Apple Reveals 2012 Final Cut Pro X Update with Multichannel Audio Editing, RED Support and More

[yoak]

If anyone worked for be and got a RED system, I would ask him/her to justify the advantages compared to a Canon DSLR or pay back the difference and make up for low light performance.

If that's all FCP can come out with, they're lost. We need to see FCP designers come crying on their knees and ask for forgiveness, then they need mental treatment to figure out why they ever thought normal people would come out with a product like this.

300 fps, 2k, 120 fps 4k etc.
No aliasing, an image that's not even comparable after you see them next to each other, I could go on.
Until you shot with a RED EPIC extensively, you just don't know what you are missing.
The clients that care pay for the difference

 

[LethalWolfe]

With all of the yelling and crying and fist pounding being done over FCPX, with all of these so-called "professionals" promising to switch to Avid and never look back, the truth is that most users haven't switched. And rightfully so. It's too soon to switch.

Saying it's 'too soon' depends on when the clock started. Many FCP users I know have been waiting for a revamp of FCP since version 6 (2007) and were disappointed with small bump that was FCP 7 (2009). So when FCP X came out in 2011 the evaluation process for Avid and Adobe had already been going on for 12-24 months and the only thing holding them back was the hope that Apple would release FCP 8. When X dropped that was the final nail in the coffin and they started the ball rolling for switching. What appeared like a knee jerk reaction to many was actually years in the making.

For most professionals, large or small, it doesn't make sense to switch NLEs at the drop of a hat. In fact, it doesn't really make sense to DROP NLEs at all. I always suggest people add to their toolset, not drop things from it. My best advice? Learn everything. Learn all you can.

Agreed, but there are so many hours in the day. I'd love to mess around with FCPX to see what it has to offer but being proficient with Avid, After Effects and Resolve will help me make a living in my area so that's where my 'learn new stuff' time gets budgeted.


Lethal

 

[Zwhaler]

Haha well we just got 10.0.4. I havent even updated all the computers just in case something goes wrong.
Remember in the "professional" world, you never ever update during crunch time

While I do agree with this, I have to say that FCP X 10.0.0 was really buggy and the updates have made it a lot more stable, fixed precision editor, fixed the EQ bug that caused it to crash, etc. Updating actually took a project that always exported a partially corrupted audio file and fixed it! (that was 10.0.3) The latest update sped up the performance and improved overall stability for me.

 

[linuxcooldude]

So when FCP X came out in 2011 the evaluation process for Avid and Adobe had already been going on for 12-24 months and the only thing holding them back was the hope that Apple would release FCP 8. When X dropped that was the final nail in the coffin and they started the ball rolling for switching. What appeared like a knee jerk reaction to many was actually years in the making.

Even if a lot of regular users switch, I don't think that will effect FCP X much at all. With a lower price point and the next up & coming generation of video editors, eventually putting FCP X back where it once was before. Perhaps even ahead of where it was before. I think now with a lot of features being replaced we will see some older FCP7 users come back again.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Even if a lot of regular users switch, I don't think that will effect FCP X much at all. With a lower price point and the next up & coming generation of video editors, eventually putting FCP X back where it once was before. Perhaps even ahead of where it was before. I think now with a lot of features being replaced we will see some older FCP7 users come back again.

How much you think losing higher end editors will impact FCPX sales in part depends on much you think of a Halo effect there is. As far as the next gen of editors goes... Avid's EDU license is only $295 and comes with 4 or 5 years of free upgrades and if you are a budding editor right now and your goal is to edit on big projects in NY or LA you should probably learn Avid because that's what 99% of those projects are going to be using. How much of that changes 3, 4, 5 years down the line is difficult to predict because technology changes so fast.

I think FCPX is certainly poised to ship more units because I think their core audience now is not editors but people where editing is one facet of their job that is a much larger pool to pull from. That doesn't mean it's not good enough to be used by someone who edits full time, I just think that the non-editor is the primary target for X. Video production is becoming a new form of literacy so there is only going to be a growing market of people that need to edit often but not on a daily basis and/or not on the level of a Hollywood movie or network TV show. It's like, I use word processing software on nearly a daily basis even though I'm not a professional writer.

Whether or not Apple is poised to make a run for some higher-end work that FCP 7 was/still is being used for remains to be seen. I don't know if Apple ever really intended to be there in the first place so I don't know if they have any desire to go back. As quickly as Apple dipped their toes in the water (Shake, Color, Final Cut Svr, exclusive deal w/RED etc.,) they'd pull them right back out again.


Lethal

 

[linuxcooldude]

I just think that the non-editor is the primary target for X

I think it can be used by both either way.

1)By the beginners, with a much smaller learning curve and getting started right away.

2) By the seasoned veteran, by creating the content artistically, not just by editing video. A lot of his steps are easier/simplified too, so he can concentrate more on the creative side of things, instead of thinking how hes going to edit the video to get the end result. I think thats the idea Apple was trying to do.

If you are a budding editor right now and your goal is to edit on big projects in NY or LA you should probably learn Avid because that's what 99% of those projects are going to be using.

Don't see what this really has anything to do with it. Same thing applies even before FCP X even came out or speculated it would be more like FCP 8.

 

[mBox]

Whether or not Apple is poised to make a run for some higher-end work that FCP 7 was/still is being used for remains to be seen.

Only time will tell if Apple does get back to where we (the users) place them in our hearts and mind
FCPX is all but one tool in the many that we're lucky to have.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I think it can be used by both either way.

1)By the beginners, with a much smaller learning curve and getting started right away.

2) By the seasoned veteran, by creating the content artistically, not just by editing video. A lot of his steps are easier/simplified too, so he can concentrate more on the creative side of things. I think thats the idea Apple was trying to do.

I agree on both points, but simplifying something doesn't necessarily make it better. I'm always reminded of Alan Kay's quote, " Simple things should be simple, complex things should be possible." Is an automatic transmission better than a manual? Is a point and shoot camera better than a DSLR? It all depends on the user and the situation. Part of the job of an editor (or an assistant editor) is to occasionally overcome problems that none of the hardware and software makers ever encountered and/or conceived of and in order to do that you need a certain amount of flexibility and power in the tool. Of course the more flexibility and power you have in a tool the greater the learning curve so that is the line that always has to be walked.

For example, I've used FCP's custom ability to make custom project and sequence settings to overcome problems that would otherwise be insurmountable. On the flip side I've seen people, who didn't know what they were doing, mess with the sequence settings and totally screw up the project. I wish FCPX had an 'advanced mode' and an 'easy mode' (like DVD SP does).

Don't see what this really has anything to do with it. Same thing applies even before FCP X even came out or speculated it would be more like FCP 8.

You mentioned price point and next gen of editors so I mentioned that Avid's EDU license was cheaper than FCPX, came with 4-5yrs of free updates and that next gen editors might be drawn to using the tools most used by professionals they want to be like. I think it was a perfectly relevant thing to say. Prior to X coming out I would've said you'd need to know FCP 7 and/or Avid.


Lethal

 

[mBox]

Don't see what this really has anything to do with it. Same thing applies even before FCP X even came out or speculated it would be more like FCP 8.

I thought about that too when reading the many doom and gloom posts from the FCPX aftermath.
I mean it was always Avid MC for Hollywood and FCP for low-budget.
Sure there was some done at a higher level (Cold Mountain? sorry didnt see it) and a few tv shows but I always thought it was Avid being used at the upper level.

 

[linuxcooldude]

I wish FCPX had an 'advanced mode' and an 'easy mode'

I think the more advanced settings are there, just more transparent to the end user until he's ready to use them. Such as in the menu system, keyboard shortcuts ect.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I thought about that too when reading the many doom and gloom posts from the FCPX aftermath.
I mean it was always Avid MC for Hollywood and FCP for low-budget.
Sure there was some done at a higher level (Cold Mountain? sorry didnt see it) and a few tv shows but I always thought it was Avid being used at the upper level.

There was a fair amount of cross over between Avid and FCP 6/7 though Avid was used more often the higher up the food chain you went. FCP certainly started out in the 'Hey, it's all I an afford' category and worked it's way up to 'I have a big budget and I choose FCP'.

I think the more advanced settings are there, just more transparent to the end user until he's ready to use them. Such as in the menu system, keyboard shortcuts ect.

Some are but others are gone and I doubt destined to return. And then there's some seemingly simple features missing, like persistent I/O points on clips in the Event Browser, and it's like really...?


Lethal

 

[Boisv]

Saying it's 'too soon' depends on when the clock started. Many FCP users I know have been waiting for a revamp of FCP since version 6 (2007) and were disappointed with small bump that was FCP 7 (2009). So when FCP X came out in 2011 the evaluation process for Avid and Adobe had already been going on for 12-24 months and the only thing holding them back was the hope that Apple would release FCP 8. When X dropped that was the final nail in the coffin and they started the ball rolling for switching. What appeared like a knee jerk reaction to many was actually years in the making.


Agreed, but there are so many hours in the day. I'd love to mess around with FCPX to see what it has to offer but being proficient with Avid, After Effects and Resolve will help me make a living in my area so that's where my 'learn new stuff' time gets budgeted.


Lethal

Agreed. And for a lot of people, the switch makes the most sense. For a portion of the industry, there's now the question of how long we can hang on with FCP7. To me, that is Apple's biggest mistake. They seemed to treat this too much like an iPod launch, and I feel like they should have phased it out over time, with a known schedule. The really pulled out the rug from everyone, and FCPX was clearly not ready to replace it. I would so love to have heard what the reasoning was for these decisions.

 

[mBox]

..And then there's some seemingly simple features missing, like persistent I/O points on clips in the Event Browser, and it's like really...?

This one I find odd. Most of the time, I found the lingering i/o on my resource clips in the bin a bit of a pain. Then the fact that you cant have more than one set so you need to subclip which is also a pain in both FCP and Avid.
I like the keyword and favorite options especially for my workflow.
The plus for me is the option to sift them.
Again its not for all so I guess I lucked out with this feature

 

[LethalWolfe]

I would so love to have heard what the reasoning was for these decisions.

Agreed. It's been talked about a ton, but for a company that is typically so great with PR the whole FCPX launch (starting w/the last minute hijacking of the Supermeet at NAB last year) was a completely out of character nightmare.

This one I find odd. Most of the time, I found the lingering i/o on my resource clips in the bin a bit of a pain. Then the fact that you cant have more than one set so you need to subclip which is also a pain in both FCP and Avid.
I like the keyword and favorite options especially for my workflow.
The plus for me is the option to sift them.
Again its not for all so I guess I lucked out with this feature

I'd never use the I/O for permanent marking of clips (that's markers or subclips are for) but for a temp marking if I was comparing multiple audio or video clips. It's like if you were comparing multiple PDFs and every time you switched focus from one PDF to the next the PDF in the 'background' would automatically go back to page 1.


Lethal

 

[mBox]

I'd never use the I/O for permanent marking of clips (that's markers or subclips are for) but for a temp marking if I was comparing multiple audio or video clips. It's like if you were comparing multiple PDFs and every time you switched focus from one PDF to the next the PDF in the 'background' would automatically go back to page 1.l

Aaah we all have that problem with some app or another. Those are the little things I hate when it comes to software development. When Maya first came out, there was these little quirks that drove me nuts and I made sure they knew that.
Well it turns out I wasnt the only one so little by little it was fixed over a few versions.
Now hoping thats whats happening with FCPX

 

[jonnysods]

Check out the following links:

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_homepage_index.html

http://www.dingdingmusic.com/DingDing/FCPx1.html

The "How it works" was free at one time but now its PayPal.
Its worth it.
There is also an awesome $40 tutorial from Ripple Training:

http://www.rippletraining.com/categ...-products/final-cut-pro-10-core-training.html

Have fun and ask anything

Thank you for your help!! I really appreciate those links.

How do you find using FCPX?

 

[mBox]

Thank you for your help!! I really appreciate those links.

How do you find using FCPX?

IMHO it works! I come from a Avid Media Composer (15 years) and FCP legacy (11 years) background. Its not FCP7 or 8 its a new way of doing things.
I love the new tools and old tools that got changed.
Just dont get caught up with the hype.
Use it and abuse it I say

 

[Rocketman]

I think we went through a period of a couple of years where the Apple team was getting stuff out fast and loose so Steve could see it before he died. Now that the chapter is closed we have seen several notable changes under Cook. Buy backs, dividends, some forward vision on products, notably a wideband rollout of iPad worldwide sufficient to annoy scalpers. I hope we also start seeing a tested, debugged OS accepted as good and only add bells and whistles to revisions. I see that tick-tock works for chips and iPhones, so why not tick-tock-tock for OS? That would give a full cycle available for a debugging stage, a full 1-1.5 years.

Of course we may see the redacting of computers per se entirely to solve that issue rather than Apple maintaining an actual pro/content creation model at all.

I think Apple should spin out the lower margin product lines to a company, preferably private not public, to shepherd the lines that cannot support a 40% margin in the long run. Plenty of companies do great with 15% margins. The server and pro and a new expandable mid-Mac would fit nicely in that type of company without IP leakage by selling it to third parties.

It would keep Intel in business after folks learn the limitations of Windows 8 desktop. A mid-Mac could replace a lot of utility PC's in small/mid business. It runs stable versions of Windows too.

Rocketman

 

[jonnysods]

IMHO it works! I come from a Avid Media Composer (15 years) and FCP legacy (11 years) background. Its not FCP7 or 8 its a new way of doing things.
I love the new tools and old tools that got changed.
Just dont get caught up with the hype.
Use it and abuse it I say

Thanks. I have been slowly studying it and using the trial, then I had a guy back out on buying FCS3 from me today. So it looks like it will be FCP7 until I can find a buyer!

 

[prowlmedia]

No chance you can rattle off 40-50 major productions. There are only a handful of major productions shot each year.

Of the movies listed as "Shot On Red", there are about 5 serious movies. The rest are nickelodeon flicks with low budgets or rely on tons of CG (in which case the shots don't have to be good).

REDs are notoriously unreliable. They fail frequently. Arri digital and Panasonic have taken over REDs space. DPs hate REDs, and I've never been on a set without at least one backup.

Depends what you consider a Major production I suppose. But it's being used in the UK on Many BBC and Sky productions.

I've never been on any set with out a main camera backup. Arri's are very nice. Still only 1080p. DP's don't hate RED. I've only known one failure on set in the past 3 Years of using RED's on set - and that was a heat issue. Cooled down and was fine.

----------

Where can one buy a new mac pro to test against, oh that's right there isn't one. AS far as Apple is concerned that 2 year mac pro is the new one, even says so on their website.

I really hope Apple drop the pro, hopefully only then we will shed the most rabid fan base of all - the so called "pros".

They skipped 1 Gen of CPU - probably as it wasn't really much of an upgrade. The E5's are Much better and have been heavily delayed from 11/11 to 04/12

Um the pros are what make the stuff for you norms - so back in your box.

 

[mBox]

Depends what you consider a Major production I suppose. But it's being used in the UK on Many BBC and Sky productions.

I've never been on any set with out a main camera backup. Arri's are very nice. Still only 1080p. DP's don't hate RED. I've only known one failure on set in the past 3 Years of using RED's on set - and that was a heat issue. Cooled down and was fine.

Just like the angst with Apple products, RED gets the same furious treatment as far as their product goes.
Use whatever works for you, if you dont then thats your take on what is being used.
People like to spew hate and spread false statements due to their own experiences.

 

[krazygoat]

Interesting in the years we have been using RED for productions including original hand build Epics on Pirates 4 I have not seen any issues with them. We shoot with pretty much everything under the sun, but most of what we are seeing is RED followed by the Alexa (we used those for Hugo). I like both and they each have their own strengths and weaknesses depending on what you are looking for. But I am sure you know more than we do at our studio that works on movies such as Avengers, Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol, Hugo, among many many others.

No chance you can rattle off 40-50 major productions. There are only a handful of major productions shot each year.

Of the movies listed as "Shot On Red", there are about 5 serious movies. The rest are nickelodeon flicks with low budgets or rely on tons of CG (in which case the shots don't have to be good).

REDs are notoriously unreliable. They fail frequently. Arri digital and Panasonic have taken over REDs space. DPs hate REDs, and I've never been on a set without at least one backup.

 

[kurga]

System FCPX

Dear forum,
I am setting up a Final Cut Pro X editing room for a feature I am shooting in Australia. I have never used it, or a mac, but due to the lack of funds/budget I need to set it up. What kind of a mac system would you recommend for me to buy, assuming it will be an HD feature, shot with at list 2 cameras, so quite a bit of footage. I was looking at mac pro, but which one? how much ram, how much Hard drives and what size and so on. I would appreciate any advice. Thanks a lot.
Kurga

 

[mBox]

Dear forum,
I am setting up a Final Cut Pro X editing room for a feature I am shooting in Australia. I have never used it, or a mac, but due to the lack of funds/budget I need to set it up. What kind of a mac system would you recommend for me to buy, assuming it will be an HD feature, shot with at list 2 cameras, so quite a bit of footage. I was looking at mac pro, but which one? how much ram, how much Hard drives and what size and so on. I would appreciate any advice. Thanks a lot.
Kurga

Use Lion on the latest Mac Pro to be safe. Video cards dont do squat. Ive used everything from Nvidia 4500, 4800 and 400 along with ATI 5770 and 5870 then add Mac Book Pro Nvidia (last offerings).
RAM of course and tons of it.
Then lastly get an SAS card with G-Tech RAID and set it to RAID 5 or their supplied DVRAID settings.
Avoids beach balling big time

 

[Icy1007]

640K ought to be enough for anybody

Back "in the day", 640K was enough.