Apple Retail Ends Genius Training in Cupertino, Moves to In-Store Web Seminars

[Chupa Chupa]

Well we will not know that until we see if these changes result it any consequences . Penny pinching initiatives and creating a further divide between HQ and retail is not going to get you the best people. And if you do not get the high quality applicants, quality goes down. Do you see where I a, coming from?

Sorry I think everyone who is "outraged" by this is way overreacting. I'm not a fan of either TC or AA with her "Burberrization" of Apple but I can't honestly say Apple Stores have gone down hill under her guidance. The remodeled stores are top notch in giving customers a good feeling and clearly were not designed on the cheap. There is a difference between penny pinching and trimming the fat.

 

[GigabitEthernet]

Just another step in Apple ruining the store experience.

In the U.K. At least, the support I used to receive several years ago was always excellent. Always felt the staff went above and beyond to help.

Now, they're unhelpful and you get ignored a lot of the time. I've had a manager tell me to my face I was lying.

This - I fear - will just make things worse.

 

[MRrainer]

I have to agree - what can you actually repair in a 2016 MB - or even more so a MBP?

 

[kdarling]

Sorry I think everyone who is "outraged" by this is way overreacting. I'm not a fan of either TC or AA with her "Burberrization" of Apple but I can't honestly say Apple Stores have gone down hill under her guidance. The remodeled stores are top notch in giving customers a good feeling and clearly were not designed on the cheap. There is a difference between penny pinching and trimming the fat.

When a company is making a profit of 100 million dollars a day, this definitely counts as penny pinching.

 

[JamesPDX]

Don't be fooled by R&D budgets.

My company spends £200 million a year on R&D, cause they have a main revenue stream that brings in so much money and they want no risks with that....(like iPhone) they are happy to throw money around into "R&D" so investors get excited. Investing in R&D does not mean new products......

case in example... http://www.coca-colacompany.com/sto...obal-scale-to-take-innovations-further-faster

R&D is a PR/Marketing dream

What is R&D? It could be re-defined as an "executive encounter cruise" to Tahiti, and I don't mean the chip.
[doublepost=1489187373][/doublepost]

Just another step in Apple ruining the store experience.

In the U.K. At least, the support I used to receive several years ago was always excellent. Always felt the staff went above and beyond to help.

Now, they're unhelpful and you get ignored a lot of the time. I've had a manager tell me to my face I was lying.

This - I fear - will just make things worse.

In Portlandia, I can tell you that there are two main stores here have very different attitudes. One store has staff that is extremely polite and helpful, so I'll go miles out of my way to that store. I won't mention any specifics, but the downtown store has a disproportionate number of noodle-armed millennial hipsters that more often than not substitute Project Runway-like snippiness for customer service skills and technical knowledge of what they are selling. I really don't enjoy being the guy on the floor with more Mac/tech knowledge than 99% of the people working there.

Maybe I went there on a "bad day" when someone ran out of beard oil, etc.

The pre-purchase advice on MacRumors is generally better than what you will experience walking into one of the Apple showrooms.

 

[dogslobber]

Rapport? Restaurant servers, the driver on my bus route, my barber, my car guy, my landscaper, etc. all have rapport with me and other customers. None of these people learned being human by going to a class cross country -- or even cross town. Give me a break. Also we are talking about hourly wage employees that likely are working at the store while they get through school or as a jumping board. There are not long termer and Apple doesn't see them that way either. This is retail. So no, it doesn't make sense for Apple to spend $1K plus on each of them for training at a very remote location.

Clearly you didn't understand my point. Go back and re-read it before you comment further.

 

[jordanleven]

This could also be part of a "green" initiative. Fewer flights to Cupertino = lower carbon emissions. Also, most repairs are sent out these days for replacement (it's easier to process in bulk).

Apple isn't green. They used to ship us three-inch parts in a two foot box.

 

[charlituna]

Will videos teach them to interact & communicate well with real people,
inspire them to represent the brand?
make them feel they are more special that some retail employee who is told to site in the back room of a mall store and watch videos?
no, no. and no.

they already got all of that before they ever became a genius. because Apple rarely to never hires someone straight to that position anymore. You were either a geek squad, or you hired in as a sales person and worked your way up.
[doublepost=1489212012][/doublepost]

"This means that many customers who check their computers in for repair may have their device serviced by someone who has never physically worked on their model of computer before," said a person familiar with the matter.

which is exactly what happens every time a new model comes out. they don't ship all the geniuses back up to Cupe to train them. They send out PDFs and videos and those old hands have to figure it out on their own.

 

[MH01]

Sorry I think everyone who is "outraged" by this is way overreacting. I'm not a fan of either TC or AA with her "Burberrization" of Apple but I can't honestly say Apple Stores have gone down hill under her guidance. The remodeled stores are top notch in giving customers a good feeling and clearly were not designed on the cheap. There is a difference between penny pinching and trimming the fat.

Outraged ? Your words mate.

There is also a differnce between presenting that nothing has changed and penny pinching behind the scenes...look at the staff, and how happy they are.

I disagree, under AA getting products has been a mess. From being pushed to online to buy products to pre-ordering being the slowest way to get a product. Last time I was there there, very few people buying new products , everyone was there for service and the staff looked shattered. I disagree with your assessment. They looked overworked and customers like myself had to wait 30-40 minutes, even the managers looked stressed.

I thanked the guy who helped me out, I could tell he was worn out, and said no worries about the 30min wait

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Clearly you didn't understand my point. Go back and re-read it before you comment further.

If I didn't understand it as you wrote it then you need to re-state it. My comment is based on as I read your comment.
[doublepost=1489243460][/doublepost]

When a company is making a profit of 100 million dollars a day, this definitely counts as penny pinching.

Very true, but those pennies do add up. Plenty of bankrupt former multimillionaires and companies claim witness to that fact. Responsible corporate governance is such that if the expense can't be justified it should go. Period.
[doublepost=1489243682][/doublepost]

Outraged ? Your words mate.

Yes, absolutely 100%. My words to describe all the hand wringing over nothing going on here about this subject. Look, if in-store Apple customer service and repair quality makes a noticeable decline in the next year please come back and give me a well deserved "told ya so." I'll gladly eat crow. But I don't think that has any chance of happening. This will be a forgotten thread and people will be moaning that Apple doesn't put stickers in boxes anymore or something else frivolous.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Exactly. In contrast to vintage IBM ThinkPads where virtually every component was a FRU (Field Replaceable Unit), Apple devices are pretty much at a state where nothing less than the entire device is a FRU. How much training does it take to run a few pre-canned diagnostic tools, a visual inspection checklist for physical damage, and slap a shipping label on a box?

I think this move says more about the repairability of FUTURE products.

Here is somethign to repair.
Inverter for the screen. Is apple prepared to fully replace a less than 1 yr faulty notebook with failed inverter for the screen with a brand new one? Less profits to gain off a new unit if that is used to replace one unit.

 

[sracer]

Here is somethign to repair.
Inverter for the screen. Is apple prepared to fully replace a less than 1 yr faulty notebook with failed inverter for the screen with a brand new one? Less profits to gain off a new unit if that is used to replace one unit.

You are assuming that a faulty notebook under warranty repair would be replaced with a brand new unit. In addition, the total cost/benefit of a straight up replacement factors many other things (like time/salary of the technician to make the repair vs. swapping the unit out).

The repair index for the Macbook Pro w/Touch Bar is a 1 out of 10. They are designed to be replaced, not repaired. That is not to say that damaged units are scrapped but that they will be dismantled by lower paid workers that will reclaim the components.

 

[Irock619]

I guess Apple doesn't know how most people learn....

70% learn more hands on
20% learn more from others
10% learn more from training

 

[Cole Slaw]

Well I guess this is to save a bit of money.
When you're a struggling company like Apple every cent counts, though.
I'm hoping they get rid of the customer service department next.
Dumping CS will enable Tim to scrounge together a few more pennies.
Poor guy, just trying to make ends meet.

 

[Winni]

Think that's bad? We professional pilots do the samething. Training is all done in the simulator. First flight in an actual airplane is usually a revenue flight with passengers.

At least you "flew" a simulator. If you want to make this a 1:1 comparison, you pilots would have only watched a video of someone else flying the simulator and your first actual experience would be the revenue flight with passengers...

 

[amegicfox]

Soldering doesn't affect recycleability. And Steve Jobs was the one who envisioned a computer where the user never touched the insides. Wozniak was the reason the initial Macs were upgradable.

yes but Steve kept Mac updated with the latest and greatest hardware and software.

Cook keeps a core neutered Mac Mini that is 4 years old and has soldered RAM

 

[JamesPDX]

At least you "flew" a simulator. If you want to make this a 1:1 comparison, you pilots would have only watched a video of someone else flying the simulator and your first actual experience would be the revenue flight with passengers...

@hortod1 Did you do a barrel-roll with the 787 or an A380 on final approach?

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I'm shocked to hear they even bothered with any kind of training. I took an iPod Touch in for a new battery a couple of years ago and their policy was to ONLY exchange it for one with a working battery (make sure yours is backed up) They said they would have to send the device away for (weeks) and that was the only option since they had none of the 4th Gen still in stock, only 5th Gen and they sure as hell weren't giving me one of those instead! I'm like, why can't you just change the battery yourselves? "Oh we don't change the batteries here for god's sake! What did you think we were? Geniuses? Hahahahahahahahahahahh"

They won't sell you a battery to do it yourself either. Driving over an hour to the nearest Apple store was a total waste of my time and gas. They shouldn't be called "geniuses". They should be called FECKING IDIOTS.

 

[KPOM]

yes but Steve kept Mac updated with the latest and greatest hardware and software.

Cook keeps a core neutered Mac Mini that is 4 years old and has soldered RAM

But processor speeds haven't changed all that much. Intel has been focused on power consumption. Not really an issue for a desktop.

 

[fruitstand survivor]

Having worked as a Genius in a store I can tell you the webinar approach was a huge disaster. Time after time we were assigned to watch videos but given no work station apart from the computers in the cramped lunchroom. You'd have to remember to bring earbuds to have a chance to hear audio over conversations. We always had a backlog of required training to go through anyway as stores failed to schedule required study time. And how does a webinar help with hands on unit repairs (larger strategy to take that away, too). All of this was predictable from our view in the bleachers and one of the reasons there is an enormous attrition rate among technicians in Apple Retail. A once-proud unit decimated by small minds

 

[ZMacintosh]

I'm guessing that the people applying to Apple as a Genius to repair devices don't come with no experience in repairing devices - they aren't "most people". Still a computer or phone is no where near as complex as any modern car. For example, it takes nearly a week to build a BMW. An iPhone or Mac takes minutes or hours.

I'm also guessing Apple doesn't hire people to repair that have no experience or other qualifications indicating they have that ability. Home builders don't hire real estate agents to do framing, electrical or plumbing either.

Also guessing individual store managers do not let rookies go it alone anymore than a law firm gives first chair in high profile cases to first year associates.

Bottomline here is my confidence is unchanged here that if I go to an Apple Store for a repair it will be done correctly. The way the person doing the repair learned - I don't care. Apple has certified that they know how to do it to Apple standards.

If you've ever been to an Apple Retail hiring event or worked there recently, that is incorrect. They hire for soft skills vs hard skills...some can be trained on either or, however most get hired recently are not technicians or skilled by trade. And overseeing some of them in a back of house environment struggle quite a bit, hence why they ship most mobile devices (MacBooks, etc) to depot and desktops done in house.

Apple never cared about hiring techies, geeks, or good hardware repairers. so unfortunately that assessment is incorrect.

 

[deckard666]

Yeah I am sure Apple are happy to throw away their hard earnt top marks customer service records. What other companies transport staff such distance for training these days ?

 

[bruinsrme]

For clarification -- are you comparing replacing a transmission with replacing an iPhone screen? Dissembling a car's console to replace a steering wheel airbag to Disassembling a iMac to replace the hard drive?

Macs and iPhones are no where near as complex as cars. Repairing iPhones and Macs is really not that difficult of a learning curve at all. Yes, it can be done with video training. How do you think all those people in Mall repair kiosks learned? All those middle and high school hobbyists?

This whole thing is much ado about nothing. I'm all for being critical of Apple where it deserves criticism. This is not one of them.
[doublepost=1489149801][/doublepost]

But they do -- they make it available after the live show. That is how many people do view it. Personally I would love it if they just released a video instead of a live event so I could skip though the 1 hour and 40 minutes of BS and get to the 20 min. of info that I actually want to see.

They post the keynote after the fact.
Videos would be a great follow up/refresher to build on after the initial training.

Do you honestly think the impact of having the CEO and Phil would have the same media attention or impact to investors, tech outlets and apple fans if it was posted as a video?

 

[CraigB1960]

This seems to be a continuing trend. My last two visits to the Genius Bar have been, in my opinion, less than good. Not a lot of help at the time (and it now takes 3-5 days to even get an appointment!) and they just took the laptops and sent them away for repairs, meaning I or my customer was without a laptop for 5 days. This new "training" philosophy seems to only accentuate that; the techs at the stores will no longer be able to do any actual repairs onsite, just send them away to hardware-trained techs elsewhere. I think the Geniuses are now just software/Apple ID issue support people now. Not actual hardware support.

I agree with your assessment. Simply not much expertise there...considering they took my laptop, sent it off for 5 day turn-around just to change the battery. I could of and should of done it myself as I did when I upgraded my WiFi board to support my Apple Watch a couple of weeks later.

 

[indcwby]

Apple never cared about hiring techies, geeks, or good hardware repairers. so unfortunately that assessment is incorrect.

As a former Mac Genius/Lead, I can say that your assessment is incorrect. There was a time when they did care. I don't know about other locations, but the region I worked in prided in the fact that we had the best Genius teams because they could do any repair back of house (BOH) irregardless what was presented. Our managers specifically looked for people who had "The Knack" (Dilbert Reference). We also looked at internal candidates to promote who could do the job because they had the special skill set.

The Genius Team was one of impressive knowledge who could always think outside of the box where training materials could not provide an answer. The trainer I had in Cupertino helped morph minds into having such thought processes. That talent and knowledge is what helps the Apple Brand. Those who stood behind the bar were worthy of the title of Mac Genius.

Now, you don't see such quality expertise anymore. This comment isn't meant to insult the current Genius team, but seriously, there are some individuals out there that would never have been a Genius back in the day.

I witnessed a customer coming in for the 3rd time to the bar (per the customers statement) because the OS would dim her screen in the evening (Night Shift). The Genius team members who had assisted her had confirmed and wiped out her drive twice. They were about to check it in to do a Depot Repair, but while I was waiting for my turn, I asked to look at it and saw that Night Shift was turned off, but the user also had Flux installed. Flux needed to be removed and it would be fine. User kept restoring from Time Machine.
Your average customer wouldn't have known that. But that's where 'outside of the box' thinking comes in. I don't know if Apple's KBase/GSX/Whatever they call it now has that.
When your move away from molding minds and expect videos to do the training instead, the result isn't good. I fear that someday, Apple may become just another brand......