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CCP has no quarrel with Apple. Apple has been extremely docile and provides plenty jobs in China.
You are correct but Apple represents the United States and a easy target. Apple just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time or is it the right time? 🤷‍♂️😂
 
Nobody is going to buy the hardware without 3rd party applications. And the "Mac Computer" platform seemed to be doing just fine without an App Store. Yes it does make it more secure overall; but on the desktop in a lot of ways it makes it a pain in the ass.

But computers are also very different devices. They don't have to work in an emergency. They are not also my ID badge and credit cards. They don't monitor my biometrics 23/7. The security and stability of a mobile device is far more important than any 3rd party app.
 
All the people rooting for Apple here - are any of you actually developers that sell apps or In-App Purchases?

I can’t imagine anyone that has put in the thousands of hours of work to make an app, then thinks it’s cool that Apple does virtually nothing but receives a 30% cut.

What Apple does here is rent seeking, plain and simple. They’re a leach providing nothing of value. They’re a middle man to an actual payment processor which would charge less than 3% (and Apple has likely negotiated for a much lower rate than the 3% an independent developer would pay.) Apple charges 10x while adding absolutely nothing, just because they can.

The practice is without a doubt immoral, and I expect that at least some courts in the world will find it illegal.
I am a developer since 2011ish.

I can tell you the $99/year fee we pay does not cover all of the nice resources and improvements we’ve gotten over the past decade.

30% had only helped me develop more apps through developer improvements which in turn gets more people buying more apps (increasing the pie)
 
They could immediately deprecate old APIs and not carry them forward for a time, etc...
Nearly every year there is a new iOS release, nearly every year something breaks, needs an update or change, every few months Apple comes around the corner with some new rules and guidelines. When everything works fine, something within a third party framework breaks.

As a developer I can tell you that an app is expensive and I‘m not talking about the development. It is a give and take - Apple delivers a great platform and developers deliver great apps. No one could exist without the other and Apple couldn‘t live without millions of developers making the platform attractive to others.
 
I guess you don't remember the days before online stores. People actually use to buy software on discs, etc. You should learn some history. LOL

Those were the days. To-do list software cost $200, you had to have a pair of red glasses to decode your paper plate wheels of passwords, and you needed a hardware dongle to play RoboCop.
 
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Nearly every year there is a new iOS release, nearly every year something breaks, needs an update or change, every few months Apple comes around the corner with some new rules and guidelines. When everything works fine, something within a third party framework breaks.

As a developer I can tell you that an app is expensive and I‘m not talking about the development. It is a give and take - Apple delivers a great platform and developers deliver great apps. No one could exist without the other and Apple couldn‘t live without millions of developers making the platform attractive to others.

Yeah, I stopped buying apps that don't have a history of frequent updates because charging to fix broken software is morally wrong.
 
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You sure...? Shouldn't Apple have had some better quality control in their store...? hmmm.....

There's a reason they are so damn desperate to push Apple Arcade... (spoilers: they messed up and can't clean the mess now)
You are already complaining when Apple exercises any sort of control over the store. Imagine if they banned apps for simply not being “cool enough” or “different enough from other apps.”
 
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I am a developer since 2011ish.

I can tell you the $99/year fee we pay does not cover all of the nice resources and improvements we’ve gotten over the past decade.

30% had only helped me develop more apps through developer improvements which in turn gets more people buying more apps (increasing the pie)

This is one of several actual dev's in this thread explaining why the 30% is not just a cash-grab by Apple.
Those are people who actually give 30% of their revenue to Apple.

Yet dozens of non-developers on here seem to know better...
 
You are already complaining when Apple exercises any sort of control over the store. Imagine if they banned apps for simply not being “cool enough” or “different enough from other apps.”

Oh man. Imagine if the App Store review process included 1000 random users who got that app for free and were asked would you pay $X for this? And you needed 80% yes to get in?
 
I agree with this post. But I’d add the cost of development and documentation of XCode, the development and documentation of all the various APIs, the cost of WWDC, support to developers in other forms, etc... Without the App Store and supporting only Apple-developed apps, Apple’s costs would be far less. They could immediately deprecate old APIs and not carry them forward for a time, etc...

The cost of WWDC? You realize they charge money for that event right?
 
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Those were the days. To-do list software cost $200, you had to have a pair of red glasses to decode your paper plate wheels of passwords, and you needed a hardware dongle to play RoboCop.

I'd love for you to find us a standalone to-do list that cost $200.
 
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LOL Such a joke. No idea how old he/she is, but I've downloaded (and distributed) software online for 30 years.
In what alternate reality were you downloading/distributing software on line before the World Wide Web existed and a good decade before software was even beginning to be distributed online on any kind of regular basis? Through bulletin boards? Perhaps you are the evangelist that was doing it a decade before it started to catch on (I remember updates starting to be distributed around 2000 but most software, other than very small things, still came in a box even to 2005) but I am going to go out on a limb and call this BS. It you had said a decade, I would believe you. If you had said 15 years, I would say "cool, he was on the cutting edge." But 30 years just makes it clear that you are, well, not being honest or accurate.

Given the number of members who responded to your post in a similar manner to my response I have to think I am not alone in calling you out on this.
 
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Imagine if literally ALL of these third party apps ceased to exist on iPhone and iPad. The platform would be worthless.

So yes, Apple needs third party developers quite badly. They should treat them better.

It seems third party developers need to on the App Store so much that they will accept a lot of abuse. Which is why I like the Apple ecosystem where developers are treated like third rate guest workers.
 
That's the whole point. The distinction between digital goods and everything else is 100% arbitrary on the part of Apple. Why should a developer who sells car rides be treated any differently than a developer that sells games?

Because Apple as a store owner has decided it.
Yes, it is that simple sometimes.

Also, it is not arbitrary. Apple probably put much thought about making this distinction quite early in the history of the App Store.
 
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All the people rooting for Apple here - are any of you actually developers that sell apps or In-App Purchases?

I can’t imagine anyone that has put in the thousands of hours of work to make an app, then thinks it’s cool that Apple does virtually nothing but receives a 30% cut.

What Apple does here is rent seeking, plain and simple. They’re a leach providing nothing of value. They’re a middle man to an actual payment processor which would charge less than 3% (and Apple has likely negotiated for a much lower rate than the 3% an independent developer would pay.) Apple charges 10x while adding absolutely nothing, just because they can.

The practice is without a doubt immoral, and I expect that at least some courts in the world will find it illegal.

Have you shopped in any store (physical) ever? If you have, you would know that you pay MORE than the actual cost of whatever product/merchandise you take to the register. In many instances, it's WAY more than 30% markup.
People arguing that Apple provides value by providing the platform tend to forget that the apps are what makes the platform valuable. Would you want an iPhone/iPad if it didn’t have Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Netflix, Google Maps, Waze, SnapChat, you banking apps, investment apps, smart home apps, security apps, Slack, MS Office, WeChat, Zoom, Hulu, Disney Plus, Amazon Prime Instant Video, and much more?

Imagine if literally ALL of these third party apps ceased to exist on iPhone and iPad. The platform would be worthless.

So yes, Apple needs third party developers quite badly. They should treat them better.

Apple will say they do treat them pretty darn well. They provide the CUSTOMERS that own the iOS device. Plus all the tools to develop on the platform. They created the store and distribution system to get developers paid and customers the applications safely and securely. Apple is one of the most well known companies in the WORLD. Getting an application on the AppStore will more than likely sell your product. Just like being on Amazon or in Walmart, etc.

By your statement. Every developer would have their own store to sell you there stuff. You would most likely miss out on many of them.
 
Seriously, people make such dumb arguments about hosting.
If there was no App Store and Apple allowed you to install your own Apps......
Sure... developers would do it easily. As they have for 20+ years on Windows and Mac.

People seem to think hosting an app for download is incredibly hard.... people around here are really pampered to think putting a binary online is either difficult or expensive. Same with payment processing. I realize a lot of you are too young to have actually used a real computer, but its not that hard.

Apple's biggest value here is the ease in which you can find and download... but you know how I find and download at least half my apps? From company websites that have a button for downloading their app from the app store. I don't actually NEED Apple to even get in the middle of that, nor do app developers. Its just a convenience. A convenience of which doesn't round up to costing Apple a single penny since digital distribution is cheaper than dirt.

Sure, very few were side loading Fortnite on Android. But again, that is a cultural issue in my mind. Because anyone playing Fortnite on PC or Mac is side loading.

I'm not arguing for getting rid of the app store, just some of these arguments that keep coming up are pitifully weak and overused. Having an ecosystem of Apps helps Apple sell devices, devices don't sell Apps. People don't buy an iPhone for the experience of having Netflix or Youtube or Fortnite or any other app. If Apple didn't have the most popular cross platform apps, people wouldn't buy Apple. People around here seem to think if Apple kept building iPhones that worked like the first iPhone (Which I owned from day 1) and didn't have a library of apps, that they would have sold 1.5 billion devices.

You do realize the iPhone came out BEFORE apps?
 
Didn't read all the messages in this thread but I will say that I don't see anything wrong with Apple charging to use their platform. Apple worked hard to build a great platform and customer base so why is it criminal for them to charge developers to gain access to this platform? 30% is reasonable as well. Hopefully the courts dismiss this case.
 
I guess you don't remember the days before online stores. People actually use to buy software on discs, etc. You should learn some history. LOL
And the number of people who bought software online then pales in comparison to the number of people who do now, and it wasn’t a great experience overall. What Apple has done is massively grow the pie by making it such that anyone, even your grandma, can easily safely buy software online with the tap of a button.

It’s like saying that smartphones had already existed prior to the iPhone, without acknowledging that what Apple did effectively revolutionised the entire industry and changed the way things were done.
 
All the people rooting for Apple here - are any of you actually developers that sell apps or In-App Purchases?

I can’t imagine anyone that has put in the thousands of hours of work to make an app, then thinks it’s cool that Apple does virtually nothing but receives a 30% cut.

What Apple does here is rent seeking, plain and simple. They’re a leach providing nothing of value. They’re a middle man to an actual payment processor which would charge less than 3% (and Apple has likely negotiated for a much lower rate than the 3% an independent developer would pay.) Apple charges 10x while adding absolutely nothing, just because they can.

The practice is without a doubt immoral, and I expect that at least some courts in the world will find it illegal.

I feel it's the Apple house, so it's Apple rule.
If they don't like it they can skip Apple's business.
 
I feel it's the Apple house, so it's Apple rule.
If they don't like it they can skip Apple's business.

Or they can build their own platform and customer base then give third party access free of charge. Bet it would be different then though.
 
LOL. This is hilarious. Provide nothing of value? These devs would be making 0% of $0 without Apple.

Without arbitrary restrictions on where apps can be installed from, I could quite easily make more. Apple's app store provides little to no value.

CC processing? Plenty of alternatives out there.
Visibility? Yeah right - what percentage of apps did you get because you searched for an app you didn't know about in the app store? You learn about apps outside the app store, not in it.

... so... what? What exactly is Apple providing? Do you use the Mac App Store? How much do you use that, vs just downloading straight from the developer's website? Most devs don't bother with the MAS, because it's pretty worthless and Apple takes a massive cut. It's the exact same situation on iOS, except Apple has arbitrary restrictions on iOS that competition is not permitted to exist - you must use the iOS App Store if you want to install additional apps, end of story.
 
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