Apple Responds to U.S. House Committee on Energy and Commerce: 'The Customer is Not Our Product'

[MacBH928]

It should be a law, the customer can see every single piece of data collected on him, customer should be able to- permanently -delete any single piece of data about him. Its not delete all or keep all.

Also companies should have an option to mass delete, like "delete comments before XXXX" not go back and delete every single piece of comment you made in the past 5 years that has 4 pop-up dialogues to make sure you want to delete it.

That being said, although Apple is the best of the bunch its no use since Apple will simply just hand over your data once requested. The problem is data collection in the first place.

I don't mind so much knowing which podcasts or apps I downloaded from the app store, but once they can read my private conversations, track my location, know how much I use my phone everyday. Its that part that gets creepy and makes someone paranoid.

 

[Cycling Asia]

Id like to see Android or Samsung response,

1:Why is the majority of the user base on such an old OS? Why!! Why!!!

Android/Samsung/Google response: "We take the privacy of our customers very seriously. As for the user's of our software, well as they're the product, we can do whatever we want with them. Read the fine print".

 

[Solomani]

Apple: "The customer is not our product."

Google: "Dude! Then can you give us all your product…. err…. I mean, all your customers? You've got like 80 bazillion products…. oops…. "customers" registered to iTunes Store alone! If you don't want product, we'll gladly take them from your hands!"

 

[DNichter]

You mean Fuschia?? If so, you should probably clarify that as a rumor in some tech circles rather than your statement of fact. Unless you have a reference.

Yes, Fuchsia. Like many Google products or services, it may never come to be as originally intended, but it shows that they at least understand that it may take a complete rework of their OS/ideals to position it against iOS. Plenty of references on the web that go into detail regarding Fuchsia. Below is one.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...aid-to-plot-android-successor-draw-skepticism
[doublepost=1533728024][/doublepost]

Android/Samsung/Google response: "We take the privacy of our customers very seriously. As for the user's of our software, well as they're the product, we can do whatever we want with them. Read the fine print".

That's likely what it will come down to though in their response (if there is one), although they'll try to spin it in a positive way. Even though their entire business is built on user data and advertising, it's certainly not illegal. They created a massive business around it and have been very successful in getting users to blindly buy in.
[doublepost=1533730633][/doublepost]

You completely missed the point didn't you?

It has nothing to do with me using them or not and everything to do with highlighting Apple's hypocracy.

Apple's only too happy to crow about privacy when it suits them but is even more happy to take kickbacks from Google to be the default search engine on iOS.
[doublepost=1533675750][/doublepost]
We've been over this before but it seems some people completely missed the memo that all of the data is completely anonymous and feel the need to regurgitate falsehoods

Everything I said was true. Did I say that the data wasn't anonymous? Anonymity doesn't change the fact that Google products and services exist to collect user data and sell targeted ads.

 

[I7guy]

I've actually hugely stopped buying Apple products. I won't lie, I like them a lot and dislike Windows, but I'm looking for a way out.
Of course it's hypocrisy.

We’re more into the products than ever. iPhones, iPads, Apple TV and mac books. Even converted staunch family members.

It’s not hypocrisy.
[doublepost=1533732014][/doublepost]

El oh el. I see what you tried to do there. We're not talking about stripping them from Safari because they can't do that. Well they probably could but that would be a whole other issue. If Apple truly cared about user privacy as Cook likes to boast that they do then Apple wouldn't demand kickbacks from Google to be their default search engine and would remove them from iOS but as they say money talks....

It’s a false equivalence. Being critical of google doesn’t mean they shouldn’t use their services, to me. I guess it does to you. That’s what makes the world go around though. In the end, Apple doesn’t care whether you think it’s hypocritical, they are going to do what they want. Thank goodness for that.

 

[Wanted797]

I assume you're hinting at Alex Jones here and if so I hate to break it to you but Apple, as a PRIVATE entity, is able to remove any content it sees fit to remove. Free Speech does not apply here.

Apple as a PRIVATE entity doesn’t have to keep your phone data safe or not sell it to advertisers and yet, they do.

 

[TheShadowKnows!]

Timothy Powderly [Apple, Government Affairs] writes "The Customer is Not our Product..."

Erratum: "The Customer Wallet Is Our Product..."/s

 

[GeneralChang]

...or run an audio-only FaceTime.

I may be the hundredth person to point this out, but... audio-only FaceTime is totally a thing. Has been for... two years, now? Maybe three.

 

[digitalexplr]

or run an audio-only FaceTime.

What version of iOS are you using? Audio FaceTime is an option.

 

[kemal]

I want Apple to do better. Better products that could even make Louis happy.

 

[DNichter]

Timothy Powderly [Apple, Government Affairs] writes "The Customer is Not our Product..."

Erratum: "The Customer Wallet Is Our Product..."/s

What's your point? Apple shouldn't sell their products? Google is somehow better because they are targeting user data instead of selling them products? Just trying to figure out what you mean here. I don't think anyone is arguing the validity/legality of what Google is doing (I'm sure not, they have a great business model), but instead questioning the ethics behind mining and monetizing user data.

 

[thasan]

You completely missed the point didn't you?

It has nothing to do with me using them or not and everything to do with highlighting Apple's hypocracy.

Apple's only too happy to crow about privacy when it suits them but is even more happy to take kickbacks from Google to be the default search engine on iOS.
[doublepost=1533675750][/doublepost]
We've been over this before but it seems some people completely missed the memo that all of the data is completely anonymous and feel the need to regurgitate falsehoods

I am not missing the point.
You still can use any other search engine.
Apple makes money for the default search option but NOT on your search data then onwards (not talking about their own advert platform).
Are you asking apple to block googles services too?
Then people like you will be the first one to complain about this
[doublepost=1533741148][/doublepost]

Let me put this as simply as I can because some here just aren't seeing Apple's hypocracy weather out of ignorance or willful disregard I don't know.

Apple loves to crow about how "it takes privacy seriously" and how "it believes it's a fundamental right" but when it demands kickbacks from the very same company it throws shade at over privacy issues their stance on privacy rings hollow

Can you specify the kickbacks you are talking about?
and again, you can decide not to use facebook or google.
they will be a fool not to take % of profit from google if google makes money from an apple customer (who wilfully uses googles services).

 

[iansilv]

Apple believes privacy is a human right. Just as you, Apple does not have control over a sovereign nation. It is up to the citizens of of those countries to change their governments.
[doublepost=1533674571][/doublepost]

Apple doesn’t control China. China can do whatever it wants to. Just because Apple believes privacy is a human right, doesn’t mean China has to care.

Oh you and your rational responses!

 

[I7guy]

And Apple can choose not to do business with a human rights violating country, but they did anyways. Soooo..no moral high ground for Apple here.

And you can make sure you also don’t buy any product that has any component originating from any country with a human rights violation. So no moral high ground for you either.

 

[Naraxus]

I am not missing the point.
You still can use any other search engine.
Apple makes money for the default search option but NOT on your search data then onwards (not talking about their own advert platform).
Are you asking apple to block googles services too?
Then people like you will be the first one to complain about this

You did miss the point. Apple likes to talk about how they take privacy seriously. In the same breath they make insinuations and outright lies (like selling customers personal data) against companies like Google when in fact Google does nothing of the sort. What BOTH companies do is sell what are called targeted ad slots which are completely anonymous.

If Apple is so concerned with user privacy like they like to crow about then they need to either stop lying about what Google does (and doesn't do) and continue taking kickbacks from them or be truthful about what Google does (and does not do) and stop taking their kickbacks.

Can you specify the kickbacks you are talking about?

Easily: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/14/goo...lion-to-remain-default-search--bernstein.html

 

[Macintoshrumors]

A fundamental human right in China?

Freedom is a human right for everyone except for the rest of the world aparently.

 

[I7guy]

You did miss the point. Apple likes to talk about how they take privacy seriously. In the same breath they make insinuations and outright lies (like selling customers personal data) against companies like Google when in fact Google does nothing of the sort. What BOTH companies do is sell what are called targeted ad slots which are completely anonymous.

If Apple is so concerned with user privacy like they like to crow about then they need to either stop lying about what Google does (and doesn't do) and continue taking kickbacks from them or be truthful about what Google does (and does not do) and stop taking their kickbacks.


Easily: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/14/goo...lion-to-remain-default-search--bernstein.html

You are not correct. Apple insists (and I believe them) the customer is not the product. With google their business model is the customer is the product. Apple is not incorrect. They didn’t say anything else about google.

And it should be obvious from the dispute with Samsung that coopetition exists. This coopetition is not hypocrisy.

 

[GeneralChang]

You are not correct. Apple insists (and I believe them) the customer is not the product. With google their business model is the customer is the product. Apple is not incorrect. They didn’t say anything else about google.

And it should be obvious from the dispute with Samsung that coopetition exists. This coopetition is not hypocrisy.

Just commenting to say that coopetition being in the dictionary is my favorite new piece of word trivia, because it sounds totally fake.

 

[I7guy]

Just commenting to say that coopetition being in the dictionary is my favorite new piece of word trivia, because it sounds totally fake.

But that’s the way it is. How these companies do business.

 

[Sill]

BS! During the iPhone setup you have the option of skipping (opt out, not now or whatever you want to call it). When I updated to High Sierra all of my same options were still disabled. I will bet then when I upgrade to the new iOS all of the iCloud and app integrations will still be the same.

I haven't updated to High Sierra yet. I'm waiting until the Fusion Drive shows a benefit from the new file system.

You have an option when you put a new product into service - or update an older one - to either sign into iCloud or not. That is the only opt-in/out there is. When I bought my iPhone 5s, my 6s, and now my X - every time I started the new user setup, I was given an option to either sign into iCloud or not. If I did, it would override all my existing settings and start sharing photos, notes, whatever. If I didn't, and I was able to lock down all those services, then signing into iCloud would automatically override my settings and share everything. If you signed out of iCloud on your phone and handed it to me, I could sign in on iCloud and it would automatically upload everything from your phone to my account. Great way to get info on people: "Can I borrow your phone? My seems to have died."

Right out of the box, an iPhone for a new user (if there are many of those left) has the following "services" enabled:

Location Services
Find My iPhone
iCloud Notes
iCloud Contacts
iCloud Reminders
iCloud Calendars
iCloud Photo Library
iCloud Photo Sharing
My Photo Stream
Health
Homekit
Motion & Fitness

Siri - even if you disable it - is tied in to the search permissions for every single app on the phone. You have to go into all the apps individually and disable it. How about the Health app? You can't delete it. You can't delete the data it holds. I've never used it, yet the data it stores grows regularly. My decommissioned iPhone 6s, which now serves as my bedside alarm and browser, now shows Health holds 4.7MB of data - despite NEVER being used, EVER - which is more than the combined data held by Weather, Calculator, Voice Memos, and a popular car shopping app I used regularly. (Calendar shows 5MB of data held, which makes me wonder whats in there - I only used Calendar to find out what day of the week a particular date fell on. I never once loaded an appointment in there.)

I had to log in to the iCloud page itself - which I never use - to find and delete the references to each device that Find My iPhone has loaded without my permission.

I'm also not happy about the Activity tracker that keeps popping up on my devices. One of the first things I do with any of my iPhones is delete that thing; every few days it pops up on my screens and I have to delete it again.

At least my iPhone X gave up fairly quickly on trying to get me to do a faceID scan. I stick with a PIN. I figure at some point, though, they'll make biometrics mandatory.

So... privacy may "be a concern" for Apple, but I think a lot of that concern is hyperbole.

 

[VictorTango777]

When we talk about companies collecting and selling personal data, what exactly is this data used for?

 

[Diatribe]

It should be a law, the customer can see every single piece of data collected on him, customer should be able to- permanently -delete any single piece of data about him. Its not delete all or keep all.

It is law. In Europe at least...

 

[TheShadowKnows!]

What's your point? Apple shouldn't sell their products? Google is somehow better because they are targeting user data instead of selling them products? Just trying to figure out what you mean here. I don't think anyone is arguing the validity/legality of what Google is doing (I'm sure not, they have a great business model), but instead questioning the ethics behind mining and monetizing user data.

[Very late clarification, DNichter]

You make a security argument. Noted, and accurate.
Instead, I made Apple's "priced-to-all-what-the-market-will-bear" argument [i.e. greed-driven].

[It is what it is. But this does not mean I do not love Apple products -- same as you.]

 

[DNichter]

[Very late clarification, DNichter]

You make a security argument. Noted, and accurate.
Instead, I made Apple's "priced-to-all-what-the-market-will-bear" argument [i.e. greed-driven].

[It is what it is. But this does not mean I do not love Apple products -- same as you.]

Eh, I get your point, but I feel like that is what Apple has always been. I compare the X release to that of the MacBook Air. Both with pretty advanced tech at the time, lots of people balked at the price, but once they smoothed out the components and manufacturing piece, prices came down. Exactly what is expected this year. I don't really see it as all that surprising, or maybe I'm just numb to it haha. There are some products/components (MacBook Pro/SSD's) that I feel are overpriced. I just don't buy them though.

 

[MacBH928]

It is law. In Europe at least...

I know you can download it, but can you delete a single piece of information? Like can I delete just few of my Google maps locations or trips?
Or few of my youTube browsing? or people I have friended in the past on FaceBook? or Search terms I searched for 2 years ago?

do they permanently delete them? I heard they retain them in backups forever. Its there, just not accessible to you. There was a service that literally has shutdown. Few years later they sent me an email, they still had my email after they SHUT DOWN!