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Apple Reports $1.67 Billion Profit for Q4 2009, Most Profitable Quarter Ever

gnasher729 said:
One reason why Microsoft right now has less cash than Apple is because the company is poorly managed and wastes hundreds of millions at a time on different adventures. They have Windows and Office that make money, but they sell X-Boxes that keep on catching fire, they threw away T-Mobile's data, they have a search engine where they have to pay people to use it, all cases of bad management.
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Actually it's more to do with stock buy back and dividend payments. As for the Xbox, that cost money but 'catch fire'? Come on, it had it's faults - which have been corrected although it took far too long to do so - but that wasn't one of them.

You also might want to keep up with the T-Mobile data situation as it seems its been recovered. As opposed to, say, those unfrotunates with SL guest account errors.

Microsoft have enough things wrong with aspects of their strategy - particularly mobile communications and search - but let's not get carried away.
 
BongoBanger said:
Actually it's more to do with stock buy back and dividend payments. As for the Xbox, that cost money but 'catch fire'? Come on, it had it's faults - which have been corrected although it took far too long to do so - but that wasn't one of them.

You also might want to keep up with the T-Mobile data situation as it seems its been recovered. As opposed to, say, those unfrotunates with SL guest account errors.

Microsoft have enough things wrong with aspects of their strategy - particularly mobile communications and search - but let's not get carried away.
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T-Mobile doesn't seem like recovered at all. Microsoft has announced that they have found some data and after two weeks has announced that they are "making progress", this is nowhere near "recovered". And the number of people affected are millions. I don't know what the contracts are between T-Mobile and Microsoft, but T-Mobile will not be pushed around by anyone, including Microsoft, and Microsoft will pay for that.

X-Box took write downs of $1.3 billion in one year alone for hardware failures.

Yes, most of Microsoft's cash "disappeared" quite legitimately by paying paid to its shareholders. But the post that I replied to noted that analysts would claim that Microsoft is somehow better managed because they have less cash - and if you add up all their costly mistakes, Microsoft would with all dividends and share buybacks have _more_ cash than Apple if they didn't have some really bad mismanagement in some places. Paying $1.3 billion because X-Box hardware is crappy shouldn't have happened. Many other things shouldn't have happened.
 
I think Apple could have made even MORE money but shortages of the iPhone 3Gs and problems with the AT&T HSDPA 3G network have hampered higher levels of acceptance for the iPhone.

Is it small wonder the rumors of a Apple device for Verizon's EVDO 3G network persist to this day?
 
gnasher729 said:
T-Mobile doesn't seem like recovered at all. Microsoft has announced that they have found some data and after two weeks has announced that they are "making progress", this is nowhere near "recovered". And the number of people affected are millions. I don't know what the contracts are between T-Mobile and Microsoft, but T-Mobile will not be pushed around by anyone, including Microsoft, and Microsoft will pay for that.

X-Box took write downs of $1.3 billion in one year alone for hardware failures.

Yes, most of Microsoft's cash "disappeared" quite legitimately by paying paid to its shareholders. But the post that I replied to noted that analysts would claim that Microsoft is somehow better managed because they have less cash - and if you add up all their costly mistakes, Microsoft would with all dividends and share buybacks have _more_ cash than Apple if they didn't have some really bad mismanagement in some places. Paying $1.3 billion because X-Box hardware is crappy shouldn't have happened. Many other things shouldn't have happened.
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Analysts should be pointing to Microsoft's profits margins as an indication of strong its business is (whether it's because of management or its unique position is arguable). MS has an easier time generating (more) cash on a quarterly basis than does Apple, i.e., it can pay dividends, compete viciously in certain markets, and afford its write downs, all at the same time.
 
gnasher729 said:
T-Mobile doesn't seem like recovered at all. Microsoft has announced that they have found some data and after two weeks has announced that they are "making progress", this is nowhere near "recovered". And the number of people affected are millions. I don't know what the contracts are between T-Mobile and Microsoft, but T-Mobile will not be pushed around by anyone, including Microsoft, and Microsoft will pay for that.
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Contacts recovery began today. Other data will follow.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/20/t-mobile-posts-sidekick-contact-recovery-instructions/

No doubt Microsoft will have to make some compensatory settlement though.

X-Box took write downs of $1.3 billion in one year alone for hardware failures.
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I know, hence the extended profit horizon.

I agree that Microsoft managed a lot of things badly but so have Apple - the launch of MobileMe was a failure, Snow Leopard has issues and is clearly rushed and Leopard was deferred to allow the iPhone to be released. Picking on one and ignoring the other's faults seems a little unfair.
 
BongoBanger said:
I agree that Microsoft managed a lot of things badly but so have Apple - the launch of MobileMe was a failure, Snow Leopard has issues and is clearly rushed and Leopard was deferred to allow the iPhone to be released. Picking on one and ignoring the other's faults seems a little unfair.
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The fact that an OS was released with issues seems more like a truism than an interesting fact. If we look at Apple's numbers, we can get a sense of how well or poorly it is being run: customer satisfaction is very high, Apple's top line is growing and Apple's margins are very good and continue to improve. Seems like a "damn good job" to me...
 
BRLawyer said:
So, where are the ABSOLUTE MORONS that keep on criticizing Apple for selling the best products in the whole damn industry? Where are the PUNDITS that keep pronouncing the company dead, or proposing stupid lineups that 99% of the market don't want or need?

Once more and AS ALWAYS, Apple leads the way as the best, most profitable and most successful personal IT company EVER.

Thank you SJ, for blowing away any of the benighted analysts' predictions again, and for demonstrating once and for all that the company knows EXACTLY what people want, despite the ridiculous comments by some of your detractors here in this forum.

MS IS ABSOLUTELY DEAD. AND SO IS DELL. GO APPLE!
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14nohoh.png
 
LagunaSol said:
You may want to check out the graph of their stock price over the last 5+ years. Can you say flatline? Not a ringing endorsement of their reinvestment strategy. Not that logic will appeal to you if it's to Microsoft's discredit.
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To be fair, stock price is generally influenced by potential growth, isn't it? And if your market share is 90%+, there isn't much room left for growth.

Upgrade cycles do bring in lots of money, but aren't going to set investor's pulses racing in the same way hordes of new users would.
 
Winni said:
What Xbox debacle? Did I miss something?
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Apparently you did...you might want to look into how much money Microsoft has blown on this project.

As for "best console on the market" - not quite. The PS3 adds Blu-Ray, wireless networking and free online play, for the same price as the Xbox. Which is why I finally bought one.

You'd have to be a blind Microsoft "fanboy" (to use the word so popular on these forums) not to see that the PS3 offers a far better value proposition now (and a much more capable console), unless you absolutely have to have Halo or Netflix.
 
mags631 said:
The fact that an OS was released with issues seems more like a truism than an interesting fact. If we look at Apple's numbers, we can get a sense of how well or poorly it is being run: customer satisfaction is very high, Apple's top line is growing and Apple's margins are very good and continue to improve. Seems like a "damn good job" to me...
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Absolutely as are some divisions of Microsoft and other companies. The thing that Apple have that which they don't is an absence of management by committee - what Steve says goes, end of story. This is working very well just now and makes Apple a bit more agile than their competitors who are slower to action, but it's risky and it's key man dependent. That's why Apple's stock drops when Steve isn't around.

whooleytoo said:
To be fair, stock price is generally influenced by potential growth, isn't it? And if your market share is 90%+, there isn't much room left for growth.

Upgrade cycles do bring in lots of money, but aren't going to set investor's pulses racing in the same way hordes of new users would.
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Spot on. That's the other reason why APPL is so volatile.
 
DanielSw said:
Pie charts mean nothing compared with statistical CHANGE, which is the main story of this article, and the story of Apple's conference call. Apple's stats are UP. That can't be refuted with any graphics.
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Apple has a great OS and a fantastic product aimed squarely at the luxury market, but my chart was in rebuttal to the comment "Apple makes the products people want," along with other comments concerning "the death of Microsoft and Dell." Market share for PC's say otherwise.
 
Given how Apple's desktop lines are fading fast (as a percentage of their overall sales), perhaps we might see some innovation on the desktop after all.

The old line "a fast, inexpensive mini-tower would cannibalise high-margin Pro sales" holds less truth when desktop sales are fading fast anyway.

I'd love to see a new desktop Mac. My current MBP is on its last legs; and I don't really want to get another laptop; I've had more issues with this MBP than with my other 5 (desktop) Macs put together.
 
Fastshutter said:
Apple has a great OS and a fantastic product aimed squarely at the luxury market, but my chart was in rebuttal to the comment "Apple makes the products people want," along with other comments concerning "the death of Microsoft and Dell." Market share for PC's say otherwise.
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Anyone saying death of Microsoft obviously is a fan boy.

Just stick to the topic at hand folks.
 
LagunaSol said:
Apparently you did...you might want to look into how much money Microsoft has blown on this project.

As for "best console on the market" - not quite. The PS3 adds Blu-Ray, wireless networking and free online play, for the same price as the Xbox. Which is why I finally bought one.

You'd have to be a blind Microsoft "fanboy" (to use the word so popular on these forums) not to see that the PS3 offers a far better value proposition now (and a much more capable console), unless you absolutely have to have Halo or Netflix.
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Value isn't what people buy into.

Why do you think the Wii is the most popular console right now and it doesn't even play dvds?
 
BongoBanger said:
Actually it's more to do with stock buy back and dividend payments. As for the Xbox, that cost money but 'catch fire'? Come on, it had it's faults - which have been corrected although it took far too long to do so - but that wasn't one of them.

You also might want to keep up with the T-Mobile data situation as it seems its been recovered. As opposed to, say, those unfrotunates with SL guest account errors.

Microsoft have enough things wrong with aspects of their strategy - particularly mobile communications and search - but let's not get carried away.
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Lol, these guys are as deluded as most rabid MS fanboys. Nobody is saying **** about Apple yet these 3 or 4 guys are crying out loud "lol death to MS, ballmer must be shot, the xbox was a financial failure, blah blah blah, PC sucks."

I don't even have an Xbox, I have a PS3, but prove that the Xbox is a success in the console market is the fact that it still sells more than the PS3, and just the fact that some people just go ahead and buy the console again and again even after it fails.

btw, if you want to accuse me of something, call me a huge Sony fanboy, because I actually am.
 
Fastshutter said:
14nohoh.png
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:rolleyes:

As a good friend of mine likes to say, a million flies on a pile of sh*t can't be wrong.

Regardless, that red includes lots and lots of corporate buyers of servers and workstations who are choosing Windows PCs pretty much on autopilot, just buying what they've always bought or whatever the corporate overlords are demanding of them or whatever their legacy software and systems require. If you narrowed that pie chart down to show just consumers who are actively engaged in choosing what they think best suits their needs, it wouldn't look quite so lopsided.
 
inkswamp said:
:rolleyes:

As a good friend of mine likes to say, a million flies on a pile of sh*t can't be wrong.
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Does that apply to iPods too?

Regardless, that red includes lots and lots of corporate buyers of servers and workstations who are choosing Windows PCs pretty much on autopilot, just buying what they've always bought or whatever the corporate overlords are demanding of them or whatever their legacy software and systems require. If you narrowed that pie chart down to show just consumers who are actively engaged in choosing what they think best suits their needs, it wouldn't look quite so lopsided.
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Actually it wouldn't. The idea that we buy Windows because we always have is horribly misguided. Every refresh a TCO analysis is done based on the software and hardware vendors' latest propositions - we do this for every aspect of business (we just switched from O2 to Vodafone fro example for mobile comms). Time after time Microsoft an the third party OEMs offer the most compelling and cost effective solution. Sorry, but a few exceptions aside, Apple and commercial desktop Linux just aren't at the races yet.

Bluntly we don't care what system it is, only what it costs. The same applies to most consumers otherwise Apple would have more than the high single digit market share in consumer PCs that it has.
 
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