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Go ahead and pick my arguments apart. Most don’t understand the current value versus potential value along a timeline. Tim Cook created instant value added but by lacking on the most innovative and brightest people and firing one and driving the other to the point of leaving. Thereas the long-term outlook 20 years from now suggests AAPL will be a shell of itself. Unless Vision Pro is the ultimate technology that leads Apple forward. It could be. But that’s one bet and no others by Tim’s Apple.

I say AAPL is worth less 20 years from today than today. Tim sold AAPL’s would to the devil. Got short-term growth at loss of long-term value by not hiring and spending on future technologies and innovations.
So what is Vision Pro? What is AS? These aren't future technologies and innovations? You prattle on about how Tim has ruined Apple but you can't make an argument beyond cheerleading for Forstall. Seriously? That's the best you can do? If you think Tim is so terrible, make a case. It's very easy to make the case for why Tim has been great for Apple. The numbers don't lie. Multiple successful product launches have happened under his watch. It's laughable that you say others "don't understand the current value versus potential value along a timeline" when you can't make a single argument, much less support it.
 
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They are too expensive especially here in Europe. They've gone from just about to affordable to out of reach for the majority.
In Italy, 15" MacBook Air with 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD is priced at 2.109 € after taxes... A bit too much in my opinion. It should start at 16/512 for his 1.650 € base prices, that is still more expensive that most Win based notebook.
 
WOW! Almost $20 Billion Dollars in profit! Pretty impressive! Even tho sales are down iPhone is still killing it.
When I first moved here, I’d say maybe 2 out of 5 people had android phones. Mostly older folks. These days, in 2023, almost everyone has iPhone — young or old. I don’t think I’ve seen an android phone in months.
 
I suspect they will see a continuous decline in iPhone and iPad sales. The price increases are too high for what they offer. And people are buying older devices, refurbished devices or second hand, or just holding onto their devices for longer.
Increasing iPhone prices will only help so far. They'll have to push services a lot more.
 
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You know, in a reasonable world that would be enough. They don't need to keep squeezing us for higher profit margins and making the user experience worse to try to push subscription revenue
 
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Fun fact: at the end of Tim Cook career as Apple ceo he will not have released a single product half as successful as iPhone, iPad, or Mac which were all released under jobs.
Who cares ? What we want from Apple are polished tools to do our work, and Tim's delivered on that front !

I’ve never bought a single device while Jobs was around, but many many devices since Tim took over: go figure.
 
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And that ugly yellow Services slice is why we are getting so many popup ads in the TV app, and why no music service except Apple Music is supported on HomePod. I really wish they could find another hardware product to take up a big slice of that pie. I know it was scary for them when the iPhone was 80% of it but the iPhone was a comparatively better experience for it.
 
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Fun fact: at the end of Tim Cook career as Apple ceo he will not have released a single product half as successful as iPhone, iPad, or Mac which were all released under jobs.

Just so you know, the Apple Watch was launched under Tim Cooks leadership. I think considering it’s sales you could say it’s as successful as the iPad no?
 
No, you’re not. You are locked in by your own choice, which you are making because the available alternatives are worse. Plenty of people live their lives through those worse alternatives, and do fine. But you choose the better option, which makes Apple more money, and that makes Tim the world’s greatest CEO by any meaningful measure.

I never understood the people who eant Apple to supply everything Android or Windows does. If you like iOS, why do you want to turn it into Android? The reason iOS is better, is BECAUSE it is more focused. If Apple used the same “throw it at the wall and see what sticks” tactics as the rest, they wouldn’t be Apple, they would be just another option in the grey mass of manufacturers that is the Android/Windows ecosystem.
I agree with most of the above. And Android/Windows are no choices for me just to make that clear. But for example, I have an M1 Mac mini which is still fast enough for me but limited in its internal storage now due to more complex video editing tasks. I do not want to be forced to solve this by having to buy external storage. For 4 Macs i have used for video editing since 1998, I solved this by increasing internal capacity with 3rd party to extend their lives. If Tim were indeed the best CEO and not exclusively driven by $$$ needs, the consumer would have more choices.
 
Just wait until Apple will be forced to allow side loading and see how many will keep paying more for the same apps and subscriptions just to give Apple some revenue stream 😂
This is why I am actually pretty excited to see how Apple will implement sideloading, because you know they are mindful of the financial ramifications of users going around iTunes billing, and how Apple plans to stem any potential loss in revenue from this.
 
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Moore's Law is basically dead and Apple lacks big ideas.

Users upgrade less often.

Thus, Apple revenues slow.
 
No, you’re not. You are locked in by your own choice, which you are making because the available alternatives are worse. Plenty of people live their lives through those worse alternatives, and do fine. But you choose the better option, which makes Apple more money, and that makes Tim the world’s greatest CEO by any meaningful measure.

I never understood the people who eant Apple to supply everything Android or Windows does. If you like iOS, why do you want to turn it into Android? The reason iOS is better, is BECAUSE it is more focused. If Apple used the same “throw it at the wall and see what sticks” tactics as the rest, they wouldn’t be Apple, they would be just another option in the grey mass of manufacturers that is the Android/Windows ecosystem.
Apple have some advantages, but the same can be said of Windows and I suppose of Android (I never had Android devices). For example, integration between Apple devices is excellent. But MS has an excellent business / enterprise ecosystem that Apple haven't been able to replicate. Also Windows has a better ecosystem for gaming. I don't think Apple alternatives are worst, as you said. They are different, and sometimes, are better than Apple offerings.
 
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Apple have some advantages, but the same can be said of Windows and I suppose of Android (I never had Android devices). For example, integration between Apple devices is excellent. But MS has an excellent business / enterprise ecosystem that Apple haven't been able to replicate. Also Windows has a better ecosystem for gaming. I don't think Apple alternatives are worst, as you said. They are different, and sometimes, are better than Apple offerings.
I basically agree, my point is, if you feel locked in, it is because for you specifically, the alternatives are worse If you have use cases where the alternatives are better, what’s stopping you other than your desire to enjoy the great user experience of Apple? If anything you have lockin the other way round - there are lots of things you can do with Android and Windows that you cannot do with Apple, so for many it is not an option to go with Apple. I can’t choose Apple for my work computer, for instance. Lockin is not unique to Apple, and it is fighting against it just as much as benefitting from it.
 
I agree with most of the above. And Android/Windows are no choices for me just to make that clear. But for example, I have an M1 Mac mini which is still fast enough for me but limited in its internal storage now due to more complex video editing tasks. I do not want to be forced to solve this by having to buy external storage. For 4 Macs i have used for video editing since 1998, I solved this by increasing internal capacity with 3rd party to extend their lives. If Tim were indeed the best CEO and not exclusively driven by $$$ needs, the consumer would have more choices.
I fundamentally disagree that creating more products inherently makes a better CEO. And, Steve Jobs was all about creating LESS products, even to a fault. I 100% believe that if Jobs was still alive Apple would have less SKUs. He is the one who wanted everyone to adapt to whichever user experience Apple decides is optimal, rather than confirming to what the user asks for. Today’s Apple product management is listening a lot more to what the users want, than under Jobs. Your argument is that Cook is worse than Jobs, yet you are asking him to be even less like Jobs. Doesn’t make sense.

“You’re Holding it wrong” was Jobs.
 
Moore's Law is basically dead and Apple lacks big ideas.

Users upgrade less often.

Thus, Apple revenues slow.
Please look at Samsung’s financial report. Apple is doing great, given the circumstances. Again, please show me these great ideas that the competition is coming up with. Folding phones? Puh-lease.
 
They are too expensive especially here in Europe. They've gone from just about to affordable to out of reach for the majority.
No they haven’t. They have become out of reach for you. Apple’s market share in Europe is up, not down.
 
All premium notebook sales have tanked here in Europe, especially Apple with their rip off prices and hilariously outrageously priced CTO options like RAM, storage etc.

You can still get a good deal for baseline spec M1/M2 based machines on Amazon but who the hell wants a 8GB/256GB baseline PoS in 2023? It's why they are sitting in warehouses gathering dust.
Please show data to support this. (Spoiler: you can’t, because you’re wrong).
 
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And that ugly yellow Services slice is why we are getting so many popup ads in the TV app, and why no music service except Apple Music is supported on HomePod. I really wish they could find another hardware product to take up a big slice of that pie. I know it was scary for them when the iPhone was 80% of it but the iPhone was a comparatively better experience for it.
Meanwhile, in HP land:
 
Fun fact: at the end of Tim Cook career as Apple ceo he will not have released a single product half as successful as iPhone, iPad, or Mac which were all released under jobs.
And I wouldn't have it any other way.

Different people are needed at different points in a company history. Jobs was right for his era, but he would have been a disaster for the Cook era, where the greatest challenges that Apple currently faces are not other tech competitors like Samsung, Google or Microsoft, but thorny legal and political situations in various countries around the world.

Or remember how it felt like every other tech giant was doing mass layoffs, save Apple. At a time when so many people here were banging the table and demanding that Apple acquire Netflix or release a folding phone or heck, even a round smartwatch, Apple has shown that they continue to have the discipline to not be hoodwinked by the "tech flavour of the month" and say no to what would otherwise be bad business decisions (for Apple).

Tim Cook is the steady hand that we need to ensure that Apple remains successful for a good many years to come. He has refined the culture at Apple and expanded it, and has done as fine a job as any CEO in American history, if not world business history.

He's Eisenhower, not Churchill.
 
Meanwhile, in HP land:

Yeah but that’s HP. HP has been the bane of my existence my entire career. Every single time I see that logo I know it’s trouble, and not just with printers. I absolutely believe HP would do something like that and far worse.

The sad thing is they keep getting away with it. If I turn my back for two seconds my users will buy an HP printer and all their other garbage hardware because it’s ripping off Apple’s designs. Their all in one computers for example (I hope they aren’t still making them) had all the disadvantages of iMacs without any of the advantages.

Triggered!
 
And I wouldn't have it any other way.

Different people are needed at different points in a company history. Jobs was right for his era, but he would have been a disaster for the Cook era, where the greatest challenges that Apple currently faces are not other tech competitors like Samsung, Google or Microsoft, but thorny legal and political situations in various countries around the world.

Or remember how it felt like every other tech giant was doing mass layoffs, save Apple. At a time when so many people here were banging the table and demanding that Apple acquire Netflix or release a folding phone or heck, even a round smartwatch, Apple has shown that they continue to have the discipline to not be hoodwinked by the "tech flavour of the month" and say no to what would otherwise be bad business decisions (for Apple).

Tim Cook is the steady hand that we need to ensure that Apple remains successful for a good many years to come. He has refined the culture at Apple and expanded it, and has done as fine a job as any CEO in American history, if not world business history.

He's Eisenhower, not Churchill.

More like Lyndon Johnson.
 
How Apple did versus Refinitiv estimates:
  • EPS: $1.26 vs. $1.19 estimated
  • Revenue: $81.80B vs. $81.69B estimated, down 1% year-over-year
  • iPhone revenue: $39.67B vs. $39.91B estimated, down 2% year-over-year
  • Mac revenue: $6.84B vs. $6.62B estimated, down 7% year-over-year
  • iPad revenue: $5.79B vs. $6.41B estimated, down 20% year-over-year
  • Other Products revenue: $8.28B vs. $8.39B estimated, up 2% year-over-year
  • Services revenue: $21.21B vs. $20.76B estimated, up 8% year-over-year
  • Gross margin: 44.5% vs. 44.2% estimated



Apple now has $166.5 billion in cash on hand, up fractionally from the $166.33 billion they reported having last quarter, and they're still only paying a $0.24 per share dividend? Raise the dividend, or give a one-time large dividend payout like Costco does.
I am wondering if you base your advice simply on the cash on hand balance.

You make no mention of any other factors / uses of their cash. In order to assess their cash activity and have a validated opinion you would a cash flow statement covering at least the last five years and their cash flow projections for the current year and a few years out. That would tell how they're cash is used, it sources, where it is going, the amounts involved in future commitments, R&D, civic and philanthropic uses and so on.

$166 bln in the bank does not mean, in any way, that Apple has anything close to that to do with as they may please.

Apple's confirmed record of returning capital to investors and levels of ROE is one, if not the best, in the corporate/publicly held business world.

All that said, I have significant holdings of Apple I have accumulated over the years and I would love to see a meaningful increase in the dividend versus other forms of returning capital. However, I don't think we have too much of a chance seeing that until there is meaningful positive change in the current economic environment.
 
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