Apple Reportedly Working Towards Mass Production of Thinner and Brighter Micro-LED Displays

[cppguy]

True blacks huh ?

OLED has no backlighting. When a pixel is off, it doesn't emit any light at all. But it still reflects light. What is true black? Black paint isn't true black. Space isn't even true black. Not even a light year away from the sun. But at some point you gotta say it's true enough. Assuming you don't want to live in a black box a trillion miles away from all stars. If a pixel can turn off so it doesn't emit light, that's black enough for me. Of course there's always a way to make it even deeper black, but as long as you shine some light on it, it'll always reflect something.

 

[69Mustang]

No one has provided any proof Apple didnt design it mostly the panels. Neither confirm nor deny.

Prove a negative you say? Please follow sir Brad. Negatives are proven in the Pit of Misery. Dilly Dilly.

 

[I7guy]

Prove a negative you say? Please follow sir Brad. Negatives are proven in the Pit of Misery. Dilly Dilly.

In other words, sir, no proof either way. Got it.

 

[69Mustang]

In other words, sir, no proof either way. Got it.

Wait are you serious? The panels that Apple has ordered from Samsung - 2 years worth. The same panels utilizing Samsung's patented diamond subpixel. These are the panels that Apple supposedly designed? Okaaay. Color calibrated? Oh hell yeah. Designed? Designed what exactly? Afaik, that rumor started with fanboys and made it no further than their oft repeated claim - closely followed by prove our made up claim wrong. That's akin to the infamous "Are you still beating your wife? Yes or no. Still deserving of the Pit of Misery.

 

[I7guy]

Wait are you serious? The panels that Apple has ordered from Samsung - 2 years worth. The same panels utilizing Samsung's patented diamond subpixel. These are the panels that Apple supposedly designed? Okaaay. Color calibrated? Oh hell yeah. Designed? Designed what exactly? Afaik, that rumor started with fanboys and made it no further than their oft repeated claim - closely followed by prove our made up claim wrong. That's akin to the infamous "Are you still beating your wife? Yes or no. Still deserving of the Pit of Misery.

Hmm correlation does not imply causation come to mind.

 

[wizard]

What s interesting here is that assembly was specifically mentioned as a problem. It makes me wonder if growing all three colors on one substrate is impossible. If this is an assembly issue dont expect a rapid solution to the problem.

Digressing a bit, one reason why im not excited about X is the OLED display. My concern is mostly longevity as i prefer to keep each iPhone i buy for as long as possible. Lets face it burn in sucks. Time will tell if Apple has the problem licked but it is hard to beat the underlying technology's faults.

 

[kdarling]

In other words, sir, no proof either way. Got it.

So you agree that anyone claiming that Apple designed the OLED panel being made by Samsung is just making it up?

 

[I7guy]

So you agree that anyone claiming that Apple designed the OLED panel being made by Samsung is just making it up?

I agree that Apple did more than hand Samsung a piece of toilet paper with the specs and did less than a full blown circuit design, custom inorganic chemical design and custom shapes for the leds.

So, IMO, Apple is somewhere in the middle of doing nothing but a verbal request and doing everything.

 

[wizard]

So you agree that anyone claiming that Apple designed the OLED panel being made by Samsung is just making it up?

You guys have an interesting discussion but nobody has defined what "design" means in this context. It is a certainty that Apple had input with respect to the panel, the only question is how much.

This isnt much different than buying a steel forging from a shop with a unique process. There are a number of levels of design input one can have. The least would be asking for a part that can do "this" and expecting a solution from the vendor. On the opposite end you design a part down to the last milimeter and encourage the vendor to find a way to forge it. "Design" can mean many things to people and as such you need to be on the same page when discussing it.
[doublepost=1511213597][/doublepost]

I agree that Apple did more than hand Samsung a piece of toilet paper with the specs and did less than a full blown circuit design, custom inorganic chemical design and custom shapes for the leds.

So, IMO, Apple is somewhere in the middle of doing nothing but a verbal request and doing everything.

Yep and we likely will never know where Apple sits in the design process. It is possible though that they did more circuit design than you implied. I only say that because more and more circuitry in iPhone is being replaced with custom Apple designs. That is conjecture based on trends at Apple with no specific info.

 

[travelsheep]

finally a thinner phone. we're all fed up with those heavy bricks. hopefully one day we can have a negativ thickness phone, with negative battery life (means you have to add juice to have 0 battery).

 

[Lilok]

This is even more exciting than oled
It's awesome that manufactors are jumping that ship, i cant wait!

Edit:

I KNEW that I read something similar about samsung a month ago...

https://www.ledinside.com/news/2017...micro_led_to_escape_plight_of_poor_qled_sales

Also, south-koreans are about to mass-produce such panels. Looking forward to this.

 

[mobiletech]

You guys have an interesting discussion but nobody has defined what "design" means in this context. It is a certainty that Apple had input with respect to the panel, the only question is how much.

This isnt much different than buying a steel forging from a shop with a unique process. There are a number of levels of design input one can have. The least would be asking for a part that can do "this" and expecting a solution from the vendor. On the opposite end you design a part down to the last milimeter and encourage the vendor to find a way to forge it. "Design" can mean many things to people and as such you need to be on the same page when discussing it.
[doublepost=1511213597][/doublepost]
Yep and we likely will never know where Apple sits in the design process. It is possible though that they did more circuit design than you implied. I only say that because more and more circuitry in iPhone is being replaced with custom Apple designs. That is conjecture based on trends at Apple with no specific info.

I commend you on your understanding of production.
Apple now sends schematics for their chips so its pretty safe to say apple did custom edid/DDC and calibration. which actually decides resolution and behavior.

however, the oled itself... apple probably received samples of different pixel densities and just sent back to Samsung which one they wanted with dimensions. The cost for a completely custom oled/lcd density would require entirely new machines to produce them and would put the cost of the iPhone around $10,000.00(US)

 

[cmaier]

I commend you on your understanding of production.
Apple now sends schematics for their chips so its pretty safe to say apple did custom edid/DDC and calibration. which actually decides resolution and behavior.

however, the oled itself... apple probably received samples of different pixel densities and just sent back to Samsung which one they wanted with dimensions. The cost for a completely custom oled/lcd density would require entirely new machines to produce them and would put the cost of the iPhone around $10,000.00(US)

Doubt they send schematics of the A-series chips. More likely gdsii or openaccess database. Fabs don’t need to know the netlist. (Yeah, I’m being pedantic).

 

[joueboy]

This is my predictions for the upcoming iPhones which Apple will be bragging how hard they work to make things possible. Obviously a much thinner iPhone X iteration maybe about at least a minimum of 1mm smaller. Then a much smaller notch this is where they gonna talk more how they made the notch smaller. They'll be talking crazy ideas how a much better front facing camera and sensor was shrunk but kept the same quality. Despite the camera/sensor being just less than 1mm smaller they gained so much space around the notch. Everything else just a typical yearly upgrades like better processor and a brighter display maybe around 700 nits.

 

[Nismo73]

I'm just curious how redesigned it will be without compromising functionality? A round face may actually reduce the functionality because of lost screen real estate. It's possible given Samsung's efforts, but still besides a different look which would probably be appreciated, even by me, could Apple pull it off with any compromise?
[doublepost=1511199370][/doublepost]

I would like to say a decade, but maybe I'm being optimistic. Then again, you never know, one breakthrough could lead to your wish.

Probably stay similar shape, just more edge to edge display, a bit thinner, battery life, maybe always on during specified time period, some more health use of the sensors.

 

[cmaier]

This is my predictions for the upcoming iPhones which Apple will be bragging how hard they work to make things possible. Obviously a much thinner iPhone X iteration maybe about at least a minimum of 1mm smaller. Then a much smaller notch this is where they gonna talk more how they made the notch smaller. They'll be talking crazy ideas how a much better front facing camera and sensor was shrunk but kept the same quality. Despite the camera/sensor being just less than 1mm smaller they gained so much space around the notch. Everything else just a typical yearly upgrades like better processor and a brighter display maybe around 700 nits.

I think the notch stays for awhile. It’s distinctive and differentiates the phone from every other inevitable slab of glass.

 

[ackmondual]

It will be nice if they can get the screen cost back down to around $75 per device. With Apple's profit margins the additional $75 - $100 the AMOLED screen costs is driving the price of the X up by $200 - $300.

... I'm skeptical that Apple will offer meaningful savings, if any, to its buyers. One main benefit is they get to control their own terms. Not be stuck under Samsung's monopoly like when ramping out the IphX. They already know people are lining up to spend $1000 to $1150 on these phones, not including accessories

 

[cmaier]

... I'm skeptical that Apple will offer meaningful savings, if any, to its buyers. One main benefit is they get to control their own terms. Not be stuck under Samsung's monopoly like when ramping out the IphX. They already know people are lining up to spend $1000 to $1150 on these phones, not including accessories

Maybe they’ll include better accessories. Like a real charger and a usb-c cable.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Maybe they’ll include better accessories. Like a real charger and a usb-c cable.

Most users charge their phone only at night, so the 5W charger is sufficient. What does it matter if it takes an hour or three hours to fully charge? And a USB-C to Lightning cable would be useful to relatively few.

What a waste of money and resources, to include something that won’t benefit 150MM or more buyers per year.

If you’re someone who does need to charge during the day, a $19 12W iPad charger is a nice, relatively inexpensive upgrade though.

 

[joueboy]

I think the notch stays for awhile. It’s distinctive and differentiates the phone from every other inevitable slab of glass.

I didn’t say it’s going somewhere. I said they’ll make it a little smaller because technology is improving. A much smaller sensor/camera would make this into design possible. Stop glorifying the notch as if Apple intentionally created it to make the phone unique and beautiful. It’s the only way to do it knowing they want edge to edge display and there’s no where else to put the camera/sensor.

 

[cmaier]

Most users charge their phone only at night, so the 5W charger is sufficient. What does it matter if it takes an hour or three hours to fully charge? And a USB-C to Lightning cable would be useful to relatively few.

What a waste of money and resources, to include something that won’t benefit 150MM or more buyers per year.

If you’re someone who does need to charge during the day, a $19 12W iPad charger is a nice, relatively inexpensive upgrade though.

A usb-c to lightning cable would be useful to everyone who has invested in apple’s entire ecosystem and who owns a recent Mac.

 

[I7guy]

You guys have an interesting discussion but nobody has defined what "design" means in this context. It is a certainty that Apple had input with respect to the panel, the only question is how much.

This isnt much different than buying a steel forging from a shop with a unique process. There are a number of levels of design input one can have. The least would be asking for a part that can do "this" and expecting a solution from the vendor. On the opposite end you design a part down to the last milimeter and encourage the vendor to find a way to forge it. "Design" can mean many things to people and as such you need to be on the same page when discussing it.
[doublepost=1511213597][/doublepost]
Yep and we likely will never know where Apple sits in the design process. It is possible though that they did more circuit design than you implied. I only say that because more and more circuitry in iPhone is being replaced with custom Apple designs. That is conjecture based on trends at Apple with no specific info.

My own opinion, based on my thoughts mirroring yours, is along the same lines. (I did say opinion and have no proof either way). My take is apple did more design than less, but other forum members seem to feel the opposite. Certainly an interesting topic, but we will likely not know how much is "more".

 

[mikecorp]

actually apple is working on thinner battery too. it is half plastified, the enclosure of the battery is modular and it will fill gaps. OLED display is overrated and not worth it.
[doublepost=1511258826][/doublepost]

A usb-c to lightning cable would be useful to everyone who has invested in apple’s entire ecosystem and who owns a recent Mac.

I will never ever buy a laptop with USB-C to charge battery, unless it is magnetic one or wireless charging.

 

[Robstevo]

Agreed. People don’t seem to realize that most of the modern new features of iPhones has tech that is already in use in the watch, namely OLED, 3D Touch, water proofing, and the Taptic Engine.

OLED, waterproofing, Taptic Engine....have all been around for years now.

 

[ChrisCW11]

Longer lifespan, isn't that moot for iPhone? I mean many people get a new one every year, and at most I read the average is two years between upgrades. I don't think ANY phone will last as long as the burnout for OLED.