Apple Researching Physical Keyboards with Motion Control to Replace Mouse

[nim81]

Will you all READ? You don't drag your fingers over the keyboard. You perform gestures ABOVE the keyboard and the camera picks them up. Horrible idea, but it is still what is being proposed in the article.

What makes you so sure of this? I've re-read the article and it still sounds to me like you drag your finger across the keyboard.

It sounds just like the mini keyboard for the PS3 actually, which works in that way. It's not very effective tbh.

 

[ericinboston]

Oh, right. They don't do it because the entire computer industry is lazy. Maybe you should call them and tell them they just forgot about this. I'm sure that's the only problem.

1)When did I say that laziness is the only problem?

2)DD is and was a good app...but like all sorts of software that is CPU heavy, users don't appreciate lag time. I have not used DD since the late 90s but for years it seemed like a great emerging technology for people who wanted to write/author documents, and do somewhat simple commands like speaking "play Madonna Into The Groove". Will speech recognition do everything and make mice/keyboards useless? I seriously doubt it. But for those who actually type a lot all day long, speech recognition would surely be a great benefit.

 

[paul4339]

...
Microsoft's idea was that wherever you lay your primary fingers on the screen, determines where and how big the keyboard halves are. So you just place each hand down with their four typing fingers, and the virtual keys appear underneath them. Instead of you having to make sure you are on the keys, the keys adapt to your finger placement and size.

...

yes... I think I remember reading about that, and thought it was clever idea... the keyboard adapts to your hands when you rest it down as opposed to making your hands adapt to the keyboard.

P.

 

[Thunderhawks]

If you would read, you would notice that the gestures are to be done in the air, not by touching the keyboard- so it wouldn't get "dirty".

No, if YOU would read, you would see that I was responding to somebody who complained about getting the keyboard dirty.

 

[fxtech]

I would love to game on that

No you wouldn't. How would you use AWSD keys and crouch/run modifier combos if the camera keeps seeing your left hand movement as mouse movement? That's one thing I couldn't figure out from this - how does the camera know the difference between your left and right hand motion?

 

[SandynJosh]

Very interesting, I wonder why they haven't done a combination of Magic Trackpad and wireless keyboard in one unit yet? Other than potential cost it seems like a great idea.

There are two kinds of touch, and one of them is a "click-touch". That would interfere with having a stable platform for the keyboard. I wondered the same as you until I started using both.

Personally, the "light touch" form of entry is a bit too light for my hands and I'd like some way in the settings to call for the touch pad to be less sensitive and trigger-happy.

 

[aplqna]

What makes you so sure of this? I've re-read the article and it still sounds to me like you drag your finger across the keyboard.

It sounds just like the mini keyboard for the PS3 actually, which works in that way. It's not very effective tbh.

From the article: "the user's finger movements immediately above the keyboard"

 

[fxtech]

There are two kinds of touch, and one of them is a "click-touch". That would interfere with having a stable platform for the keyboard. I wondered the same as you until I started using both.

Actually 3 - don't forget "bad touch". Though some people might like that.

 

[aplqna]

No, if YOU would read, you would see that I was responding to somebody who complained about getting the keyboard dirty.

I did read that, and you responded in reference to a "self cleaning" keyboard, etc. You did not inform that commenter that there is no way for it to get dirty because the gestures are performed above the keyboard, you just went along with it talking about dirty keyboards.

 

[foges]

Awesome idea, though a two hand system is too cumbersome, needs to somehow be easily controlled with one hand. Also cameras don't seem very reliable...

 

[JAT]

Plus, I'm going to remember 100 different gestures just to get around my desktop? No thanks.

Why not? It always amazes me that people use computers every day and can't be bothered to learn how they work. Learn gestures, or shortcuts, or where items are in menus, etc. No, really, go ahead and learn these things. It will improve your computing. Almost every day I help a coworker with some dumb little thing that they ought to know, already.

I don't know that this particular research is going to turn up anything universally useful, but who knows.

 

[lilo777]

Awesome idea, though a two hand system is too cumbersome, needs to somehow be easily controlled with one hand. Also cameras don't seem very reliable...

Awesome? Try to imitate browsing Internet with this approach (instead of the mouse). Try holding and moving your hand above the keyboard for a little while. Your arm will be dead in less than two minutes.

 

[Ironduke]

sounds alot like the PS3 keypad addon, or atleast how it works

 

[0815]

However, for computer input, there is nothing quicker and easier than the good old mouse and keyboard. Period.

I'm sure the Neanderthals were pretty happy with their caves and couldn't image anything better since it was perfect for their needs

 

[3282868]

Interesting. Would take adjusting to as with any new device. Could be annoying if triggering the mouse mode is too easy.

I've gotten used to the non-tactile feedback from the iPhone and especially with the iPad. I would not mind a flat keyboard with a software driven interface, allowing the user to change the keyboard at will or with various applications.

Why not merge the Magic Trackpad with the keyboard? Example the wired keyboard, replace the numeric keypad with the trackpad and get rid of the middle section between the two as not to elongate the keyboard too much?

 

[fabianjj]

My main concern is how precise you could get with this system. If it takes 30 seconds to position the cursor where you want it, it's no good. Obviously we haven't seen how well it does at this, but I'm not instantly assuming that just because it's a new idea, that it's practical. I reserve the right to make an opinion one way or another if a demonstration model is ever shown.

Yes precision could become a problem with such a solution compared to a mouse, but keep in mind that most people for most of the time don't need the kind of accuracy lost from switching to a touch based input device. There will always be need for the kind of precision that a mouse proides (Heck, there are also a lot of people using trackballs and other types of pointing devices because the find mice lacking in precision), but those people will probably still be buying mice or other high-precision pointing devices.

 

[r00fus]

I'm always amazed how many people don't like the magic mouse - I totally love it and it is (for me) the best mouse I ever used - guess it's a matter of personal preferences. I have not tried the magic trackpad yet, very tempting - but I don't want to give up my magic mouse

I have and use a magic mouse daily, but I can see why people don't like it.

some of it's drawbacks are:
1) bluetooth is inherently slower than say, a logitech wireless or standard wired mouse.
2) lack of distinct buttons makes it less usable for gaming
3) occasional glitches like the phantom scroll
4) Doesn't work on Lin/Win

I still love mine, but if I was stuck on any of those, I'd have craigslisted/ebayed it months ago.

 

[0815]

I have and use a magic mouse daily, but I can see why people don't like it.

some of it's drawbacks are:
1) bluetooth is inherently slower than say, a logitech wireless or standard wired mouse.
2) lack of distinct buttons makes it less usable for gaming
3) occasional glitches like the phantom scroll
4) Doesn't work on Lin/Win

I still love mine, but if I was stuck on any of those, I'd have craigslisted/ebayed it months ago.

hmmm, my mouse does not feel that slow and didn't see phantom scrolls. to your other points: as I said, its a matter of personal preferences. I don't game (well, I do, but only on iPad and iPhone) and I don't care about windows or linux.

 

[hayesk]

For me it's rather like the worst of both worlds. I can't stand touchpads, find touch interfaces cumbersome and don't even use Apple mice (or keyboards) with my Mac because they have the worst ergonomics on the market.

Apple's current keyboard is almost flat. Flatter keyboards are ergonomically better than ones that slant upwards toward the back.

 

[hayesk]

I'm always amazed how many people don't like the magic mouse - I totally love it and it is (for me) the best mouse I ever used - guess it's a matter of personal preferences. I have not tried the magic trackpad yet, very tempting - but I don't want to give up my magic mouse

It's not tall enough. I want a mouse with a larger curve on it.

Also, it doesn't have real buttons - the Mighty Mouse I have mis-detects right-click all the time. I don't know if the Magic Mouse is better, but if it's the same, then I don't want it.

 

[hayesk]

I loved mine, in my old IBM thinkpad 10 years ago. I could whizz across the screen no problem then move to a precise point.

Why I think most people had problems with is is they treat it like a minature joystick. No. The trackpoint DOES NOT MOVE. It is rigid, immobile, but it detects the forces you put on it. So, press it harder to one side, and the cursor moves faster.

Actually, it does move - just a tiny bit. If it didn't there'd be no way to detect the force on it. Regardless, it's not quicker than a standard mouse.

 

[hayesk]

However, for computer input, there is nothing quicker and easier than the good old mouse and keyboard. Period.

Says you.

Which keyboard is quicker and easier? QWERTY? Nope - Dvorak is faster and easier, but it just hasn't caught on.

What features on a mouse is quicker and easier? Mice with or without scroll wheels? What about scroll balls? What about graphics tasks that require you to rotate objects a lot? What about if you have to sort through lots of photos? Is a mouse quicker than touch? Probably not.

If you are convinced that nothing will ever be as good as your mouse and keyboard and are happy about that, then good for you. The rest of us, would like to try new things and see if they work out better.

 

[0815]

It's not tall enough. I want a mouse with a larger curve on it.

Also, it doesn't have real buttons - the Mighty Mouse I have mis-detects right-click all the time. I don't know if the Magic Mouse is better, but if it's the same, then I don't want it.

So you actually never tried the magic mouse and just 'assume' it's not working.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

XBox Kinetix idea, but probably much better applied.
It uses two cameras, hopefully InfraRed, in case you want to use it in the dark.
I don't think it will replace the traditional Mouse and Trackpad, but it would be a great complement.
Don't be surprised if someone implements this using the built-in iSight camera.
Actually, I do remember that someone has already done it, at least 2 years ago.

I just found some interesting links (check out the dates):

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Home/28814DD4-ADDD-4807-A3CE-69766A9383B2.html

http://digg.com/news/technology/Use_iSight_as_a_Hand_Gesture_Input_Device

http://www.macshareware.com/software/isight_hand_motion_app

 

[Yamcha]

Yeah I don't think it will replace the mouse, but it might be a good extra to have, might also be useful for expose or things of that nature, maybe even surfing or scrolling through a web browser or document..