Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Apple Researching Physical Keyboards with Motion Control to Replace Mouse

Resplendent said:
My main concern is how precise you could get with this system. If it takes 30 seconds to position the cursor where you want it, it's no good. Obviously we haven't seen how well it does at this, but I'm not instantly assuming that just because it's a new idea, that it's practical. I reserve the right to make an opinion one way or another if a demonstration model is ever shown.
Click to expand...

Thats the reason why 90% (or maybe even more) of their patents never show up in a real product. They have a cool idea, they play with it, if lucky they make a prototype, they make user studies, they find out it stinks and the world will never see it, except for the descriptions and pictures in those patent applications. That is part of why apple products are expensive, they spend a lot on research and development and trying new ideas that they have they have to trash after a while, every once in a while great things will come out of it. I don't think all those 'found' patent applications will give much of an idea of upcoming products, they shed rather some light on what apple is toying with and in which direction they do research.
 
griz said:
That would be incredibly awkward dragging your fingers over the key surface. It's pretty obvious that Apple has been grooming us all for flat touch screen typing. Look at how the apple keyboard has changed over the years. The flat chiclet keys are the last step before they just flatten it to a screen. Then you can touch a couple modifiers and the right side of the touch screen changes to a track pad. Would be far more useful if the display was contextual. It just needs haptic feedback so that you would be able to have reference points. Would also be helpful if you could rest your fingers on it without typing and typing required a small press just like current keyboards do.
Click to expand...

Will you all READ? You don't drag your fingers over the keyboard. You perform gestures ABOVE the keyboard and the camera picks them up. Horrible idea, but it is still what is being proposed in the article.
 
vincenz said:
That's gonna be one dirty keyboard after about a week of use.
Click to expand...

Not to worry, Apple is filing a patent for self cleaning keyboards later today:)
Unfortunately the keys will be held by the new screws.

But seriously folks, I can't understand the many negative comments.

They are exploring things to make using a computer easier.

If it happens fine, and even if you don't like this technology YOU don't have to use it, duh!

I think it would be great to find a solution that allows typing and using gestures without leaving the keyboard.

From what I see, maybe it's possible to put a small touchpad strip at the bottom under the space bar.

At least it's close.
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned control using your brain yet. The gaming industry is starting to see brain-machine interactivity as a near-future mainstream development. In terms of simple pointing I see this as the best way to free the hands up.

Currently, for general use, the pointer is for selecting objects, scrolling and dragging. The dragging is merely in order to move something from one place to another. So all the MindMouse would have to be able to do is know which object you wish to select, know if you want to scroll up, down, left or right within that object, and know where you want to place an object. Fairly basic stuff.
 
Thunderhawks said:
Not to worry, Apple is filing a patent for self cleaning keyboards later today:)
Unfortunately the keys will be held by the new screws.

But seriously folks, I can't understand the many negative comments.

They are exploring things to make using a computer easier.

If it happens fine, and even if you don't like this technology YOU don't have to use it, duh!

I think it would be great to find a solution that allows typing and using gestures without leaving the keyboard.

From what I see, maybe it's possible to put a small touchpad strip at the bottom under the space bar.

At least it's close.
Click to expand...

If you would read, you would notice that the gestures are to be done in the air, not by touching the keyboard- so it wouldn't get "dirty".
 
aplqna said:
If you would read, you would notice that the gestures are to be done in the air, not by touching the keyboard- so it wouldn't get "dirty".
Click to expand...

all fair enough, but for me having experimented with some input devices to execute some PRECISE/SNAPPY work for example in photoshop or for architects on cad, the (laser?)mouse is still king of the heap, albeit dated?

not touching and/or pressing a resistive/spring laden key or just hovering might lead to a degree of fatigue? or is it a case of us having to get used to a new type of interface? blue tooth response is too slow as is infra red type devices
 
This certainly sounds like a cool idea and I hope they can bring it to market someday. I don't know how well I would like using it, as it would definitely require getting used to. As another person said, I don't see this working well for gaming though. But I sure am willing to try it out.

But I think with the success of the iPhone/iTouch/iPad, a keyboard as described here and/or a keyboard that is all touch and not tactile could have a chance at being adopted mainstream. Maybe not take over the standard keyboard's market share but at least keep it's own head above water.
 
Lepton said:
Sony actually has a keyboard that does this. It's a peripheral for the PS3! check out their Bluetooth keyboard add on. It is a small keyboard that clips onto the PS3 controller. Tap one of it's buttons and the keyboard becomes a trackpad. Drag your finger across the keyboard lightly, without pressing keys, and the cursor moves. It actually works pretty well. Some kind of capacitive technology, I think.
Click to expand...

that's what i was thinking when reading this, i already have one of these and it doesn't need little cameras popping up to work, it's pretty nifty.
 
I don't know whether or not this particular idea will ever make it to a real product, but I have to say that it's nice to be reminded yet again that Apple puts a great deal of thought into the human-computer interface.
 
Whose to say you have to even use a toggle button? Why not have a sweeping motion over the top of the keyboard activate the camera sensors?

Try the motions out on your keyboard now, lifting your fingers and making a swipe motion is easier than moving your hands to a mouse or a track pad. Now imagine how many more kinds of jesters you can make when you're not actually touching anything!

That’s huge! By removing the need for you to actually touch anything the opens un an entirely new dimension of movement. This could have a future.
 
franswa za said:
all fair enough, but for me having experimented with some input devices to execute some PRECISE/SNAPPY work for example in photoshop or for architects on cad, the (laser?)mouse is still king of the heap, albeit dated?

not touching and/or pressing a resistive/spring laden key or just hovering might lead to a degree of fatigue? or is it a case of us having to get used to a new type of interface? blue tooth response is too slow as is infra red type devices
Click to expand...

As I said before, I don't think this is a good idea at all. I agree- give me a mouse anyday! Even the trackpad can be a bit taxing as far as ergonomics.
 
I can't see this working well; having to hover your finger over the keyboard to move the cursor - sounds awkward and tiring.

The old IBM 'nipples' were good at the time, but still awful. The problem is the acceleration/deceleration curves. There's so little movement in those 'nipples' that it's hard to move the cursor quickly across the screen and then slow to accurately move the cursor over a small button, or between two characters. It's much easier with a trackpad or mouse. (It's the same difference between old MP3 players with up/down buttons compared with the original iPod with the scroll wheel - the wheel made it much easier to scroll quickly through a huge list then slowly and accurately to select the specific song).

The only solutions I can see:

- Voice input: Not desirable in many environments.
- Switch away from a two-hand Qwerty keyboard. Several systems have been devised allowing people to type quickly with one hand (the other hand on the trackpad/mouse) - but few people are willing to take the time to learn these.
- A touch-sensitive pad with a flexible surface. When operating as a keyboard, groups of pins push to the surface to form the outline of buttons which can be felt by the fingertips. As soon as the pad detects a finger dragging, these pins drop again and it becomes a trackpad. (All this is easier said than done!)
 
BBCWatcher said:
Memo to Apple: IBM invented the TrackPoint a couple decades ago. It's quite nice. Please do check it out.
Click to expand...

My first laptop (happened to be an IBM) had a trackpoint mouse, and it sucked. I could never find the right sensitivity setting for it, the little red eraser thing kept coming off at the most inopportune times, and about half the time I would have to go hunting for it under a table. There is a reason most manufacturers quit putting them on laptops as a standard option. As far as I know IBM is the only company who still does.
 
talkingfuture said:
Very interesting, I wonder why they haven't done a combination of Magic Trackpad and wireless keyboard in one unit yet? Other than potential cost it seems like a great idea.
Click to expand...

exactly what i'm waiting for. using the wireless keyboard and magic trackpad right now, but a combo unit with the pad in the same position as on a laptop would be optimal.
 
Zunjine said:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned control using your brain yet. The gaming industry is starting to see brain-machine interactivity as a near-future mainstream development. In terms of simple pointing I see this as the best way to free the hands up.

Currently, for general use, the pointer is for selecting objects, scrolling and dragging. The dragging is merely in order to move something from one place to another. So all the MindMouse would have to be able to do is know which object you wish to select, know if you want to scroll up, down, left or right within that object, and know where you want to place an object. Fairly basic stuff.
Click to expand...

You want AAPL to interface with your brain on a physical level? No way Jose.
 
whooleytoo said:
The old IBM 'nipples' were good at the time, but still awful. The problem is the acceleration/deceleration curves. There's so little movement in those 'nipples' that it's hard to move the cursor quickly across the screen and then slow to accurately move the cursor over a small button, or between two characters.
Click to expand...

supmango said:
My first laptop (happened to be an IBM) had a trackpoint mouse, and it sucked. I could never find the right sensitivity setting for it, the little red eraser thing kept coming off at the most inopportune times, and about half the time I would have to go hunting for it under a table. There is a reason most manufacturers quit putting them on laptops as a standard option. As far as I know IBM is the only company who still does.
Click to expand...

I loved mine, in my old IBM thinkpad 10 years ago. I could whizz across the screen no problem then move to a precise point.

Why I think most people had problems with is is they treat it like a minature joystick. No. The trackpoint DOES NOT MOVE. It is rigid, immobile, but it detects the forces you put on it. So, press it harder to one side, and the cursor moves faster.

wikipedia said:
The pointing stick operates by sensing applied force (hence it is also known as an isometric joystick), by using a pair of resistive strain gauges. The velocity of the cursor depends on the applied force.
Click to expand...

I've seen people brushing it repeatedly trying to move the cursor and getting frustrated. Just press it to one side and vary the force with which you press it.
 
ctdonath said:
Because talking constantly is, for most of us, a pain.
Because everyone around you will hear what you're doing all the time.
Because nobody wants to hear what you're doing all the time.
Because sometimes you REALLY don't want others to hear what you're doing.
Because sometimes others REALLY don't want to know what you're doing.
Because tactile interfaces are, most of the time, faster.
Because knowing what you're talking to is not a simple problem.

I dabbled in speech recognition about 20 years ago. Seemed really cool at the time, until I realized how much of a pain it is to talk to a computer, no matter how good the recognizer was.
Click to expand...

Yeah, all this. Plus cursor positioning (selecting a cell, sentence, etc.), and the biggie...humans don't generally work in a linear fashion, we jump around and look at different parts of the documents we're working on. Controlling that by speech is unlikely.
 
What would work is a full size virtual keyboard with track pad touch and typewriting capabilities.
Imagine a flat rectangular surface like a touch screen with a large version of the iphone or ipad virtual keyboard printed on it. It could work as both a keyboard and a large track pad.
 
BBCWatcher said:
Memo to Apple: IBM invented the TrackPoint a couple decades ago. It's quite nice. Please do check it out.
Click to expand...

Indeed they are nice for their precise control (even in TF2 where trackpads almost always fail), but I don't see much reason Lenovo, Dell, and HP keep using them other than to please their stagnant consumer base. Though I have learned to use the TrackPoint quite effectively on my x201, I only use it due to the abysmally poor Synaptics trackpad that came with it (and almost all other PCs).

On topic: If this was an official product (such as the "Magic Keyboard"), people would start ranting about how the keyboard had zero tactile feedback, and then return / sell them off en masse. It is understandable for smartphones and arguably tablets, where space is limited, but for anything else?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back