Thank you, i thought it was nice.
No developer should care about breaking their contract with Apple because Apple doesn't care about ethics they care about $$$$$$$
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Apple Requiring Developers to Return DTK Mac Minis by March 31
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Thank you, i thought it was nice.
No developer should care about breaking their contract with Apple because Apple doesn't care about ethics they care about $$$$$$$
Apple cares way more about ethics health privacy etc than any others companyThank you, i thought it was nice.
No developer should care about breaking their contract with Apple because Apple doesn't care about ethics they care about $$$$$$$
Good luck with that defense in court.Thank you, i thought it was nice.
No developer should care about breaking their contract with Apple because Apple doesn't care about ethics they care about $$$$$$$
No as explained before they are not getting "a lot less" as the lease was in USD 500 so there was a conversion on the loan.
According to Google, on July 30, 2020 the conversion rate from $ to € was 0.84 (€420) while in on 27 Feb 2021 it is 0.83 (€415). So they are crying over €5 or 6.04 USD.
It's ridiculous.
US developers got as much as they paid, non US developers didn’t. Maybe that’s ok with you, it’s not ok with me.
I made the point sufficiently clear both times. Keep calling names and resorting to hyperbole as much as you want.
Doesn’t seem to be the case. As stated in the article:No as explained before they are not getting "a lot less" as the lease was in USD 500 so there was a conversion on the loan.
According to Google, on July 30, 2020 the conversion rate from $ to € was 0.84 (€420) while in on 27 Feb 2021 it is 0.83 (€415). So they are crying over €5 or 6.04 USD.
“Apple is also converting its ‘$500 credit’ to local currency — €412 here, of the €539 paid for the program — which is a lot less of a refund than the ~full credit US developers are getting. All in all, this DTK program has been a pretty appalling developer experience — Steve Troughton-Smith (@stroughtonsmith)”
Crying over 127€ it’s a different matter.
The Steve Troughton-Smith tweet is not in the repeat of the article in the thread and a quick check shows the tweet no longer exists.
€539 is USD 650.69 which even with VAT looks abnormally high. Everything I have looked into points to the Universal App Quick Start Program page which expressly states Cost: 500 USD.
This along with the fact the Tweet is now gone raises more red flags than a 25 car pile up on the Indianapolis 500 rase track.
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I’m not getting 100% credit of what I payed to join the program either and I live in the US. I paid $531.25 ($500+sales tax) to join the Universal Quick Start program. Why shouldn’t I get sales tax back if British and Europeans should get VAT?
The complaints are ridiculous. Apple went above and beyond what was necessary.
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As I pointed out in the revision of my post the Steve Troughton-Smith tweet that gave this €539 is not in the repeat of the article in the thread and a quick check shows the tweet no longer exists.
More over every attempt I use gets me back to Universal App Quick Start Program which expressly states Cost: 500 USD
I suspect the €539 may have included any VAT. As I said before according to Google, on July 30, 2020 the conversion rate from $ to € was 0.84 (€420) while in on 27 Feb 2021 it is 0.83 (€415).
A trip to Germany's version of Apple's site has this for the lowest end of the Mac mini: "Einschließlich MwSt. und ges. Gebühren i. H. v. ca. 139,00 €.*" which per Google translate is "Including VAT and total Fees i. H. v. approx € 139.00."
According to Google the lowest EU VAT can be is 15% (ouch) but the lowest anybody actually goes is 18% (double ouch) and this doesn't include any import fees that Apple likely has to pay.
Spain has much the same thing and it seems every country in the EU has VAT included in the price! More evidence the 127€ is VAT.
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Yes. The translation is “Includes VAT and mandatory fees to the amount of approx.”
Yes. European consumer prices include VAT.
Well, I didn’t apply for the program, so I can’t know for sure. Also I don’t think Troughton-Smith has any reason to make stuff like that up.
If the difference were indeed 5€ I’d agree it’s not worth the outcry. If it’s 120€, I’ll say it is.
But is this difference wholly down to exchange rate differences between the time of purchase and time of credit reimbursement?
If so, you can hardly blame Apple for variations in ForEx rates. The dollar-to-Euro exchange rate could just have easily moved the other way. It's a business risk that everyone understands.
I don't think Troughton-Smith "made stuff up" but based on how high VAT is for the Mac mini is many EU countries (low of 17% in Luxembourg to a high of 27% in Hungary) and the fact the MacMini at USD 699 is seeing around € 139.00 in VAT (As can be seen via Germany's version of Apple's website) a VAT of 120€ for USD 500 is well within reason. And that is ignoring whatever tariffs exist which also drive up the price of US goods (which IIRC a lease would be exempt from).
The twitter post was taken down for a reason thought we don't know why but the fact it was taken down suggests that at best there was something factually wrong or misleading which the EU members are AFAIU far less tolerant of that sort of thing then we here in the states are.
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I do make an effort to respect authorities, but that Steve Troughton-Smith sure loves to complain. The DTK program may not have been executed perfectly, but what in life is? Apple gave a lot for what has basically become a freebie. Developers got a lot of value from the program, regardless of it's shortcomings.
I'm running Catalina on a 2013 MacBook Air, and it runs like new. That's 5 years past your 2 year timeframe. What is your prediction based on? That it's an ARM processor and not x86?
Here, folks, we have Entitlement 101. Making baseless claims that the machines cost "only $50" a pop is completely missing the point of YEARS of PAID staff hours that led up to release of the M1 machines. Costs of products go far beyond the hardware they are made of.
And, no, developers knew they were not buying the machines. They knew they were borrowing them. Getting back $500 in credit is a gift, not an entitlement.
It wouldn't be wholly untrue to say it's to do with being an ARM processor and not an intel x86.
The reason your 2013 MBA runs like new isn't because it's good, it's because progress stalled so much that newer machines are hardly better.
Looking at geekbench 4 scores...
A 2008 MBA (1.8GHz) - 1239 (SC) 2065 (MC)
A 2013 MBA (1.7GHz) - 3341 (SC) 6233 (MC)
Big jump. How about 5 years later?
A 2013 MBA (1.7GHz) - 3341 (SC) 6233 (MC)
A 2019 MBA (1.6GHz) - 3971 (SC) 7379 (MC)
Not so much. From almost 3x the single core performance, to not-even 20% better.
The A12Z in the iPad Pro (and therefore the DTK, too) scores 5023 (SC) 17778 (MC)
The M1 MBA scores 5698 (SC) 22019 (MC). If Apple sustains similar growth year on year, it'll be left in the dust soon. 6 years of progress in 6 months.
This is somewhat misleading, as Apple moved to a smaller performance tier between the 2013 and 2019. The MacBook Air started out in 2008 at a 17W TDP; that 2019 one has a 7W TDP. If they had stuck to similar CPUs, there'd be more of a jump.
Still, there is no doubt that Intel had a poor ~2015-2020 in terms of performance improvements.
Yes, they went from U to Y models with the 2018 redesign. But is it so misleading? The performance didn't decrease between the 2017 MBA and the 2018/2019 one.
2017: 3555 (SC) 6802 (MC)
So, would a processor from the U family have shown significantly larger performance gains if it was put in the 2018 MBA?
Yeah, but that's only because the 2017 model was still on a 2015 CPU. Apple could've given it a two-generations-newer CPU and chose not to, perhaps precisely because they knew they were going to introduce a new design with a smaller CPU, and that this would cause a weird performance decrease.
Yes, especially at multi-core, because at that point, an 18W CPU from Intel had four cores instead of two.
But even single-threaded performance is 24% higher on the 18W CPU.
(You can basically look at the two-port 13-inch MacBook Pro models, as a peek of "what the Air could've been".)
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Did you even read my comment, it said:Since in 27 Feb 2021 €500 is US$603.60 they actually are getting more than their counterpart in the US...and they are still complaining. How in the freaking world does that make any sense...or cents?!
"Apple is also converting its ‘$500 credit’ to local currency — €412 here, of the €539 paid for the program"
I have addressed this several times. Here are the Cliff notes:
First, every source I have checked shows the program itself is USD 500 period. I can find no other value give by Apple for it.
Second, the twitter post this "€412 here, of the €539 paid for the program" comes from has been taken down. It doesn't even appear in the otherwise verbatim repost of the announcement at the beginning of this thread.
Third, as the tweets by our own President Trump prove anyone can post anything to Twitter no matter how off the wall gonzo (and in his case untrue) it is
Fourth, the EU has VATs which varies a low of 17% in Luxembourg to a high of 27% in Hungary. The VAT for a MacMini (USD 699) is in the 139.00 Euro range. So a VAT of 120 Eruos on a USD 500 item is well within reason
Fifth, it has been pointed out that VAT can be charge to services not just actual sales and in the UK is 20% for those.
Sixth, a US user has pointed out he isn't getting the taxes he had to pay for the kit either.
Yes they should care because they could be sued.Thank you, i thought it was nice.
No developer should care about breaking their contract with Apple because Apple doesn't care about ethics they care about $$$$$$$