Apple Requiring Developers to Return DTK Mac Minis by March 31

[Kilibee]

VAT is not an issue for the original unit, because there is none in a loan. It might be however, for the credit. Nonetheless, I think that – again – some people @Apple were not really thinking about this. While not a huge issue, another missed opportunity in a minor matter.

People who try to keep the unit are utterly stupid: No matter how much of a collectors item it might become, this is still Apple‘s unit. Nobody but Apple can own this legally, and they will send law enforcement for anybody who tries to sell one. And of course they will end your developer contract long before that.

 

[justperry]

Apple listened and upped it to $500. How's that, anti-complainers?

Except if you live outside the US, you paid €500 but got less

"Developers will now receive a $500 USD credit after the DTK is received, but Apple is not adjusting that amount for developers who are in other countries. Each developer is receiving the equivalent of $500, and as developer Steve Troughton-Smith points out, that does not match the original cost of the DTK for some developers."

"Apple is also converting its ‘$500 credit’ to local currency — €412 here, of the €539 paid for the program — which is a lot less of a refund than the ~full credit US developers are getting. All in all, this DTK program has been a pretty appalling developer experience — Steve Troughton-Smith (@stroughtonsmith) February 26, 2021"

 

[timbals]

Fully reimbursing some developers (those that paid in USD) and not others is unfair by apple and smells like penny pinching.

All they are doing is annoying people that helped them through one of the biggest transitions they will ever go through.

Don’t forget it’s just store credit, which means it can only be used on a product apple has a huge profit margin on.

I can only assume the DTK was a big failure (the platform was unusable for a lot of developers) and the VP responsible is trying to limit the cost of the failed program.

Despite all of the good press I wouldn’t be buying an M1 Mac due to the issues with monitor support, ssd wearing and compatibility issues with some development tools.

 

[femike]

Apple should be giving the developers $500 cheque (or full refund no matter what country) not store credit when the machine is returned. As with individuals, the more money a company makes the more greedy they get. The developers have helped Apple to test the M1 macs and get apps ready. No gratitude from a trillion dollar company.

 

[Manzanito]

Apple now giving the developers a $500 credit dollar for dollar and they are still complaining.... unreal...

If you read the entire article, outside US developers are getting considerably less that what they paid for. Not fair.

 

[Marshall73]

So Apple are giving devs back (assuming they want/need to purchase an m1 mac) the money that they spent on the mediocre hardware that they have to send back

Why are you making it sound like the deal of the century?

When the developers signed up to borrow a piece of test kit they new it had to go back. There was also no mention of any return of money or other compensation for taking part. If a developer feels let down then that is because of their own false expectations.

 

[Manzanito]

Two words - sales tax. Why should Apple refund a portion of the cost they're not entitled to reclaim themselves, having long since handed it over to the relevant tax man?

Apple is not forced to do anything, not even giving 1 cent back in credit, per the contract that was signed.

With that out of the way, they are choosing to give that credit so that when the next architecture change comes developers will be willing to lease the dtk. It benefits apple having tons of apps ready on day one.

With the profit margins apple has, probably it won’t cost apple once cent this gesture, they just will make less money off the handful of units sold through this program.

 

[Maximara]

Other than for readers to side with developers and hate on Apple about this what is the point of making this public news? This is a contract between Apple and the Developers.

Two things. First IIRC Apple originally said the developers would have a year to use these Macs and second, originally only giving a $200 credit on a $500 machine that would have to be returned was PRwise dumber than a rock...and that might be an insult to the rock.

 

[liketom]

Yeah £360 credit towards either a new iPad or maybe the next iMac, much better then nothing that I was expecting so thanks Apple. The pickup by DHL is useful for me too! will get a text when pickup will happen and that's it! no messing around having to goto the Post Office and play what's in the box bingo.

 

[bobmans]

I really don’t understand how any developer could complain about this. The original terms clearly stated you were supposed to return the unit. Apple is being generous by giving you $500 store credit for returning it early. You still have the choice to return it at the 1 year mark for $0 if you prefer the old terms you literally agreed to. You signed a contract so you either send it back early and get back $500 store credit or send it back after a full year mark like stated in your contract and get back $0.

 

[Abazigal]

Two things. First IIRC Apple originally said the developers would have a year to use these Macs and second, originally only giving a $200 credit on a $500 machine that would have to be returned was PRwise dumber than a rock...and that might be an insult to the rock.

Apple could have just done nothing and told developers to abide by the terms of the agreement. They wouldn't need to fork out a cent and nobody would have any reason to complain.

 

[nicho]

Apple is not forced to do anything, not even giving 1 cent back in credit, per the contract that was signed.

With that out of the way, they are choosing to give that credit so that when the next architecture change comes developers will be willing to lease the dtk. It benefits apple having tons of apps ready on day one.

With the profit margins apple has, probably it won’t cost apple once cent this gesture, they just will make less money off the handful of units sold through this program.

Not sure why my post was quoted...

 

[sirdir]

I have to wonder, why is Apple so desperate to get these back? Do they have plans for them other than recycling?

You'd think if some dev really wants to keep theirs as a memento, it should be allowed. Heck it saves Apple money since they don't have to give out that $500 credit.

What would those plans be? If they needed them, they could build a billion.

 

[flashy-cat]

Wow. I'm glad I returned that sucker 2 or 3 weeks after first receiving it, for cash, not for Apple Store 'credit'.
Developers paid $500 bucks to break their backs re-building apps for the new M1 and after all that they can't even keep the machine they paid for?!?! WTF Apple. How lame.. These Mac Minis were likely recycled hardware to begin with and I can't imagine that they cost Apple more than $50 a pop to produce. What in the world are they going to do with this 'buyback' of the developer units? Is it possible that there's something 'wrong' with the developer M1's that they want to bring back in-house to prevent outside security firms from discovering?? That was my first thought when hearing this. It is odd to me that they're going through a buy-back program to re-acquire crap Mac Minis that were likely refurbished with the M1s added.

And what's this BS about $500 credit? Why would anyone want $500 credit over $500 US Dollars back for the hardware they originally thought they were buying?

I'm assuming this is a joke from some entitled millennial. On the chance it's not, please list your applications so we can avoid them in the future.

 

[LillDrutten]

Wow. I'm glad I returned that sucker 2 or 3 weeks after first receiving it, for cash, not for Apple Store 'credit'.
Developers paid $500 bucks to break their backs re-building apps for the new M1 and after all that they can't even keep the machine they paid for?!?! WTF Apple. How lame.. These Mac Minis were likely recycled hardware to begin with and I can't imagine that they cost Apple more than $50 a pop to produce. What in the world are they going to do with this 'buyback' of the developer units? Is it possible that there's something 'wrong' with the developer M1's that they want to bring back in-house to prevent outside security firms from discovering?? That was my first thought when hearing this. It is odd to me that they're going through a buy-back program to re-acquire crap Mac Minis that were likely refurbished with the M1s added.

And what's this BS about $500 credit? Why would anyone want $500 credit over $500 US Dollars back for the hardware they originally thought they were buying?

This devices might be a collectors item in a few years. They do mark significant change in computer history.

 

[svanstrom]

Two words - sales tax. Why should Apple refund a portion of the cost they're not entitled to reclaim themselves, having long since handed it over to the relevant tax man?

That's not how sales tax works; at least not unless your accountant is incompetent.

If Apple were to refund the money they would get the "long since handed over" money back from the government; so no worries there. And a similar setup is possible also with "store credit"; so they get their money back from the government for that initial purchase, and then pay those same taxes for another purchase instead (which is just paperwork where the numbers basically balance themselves, instead of every cent being transfered back and forth).

So taxes can basically be completely ignored by everyone except the accountants/lawyers that has to make sure that Apple uses the right language as far as how they give out this new credit.

 

[OnawaAfrica]

Apple should be giving the developers $500 cheque (or full refund no matter what country) not store credit when the machine is returned. As with individuals, the more money a company makes the more greedy they get. The developers have helped Apple to test the M1 macs and get apps ready. No gratitude from a trillion dollar company.

they did not help to test the M1 Macs as the CPU in the DTK is a iPad SoC. I don't think the DTK where failures. They have served their Purpose to port Apps over to ARM and that was their one and only Purpose. They where not to test anything else than the Apps who are supposed to Run on ARM. So no M1 Testing with DTK

 

[svanstrom]

This devices might be a collectors item in a few years. They do mark significant change in computer history.

With "a few years" basically meaning "for my kids or grandkids".

 

[OnawaAfrica]

Apple specifically stated that they loan the hardware to you so if u keep it that clearly Theft. So its like u would go into apple store and steal a Mac mini. You sure u want do that by keeping the DTK?

 

[makr]

Wow. I'm glad I returned that sucker 2 or 3 weeks after first receiving it, for cash, not for Apple Store 'credit'.
Developers paid $500 bucks to break their backs re-building apps for the new M1 and after all that they can't even keep the machine they paid for?!?! WTF Apple. How lame.. These Mac Minis were likely recycled hardware to begin with and I can't imagine that they cost Apple more than $50 a pop to produce. What in the world are they going to do with this 'buyback' of the developer units? Is it possible that there's something 'wrong' with the developer M1's that they want to bring back in-house to prevent outside security firms from discovering?? That was my first thought when hearing this. It is odd to me that they're going through a buy-back program to re-acquire crap Mac Minis that were likely refurbished with the M1s added.

And what's this BS about $500 credit? Why would anyone want $500 credit over $500 US Dollars back for the hardware they originally thought they were buying?

You should read more.

 

[OnawaAfrica]

You should read more.

I think he just lied that he had a DTK cause clearly he doesn't know the true facts about the Program and the Terms and Conditions.

about this one "And what's this BS about $500 credit? Why would anyone want $500 credit over $500 US Dollars back for the hardware they originally thought they were buying?"

DTK where not to buy. the 500$ are the one u pay for Getting a DTK LOANED not BUYING

 

[metabob]

I have to wonder, why is Apple so desperate to get these back? Do they have plans for them other than recycling?

You'd think if some dev really wants to keep theirs as a memento, it should be allowed. Heck it saves Apple money since they don't have to give out that $500 credit.

My thoughts exactly, it's not like the money is significant to Apple in any way.

Perhaps the devices contain something Apple would rather get back. Maybe some firmware, keys, or something like that is present on these devices (but not on production devices), and Apple would like them back instead of having the devices perused by hackers.

However, I think this is most likely just a case of Apple being Apple. Nobody, ever, gets to keep non-production hardware. End of story.

 

[OnawaAfrica]

My thoughts exactly, it's not like the money is significant to Apple in any way.

More likely, the devices contain something Apple would rather get back. Maybe some firmware, secret keys, or something like that is present on these devices, and Apple would like them back instead of having the devices perused by hackers.

they want it back cause its their property. You got it on loan so u have to give it back. Nothing else.
If I loan my Car to you I also want it back.
why do People treat DTK as if they can keep it? the Agreement clearly states that its LOANED to you and HAS TO BE RETURNED. so there is no reason to debate on that weather u return it or not.

 

[Maximara]

Apple could have just done nothing and told developers to abide by the terms of the agreement. They wouldn't need to fork out a cent and nobody would have any reason to complain.

You don't understand. Yes Apple could do that but from a PR stance it would have been dumb especially with the US and EU in the mood they are in.

 

[Maximara]

I have to wonder, why is Apple so desperate to get these back? Do they have plans for them other than recycling?

You'd think if some dev really wants to keep theirs as a memento, it should be allowed. Heck it saves Apple money since they don't have to give out that $500 credit.

These dev machines were rentals so no dev owns them Apple does. Also the contract was clear that the longest the developer could use the machine was a year.

I know that everybody is so use to clicking EULAs that they don't read the things but this was not a EULA but a formal contract. Anybody that doesn't read one of those and then complain regarding the terms has only themselves to blame.