Apple Reveals 2012 Final Cut Pro X Update with Multichannel Audio Editing, RED Support and More

[e-coli]

But admit your wrong that your statement that no one shoots with RED was off based.

Why don't you write out that list of 50 major productions while you're waiting.

Of course it's a personal choice. It is for any DP. But REDs have fallen out of favor across the industry. Their use is on the decline, mostly for reliability issues and because the codec isn't that great.

Sony will probably make inroads too with the introduction of their 8K cameras, but time will tell.

 

[yoak]

I for one is very happy with my RED EPIC, it does have some issues, but they are always taken care of by RED swiftly.
I've used it on all kinds of productions from TVC to TV series and even the Norwegian police academy's shooting simulator.
I've had it hanging from a helicopter and used it on boats, in extreme cold up on the mountains and it produces stunning images.
I bought Premiere just to be able to look at and do quick rough cuts. I'm very pleased to see that I can go back to final cut.

 

[powers74]

Who would have ever thought you couldn't migrate a project from FCP7 to FCPX?

FWIW CS-CS2 was unable to migrate if I recall correctly. It happens.

 

[handygeek]

You have empty PCIe slots in the current Mac Pro. You can put in a USB 3 card into one of them.

Alas, no empty slots available - another issue I have with Mac Pros, but that's another thread.

 

[jonnysods]

Sweet. I'm about to pull the trigger on this purchase in the next few days!

 

[Meandmunch]

This comment makes no sense for multiple reasons.

Funny, thought the same thing when I read it up top.

 

[bonehead]

Have you actually chained like 10 mac minis and used them to render something? It should most certainly beat any Mac Pro out there, while costing around the same. I know it would only work for the Compressor distributed rendering, but still, isn't that the thing which takes the most time?

It's not just about rendering. Editing on my MBP, which I have done on set or location, is noticeably slower than editing on a MacPro and that's working in ProRes LT 1080p. If I needed to work with ProRes 442 or a higher resolution the difference would be more pronounced. I can't stick a Kona card in a MBP.

 

[mBox]

FWIW CS-CS2 was unable to migrate if I recall correctly. It happens.

Not sure about going up but going back CS 5.5 was the only one that can go back to CS 5.

----------

Why don't you write out that list of 50 major productions while you're waiting.

Of course it's a personal choice. It is for any DP. But REDs have fallen out of favor across the industry. Their use is on the decline, mostly for reliability issues and because the codec isn't that great.

Sony will probably make inroads too with the introduction of their 8K cameras, but time will tell.

Then what? I cant even think of 50 major productions period. Its being used period. And for the dweeb with the Peter Jackson comment. Really? He didnt buy it? Well duh!! Im pretty sure he has a boad of directors that handles his production that has to also sign off on it.
God where do you trolls come from?

 

[milo]

Interesting how apple is making an exception to their cone of silence just for this one app...I wonder what it would take for Logic users to get some info about future plans for the app? Maybe if there was enough of a stink like with FCP users.

Why do some think a Mac Pro update is essential?

Maybe not completely essential but the previous models are long in the tooth. SATA III, usb3 (hopefully), thunderbolt. I'd love to see more ram slots in the base model.

Apple is leaving clues in FCPX that point towards the death of the Mac Pro. Some people may not like it but it's increasingly likely that the future of the Mac Pro are in stackable Mac Minis. Add as few or as many as you need, daisy chained via Thunderbolt -- and stackable custom hardware in the chain -- and you can get a mini render farm going, more powerful than even a Mac Pro. The FCPX app itself doesn't require more than today's MacBookPro's or an iMac.

I'm not a video guy, but at least for audio apps the minis are way too limited on ram. And for rendering they might be fine but some people need the processing power in real time.

MBP is almost as fast as 6 core Mac Pro in most of the benchmarks.

So did you forget that Apple sells a 12 core mac pro, or just intentionally ignoring that? Also, you can put 64 gigs of ram in a MP, can any of the laptops do that? And with the laptops the only fast drive option is TB which is very expensive and not as flexible as the MP options. Not to mention anyone that needs a PCI card for whatever reason.

 

[Rocketman]

Thanks TheSeb! As for the comments about what is shot on RED and I suppose the other hardware ecosystems as well, I don't think any less of a "small" production. In fact very small productions are enabled by the use of a purely digital work flow. The recent CMOS video pickups at very high resolutions allows traditional film making techniques to be used on low to moderate budget productions in all digital. This is a good thing. FCP, Premiere, Avid and others are riding that wave all the way to the bank and none of them are being blown out in the market by the others.

Apple lost focus in the market because it is not consumer, which is unfortunate because they were uniquely in a position to be in a first mover position on insanely great things in this space. I suppose the loss of their movie centric CEO was a factor.

I think it is notable Adobe Premiere was the first mover on Mac, has been steady in the race and is just as well positioned even with all the innovation that has occurred around them. Half the projects I have done were at some point in Premiere.

I suppose I am a FCP7 bigot however. You can do family movies, commercials, TV shows, movies or, get this, entire broadcast TV channels with all the details going through the ecosystem. That's amazing!

Rocketman

 

[deconstruct60]

http://images.apple.com/finalcutpro/in-action/

Apple updated their final cut website with some model implementations of their software. Of note is the fact that none of the studios/shows featured list the mac pro in their gear list.

I also want to see a refreshed mac pro, but I don't think this is where the wind is blowing.

I think you are reading too much into what their marketing case studies are trying to outline. There is a significant amount of FUD out there that " you need a Mac Pro to make Final Cut Pro useful". Likewise there is also corollary to that FUD that "the Mac Pro is really only good for Final Cut Pro (and the Apple only "Pro" apps)".

The case studies, in part, take on both of those. FCPX is useful on much more than just a Mac Pro. Productive professional work can be done with other computers in the Mac line up. That will sell more copies of FCPX since limiting FCPX primarily to sales of the Mac Pro grossly limits FCPX's Mac market share. It is a single platform application. Restricting it to a small fraction of that platform is not an insightful move.

It helps with the Mac Pro is useful for anyone observant to notice what where the Mac Pro has more traction in this context. For instance, one case study mentions a Red Rocket card. That card is pragmatically going to work in a Mac Pro ( or PC it doesn't necessarily matter to the case study). The ability to take PCI-e cards is the differentiators. That goes beyond the niche of just "video editing" , so the Mac Pro is more than just as video editing box. [ This is one of the primary flaws in Mac Pro marketing. The solution matrix it is shown in is limited versus the potential market it could be in. ]

Similarly, if FCPX can cost efficiently use the resources in a iMac (or MBP , MBA , etc) then it probably can efficiently use the resources in a Mac Pro to get the work done that much faster. If need faster, pay more and get more. There is really no upside in telling the customer they need to pay more for FCPX to work at all.

The FUD that you need a Mac Pro for FCPX to be useful ... is actually counterproductive to making FCPX as successful product. That's likely why it is being targeted.

 

[mBox]

Thanks TheSeb! As for the comments about what is shot on RED and I suppose the other hardware ecosystems as well, I don't think any less of a "small" production. In fact very small productions are enabled by the use of a purely digital work flow. The recent CMOS video pickups at very high resolutions allows traditional film making techniques to be used on low to moderate budget productions in all digital.

If it wasnt for RED, Sony and the likes would still be forcing 1440x1080 on us.

Apple lost focus in the market because it is not consumer, which is unfortunate because they were uniquely in a position to be in a first mover position on insanely great things in this space. I suppose the loss of their movie centric CEO was a factor.

FCPX was still in SJ watch. Maybe this new CEO has a different take on it. We will see by end of 2012.

I think it is notable Adobe Premiere was the first mover on Mac, has been steady in the race and is just as well positioned even with all the innovation that has occurred around them. Half the projects I have done were at some point in Premiere.

Its Adobe's core product. Now that the cat is out of the bag that Flash is crap (yes I have an opinion, I work with it), they now have to focus on it. Remember, they pulled Premiere from the Mac in the past.

I suppose I am a FCP7 bigot however. You can do family movies, commercials, TV shows, movies or, get this, entire broadcast TV channels with all the details going through the ecosystem. That's amazing!

Rocketman

Hey whatever works for you. I know folks with RED MX cameras and use it for shooting their dogs Does that make it a lesser tool?

----------

I think you are reading too much into what their marketing case studies are trying to outline. There is a significant amount of FUD out there that " you need a Mac Pro to make Final Cut Pro useful". Likewise there is also corollary to that FUD that "the Mac Pro is really only good for Final Cut Pro (and the Apple only "Pro" apps)".

Yep according to Autodesk, you only need an iMac to run Smoke Its all marketing folks just smokes and mirrors

 

[the read]

This comment makes no sense for multiple reasons.

How can it not make sense. The interface is clunky, out dated and basic features like supporting multiple file formats within one edit is not supported.

Apple editing software = fail.

This is a poor attempt to win back a market that apple openly turned their back on. Apple is now creating consumer software. Not for the professional.

 

[Rocketman]

I was fortunate enough to hear about RED pre-release of RED One. I see the company as one of those consumer funded projects. Almost a mash-up. So I am not surprised to hear about reliability issues and the need for backups by some folks in this thread. It's not a Sony. But as another poster reports it was a first mover in very high resolution video capture at industry standard frame rates at several resolutions. This is what caught my attention. It appears the folks who do work on higher budget productions felt it worthwhile to invest in considerable RED products to develop a newer lower cost, more flexible, more real-time work flow. Some of the objects in that flow have had growing pains and we have seen several upgrades and bug fixes in RED products, but because of the nature of the company and how the product was capitalized, by customer funded development, most of the warts have been very public.

What got my attention in particular was the very extra large resolution camera they no longer push on the website. They have uses in science and other high value uses.

The 4k and 5k stuff is almost commoner stuff with the digital work flow software available from about 5 vendors, the interface equipment for video, audio, monitor and direction feedback available at prices as low as $1000!

So you can buy a turn-key movie making system end to end now for about $75k. That's down from over $300k about 5 years ago. That's why most folks rent.

But the Cameron's of the world buying cameras 40 at a time is what capitalizes bleeding edge products like Red and Aja and others.

Based on the trends we see right now I would not be surprised to see 4K come all the way down to iPhone 6.

The capture and display of material is the easy part. The art is in the rest of the production. The editing, lighting, lenses, sets, acting, whatever. That will always be value added. Storytelling will always be the thing. The tools you use to get there will continue to get more accessable and easier to integrate. Good thing too. 500 channels and nothing to watch!



Rocketman

 

[mBox]

How can it not make sense. The interface is clunky, out dated and basic features like supporting multiple file formats within one edit is not supported.

Apple editing software = fail.

This is a poor attempt to win back a market that apple openly turned their back on. Apple is now creating consumer software. Not for the professional.

I think the original post was about FCP legacy. FCPX might have failed for you but its sure working for a lot of us

----------

I was fortunate enough to hear about RED pre-release of RED One. I see the company as one of those consumer funded projects. Almost a mash-up.

Im not sure if you can consider Jim Jannard owner and founder of both Oakley and RED a consumer funded entity

What got my attention in particular was the very extra large resolution camera they no longer push on the website. They have uses in science and other high value uses.

Which camera are you referring too? The MX?
We have one. Sure its dated but more advanced and well put together than our dusty XDCAMs here

The 4k and 5k stuff is almost commoner stuff with the digital work flow software available from about 5 vendors...

Well you can count FCPX as one that works with 4K but count all Avid software out.
Only Adobe and Final Cut (at my work) can actually deal with the full raster.
Avid MC for us has to go thru RCXPro > AMA before even going into Avid MC.

 

[adamfilip]

Nice software yet no hardware to run it on...

I Agree its been forever since Apple updated the mac pro.
but even when they do upgrade it won't be a huge improvement.
Intel hasn't released much recently.. going to a Dual 8 Core Xeon.
won't be much faster then he Dual 6 cores they have now

Im sure it will be 20-30% faster then they have now.. but thats not huge

the mac pro that is available now can handle it.

 

[mBox]

I Agree its been forever since Apple updated the mac pro.
but even when they do upgrade it won't be a huge improvement.
Intel hasn't released much recently.. going to a Dual 8 Core Xeon.
won't be much faster then he Dual 6 cores they have now

Im sure it will be 20-30% faster then they have now.. but thats not huge

the mac pro that is available now can handle it.

I dont undestand why this post got a negative? Its just a fact and an opinion. It really is only a small percentage faster than the previous core opions.
We have to beef up our 2.93 here with 32GB RAM, SSD and SAS/RAID plus Quadro cards just to make it feel like its that much faster than then 2009 offering

 

[Rocketman]

Oakley and RED a consumer funded entity

Which camera are you referring too? The MX?

It's a pleasure to occasionally have a smart conversation on this site . . . .

Yed Red was "well funded" which is why everything is "shiny". But I feel the product line was developed only as demand warranted which is smart for a small vertical market product. It also resulted in valuable user feedback for the 2nd and 3rd generation we are now seeing. Cool stuff.

Yes Mysterium MX. Bring it to a rocket test sometime. You're invited!

Rocketman

 

[mBox]

It's a pleasure to occasionally have a smart conversation on this site . . . .

Yed Red was "well funded" which is why everything is "shiny". But I feel the product line was developed only as demand warranted which is smart for a small vertical market product. It also resulted in valuable user feedback for the 2nd and 3rd generation we are now seeing. Cool stuff.

Yes Mysterium MX. Bring it to a rocket test sometime. You're invited!

Rocketman

I wasnt around the RED circle during its inception so I cant comment. If I was anywhere close to where you test launches, Id be there
We are content with the MX and dont feel its dated. Sure 50% of our work ends up in HD anyway but the promise of keeping everything in 4k is there just in case
Now im hearing a RED 4k projector. So again the future looks bright in RED

 

[knewsom]

The iMac is not pro gear. Nor the Mac Mini. The MacBook Pros are freat for the road but not for serious editing when you need the horsepower. Not to mention that with the iMac or MacBook Pro if the hard drive fails your screwed, video card or display as well. Not to mention the annoyance of a built in glossy monitor (though the MacBook Pro has a matte option)

The Mac Pro on ther other hand is expandable and has A LOT more horsepower. Hard drive goes bad? Swap it out. Video card? Swap it out. Display dies? Use another. Need internal RAID? Add a RAID card. Etc...

What I do wish the Mac Pro had was a redundant swappable power supply. I love the form factor, if anything Apple should go bigger (NOT smaller) to add more PCI-X slots and internal drive space.

Pro's could also used a revived XServe and Final Cut Server for asset management and workflow automation/transcoding.

Regardless of the intended use of iMacs, many pros have snapped them up and are using them - myself included. Glossy screen isn't an issue - if you're doing anything that really counts, you'll do it in a dark room. With TB, if your HD fails, you can use an external at speeds equal to the failed internal. If GFX or display fail, you can get another one easily, for not much more than a display by itself.

They're very powerful, and come with one of the best displays for the money around. I'm a Colorist, and I can actually trust mine (took me a few tries to get one without yellow blotching tho). I'm also an Editor, but color accuracy doesn't matter as much for that, though I manage to work extremely well on my machine. Better than the last few MPs I've worked on.

 

[mBox]

I'm a Colorist, and I can actually trust mine (took me a few tries to get one without yellow blotching tho). I'm also an Editor, but color accuracy doesn't matter as much for that, though I manage to work extremely well on my machine. Better than the last few MPs I've worked on.

Your one of the lucky and un-lucky (Mac Pro problems) ones that feel this way. I teach AE, Maya and FCPX at local college and only have to deal with AE and FCPX with iMacs. They are decent but no way in replacement of even the older 2008s we use for Maya at the college. At work for me its between Mac Pro's, MacBook Pros and BOXX PCs. The MPs outlast the others.

 

[iBug2]

It's not just about rendering. Editing on my MBP, which I have done on set or location, is noticeably slower than editing on a MacPro and that's working in ProRes LT 1080p. If I needed to work with ProRes 442 or a higher resolution the difference would be more pronounced. I can't stick a Kona card in a MBP.

Which I already said in my post. I was specifically talking about rendering times. Any PCI-E accelerated job will obviously run much faster on Mac Pro.

 

[Zwhaler]

Okay, we're ready for these updates as quickly as Apple can roll them out.

 

[Dranix]

and FCPX, there last piece of somewhat professional software,

What happened to LogicPro and Aperture?

 

[3282868]

What happened to LogicPro and Aperture?

They added Facebook to Aperture, cause, you know, professional photographers need to publish their clients' photographs on their Facebook profiles

(that's why we have iPhoto)