Apple Requiring Patreon to Use In-App Purchase and Pay 30% Fee for Memberships

[BaldiMac]

And it was pointed out that you are cherry picking extreme examples. The numbers you have quoted are nowhere near average.

Calling them cherry picked doesn't mean they are. My numbers are sourced. Your numbers were wrong. Feel free to cite better ones if you have them.

Average cut for Patreon creators is 8%

Nope. That's just the platform fee. They also charge transaction fees on top of that for every transaction.

 

[MilaM]

You can subscribe to Patreon folks through a whole ton of options, including the safari browser right on the iPhone!

Why does Apple need to provide this service for free?

Patreon already does everything creators need. Nobody was asking to use Apple's service. Apple conveniently forces themselves into the transaction as a middle-man.

 

[MilaM]

And if iOS is an important platform that Patreon derives value from, I don't see why they shouldn't pay for it. Just like they expect the people who derive value from their platform to pay them.

Apple users will pay for it. The 30 cut for Apple will be on top of what you pay to the creators.

 

[GizmoDVD]

Patreon already does everything creators need. Nobody was asking to use Apple's service. Apple conveniently forces themselves into the transaction as a middle-man.

But Patreon should pay apple $0 to have their App on their store driving a very high portion of their customers to use it while App makes $0? Seems fair to me, great business skills

 

[Cloy]

We should be thanking Apple for this h.s. economics class lesson: They just showed the world how tariffs work: They are passed along to the consumer. Why should companies eat the tariffs? Apple is acting like a government leader.

[But apparently Google & Amazon, etc. is the evil ones.]

 

[zchrykng]

Why does Apple need to provide this service for free?

What service, exactly, are they supposedly providing for free? Not payment processing. Not hosting. Not marketing.

They provide distribution for apps and developer tools. They shouldn't be able to claim distribution as something they should be paid for since they make it impossible to distribute any other way. Developer tools, they have to make them for themselves and to enable the third party apps that makes their platform valuable, but they already charge for those annually.

 

[BaldiMac]

Apple users will pay for it. The 30 cut for Apple will be on top of what you pay to the creators.

Sure. Or not. Again, I can still choose to pay through the web. And creators still need to price to maximize profit, not to maintain the same margin.

 

[MilaM]

But Patreon should pay apple $0 to have their App on their store driving a very high portion of their customers to use it while App makes $0? Seems fair to me, great business skills

They did not ask to use Apple's payment infrastructure. For some apps it makes sense to let Apple take care of the billing. But it should not be mandatory in my opinion.

 

[BaldiMac]

They did not ask to use Apple's payment infrastructure. For some apps it makes sense to let Apple take care of the billing. But it should not be mandatory in my opinion.

Can you use alternative payments on Patreon's platform to bypass Patreon's fees?

 

[MilaM]

Can you use alternative payments on Patreon's platform to bypass Patreon's fees?

No, but you can choose another platform that has lower fees.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Nope. That's just the platform fee. They also charge transaction fees on top of that for every transaction.

Lets round it up to a very generous 12% still less than half the fantasy number you have quoted (multiple times)

Unless you are suggesting they charge 19% on top of the platform fee, at which point feel free to cite your source for that.

All moot anyway. Merely Apple making what they can before this all gets shot to hell by regulators.

 

[BaldiMac]

No, but you can choose another platform that has lower fees.

Exactly!

 

[MilaM]

Exactly!

Try to do that on the App Store. Not possible, since there is no competition for app payments for digital goods on Apple's platform. Maybe there will be, after Apple finally caves to the DMA in the EU and once Apple losses the anti-trust cases in other countries.

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

Can you not just subscribe via a browser and then use the iOS to login/use your sub?

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

You know Apple can't stop you visiting Patreon website in a browser? How do you think people pay for Spotify or buy digital products on Amazon?

I do not understand why people complain when this is still the best way to do things.

 

[BaldiMac]

Lets round it up to a very generous 12% still less than half the fantasy number you have quoted (multiple times)

Why should we use a made up number? Again, my number was completely accurate as stated.

Unless you are suggesting they charge 19% on top of the platform fee, at which point feel free to cite your source for that.

I already provided my source.

 

[BaldiMac]

Try to do that on the App Store. Not possible, since there is no competition for app payments for digital goods on Apple's platform. Maybe there will be, after Apple finally caves to the DMA in the EU and once Apple losses the anti-trust cases in other countries.

Of course there no alternative to Apple's platform on Apple's platform. Just as there's no alternative to Patreon's platform on Patreon.

 

[MilaM]

Of course there no alternative to Apple's platform on Apple's platform. Just as there's no alternative to Patreon's platform on Patreon.

If you think what Apple does is fine and don't see the difference to what Patreon is doing, we don't need to exchange arguments anymore.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

I already provided my source.

Where you again conveniently cherry picked the rate for micropayments that very few creators actually use rather than lower the standard rate. Yet for Apple you picked the lower 15% cut to illustrate your point rather than the standard 30%.

 

[Manzanito]

If people are willing to pay an extra 42.86% just to give Apple their cut/convenience, but that doesn't make any sense to me.

And to give Apple 30% they do have to increase the cost by about 42.9% for Patreon and the creator to receive the same amount of money.

Starting price = 10
New cost = 14.29
Apple's cut 14.29 * 0.3 = 4.29
Remainder = 14.29 - 4.29 = 10

If enough relevant developers decide to simultaneously withdraw their apps from the app store maybe apple would stand to reason.

Or maybe the EU can keep fining apple 🤣

 

[webkit]

As I pointed out, for creators that make less than $1 million, Apple would charge 15% for digital content while Patreon charges up to 27%.

And it was pointed out that you are cherry picking extreme examples. The numbers you have quoted are nowhere near average.

"Up to" figures can be misleading. One could argue that Apple charges up to 9900% in commissions and fees (e.g., for a developer with one app only earning $1 in revenue in one year; 15% plus $99 annual Apple Developer Program fee) but that would be silly and extremely misleading.

Averages rather than "up tos" would be a lot more meaningful here.

 

[davide_eu]

They would have to leave the App Store though, since Apple apparently threatened to kick them out if they disabled payments inside the Patreon app. It's mentioned in the article.

Sure, once there will be a real app store alternative, they will

 

[cjsuk]

No, but you can choose another platform that has lower fees.

There’s this neutral platform called the World Wide Web. Perhaps they should you know, sell on there?

I’m so fed up of all this crap.

 

[GizmoDVD]

Patreon already does everything creators need. Nobody was asking to use Apple's service. Apple conveniently forces themselves into the transaction as a middle-man.

So Patreon should delist their app from Apple? Sounds like they don't need apple for anything!

 

[MilaM]

So Patreon should delist their app from Apple? Sounds like they don't need apple for anything!

They don't have to. Creators can just decide to increase subscriptions prices to refelct Apple's fees. I hope most will. People need to be made aware of the Apple tax for digital services.

Besides. If you check Apple's newly released fee schedule for the EU, Apple also will demand a cut from transactions that are done outside the App Store. Their lawyers are aleady ahead of you. Opening a browser won't help you at all.