x1080 resolution. Which is 40 PPI. (A 27" Apple Cinema display is 100 PPI.)

So I agree with you that larger microLED displays are much more likely than phone or watch-sized panels, for the next few years at least.

--

I wish they wouldn't use the phrase "micro LED" though. That came from a research paper title. The name is cool but confusing. The real name should be just LED, or optionally, ILED (Inorganic LED).

 

[I7guy]

Most people aren't making noise about that claim because, to date, no one who has made that claim has provided any supporting evidence to back it up. Afaik, the difference between the panel on the X and Note 8 is not the panel itself but the color calibration from each company. Both panels are still Sammy's diamond subpixel design with that larger blue pixel.

Who knows, maybe you'll be the first to provide some credible evidence of this claim.

No one has provided any proof Apple didnt design it mostly the panels. Neither confirm nor deny.