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I didn’t say it wasn’t a big deal. But you’re saying we didn’t know we wanted it. It’s why I took back my iPhone 3G and switch to palm webos with its better screen among other things like much better multitasking.

Of course the iPhone 4 came along.
Oh man, there was so much promise in the PalmOS. I was genuinely excited about it. Lots of UX features that eventually became standard in iOS and Android. I was really disappointed it never took off, I think PalmOS at the time was a much better competitor in fit and and finish than Android was at the time.
 
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No, it is not simply a VR set. Go watch the video (starts ~82 minutes in IIRC) with an open mind, then comment.
Ok I watched it. It’s a VR headset with the apple OS environment. I still don’t understand what I’m supposedly missing. I suppose if you have multiple “monitors” floating in front of you that could be helpful I guess.

I have a Quest 2 and already have a giant Netflix screen to watch movies on. People don’t want to wear tech on their face. 3D TV failed, google glass failed, VR has failed, and this will fail as well. It’s a dead product
 
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How well were smartphones taking off before the iPhone? Smart watches? How quickly people forget the beforetimes
Smartphones were absolutely massive. Blackberries ruled the world, everyone wanted one. The iPhone was an instant, undisputed, worldwide hit. Instant.

It wasn’t niche, it wasn’t just for tech nerds. It’s exploded the world and every person wanted one.

This VR set is the opposite. It’s weird uncanny valley-ish, shockingly expensive, and not good for much aside from “floating multiple monitor setup”
 
What's the "use case" for a MacBook? It would be ridiculous to try to define one. I see this as a general computing device, not a one-trick niche device like gaming or AR overlay.

It's not ridiculous. Customer archetypes are developed all the time. You could just look at markets. Gaming/entertainment across platforms has 2 billion users. Office productivity/computing has >half a billion users. Smartphones ~7 billion users.

There are less than 100 million people that use a vr device and most barely use them. I just don't see this as a particularly general-use device. Maybe the archetype is someone who takes a plane, catches some new disease, and then is locked down in a 400 sq ft apartment? Interior, no-window cruise customers? White collar prisoners? I mean, how would you use this generally?
 
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There are less than 100 million people that use a vr device and most barely use them. I just don't see this as a particularly general-use device. Maybe the archetype is someone who takes a plane, catches some new disease, and then is locked down in a 400 sq ft apartment? Interior, no-window cruise customers? White collar prisoners? I mean, how would you use this generally?
Maybe the reason why VR hasn't quite caught on is because the existing devices in the market aren't really all that good, and Apple's offering just might be the first product that doesn't suck to use.

I personally admit that I don't see myself using it for productivity all that much, and maybe initially for passive content consumption that does not require much interaction / input on my end. Once it becomes more socially acceptable to be seen with this in public, I can see more people using them in places like cafes, libraries and public transport.

If it's acceptable to be watching Netflix on your iPad while sipping your coffee at Starbucks, what's wrong with then doing so using a mixed reality headset? I am not really bothering anyone else, and there's better privacy because other people can't see what's on my screen. Same with browsing the web in the library (it could be a nice alternative to carting an external display for my laptop), or attending a zoom webinar while I am in the way home in the train (it's hands-free, meaning I don't need to use one hand to hold my phone up to my face, allowing me to have both hands free to say, hold on to the handrails in the carriage).

Likewise, I am no longer confined to interacting with AR content through a tiny smartphone display that I have to keep holding up (think Pokemon Go). My entire field of view is my playground.

The ability to basically have a 4k display whenever you go, without having to actually hold it up, will open up a lot of use-cases, IMO.
 
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Ok I watched it. It’s a VR headset with the apple OS environment. I still don’t understand what I’m supposedly missing. I suppose if you have multiple “monitors” floating in front of you that could be helpful I guess.

I have a Quest 2 and already have a giant Netflix screen to watch movies on. People don’t want to wear tech on their face. 3D TV failed, google glass failed, VR has failed, and this will fail as well. It’s a dead product
Are you just going to ignore all of the AR aspects of the VP which were the focus of almost every feature that Apple presented? In almost all of the scenes, the device was merging the outside world with the computer generated world.

In how many VR headsets can you see and start talking to someone who just walks up to you?
 
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Huh. THis is the most vague argument one can use. "Magic". Ok, I can try it, but doing what exactly? As I said, I see no application. I dont care if it's cool to navigate my OS apps menu with eyes - it can be razor sharp, crisp image with almsot no delay, but what exactly will I open these apps for? I want to actually do / accomplish something with this thing right? I truly see no application. "Magical experience" - but doing what exactly? Anything I could use it for (movies, work) will be inferior to alternatives.
The use cases would growth as more developers join the game and start making apps and the platform matures. Maybe once you have watched your first movie with Vision Pro, you will find that it is significantly cooler and more entertaining even compared to cinema theater experience, let alone home cinema. Probably you should re-watch the keynote as Apple showed a few very cool use cases. And obviously, there would be many more. What is happening to you (and many more) is what I call "lack of tech imagination". What I will be using the internet for? Why do I need a smartphone? Why do I need a TV? Many people asked these questions when these technologies were first released. I have to try it for myself, but considering the amount of tech Apple putted in this things, and their claims (which sounded very convincing), I'm optimistic that this thing could become a "must have" tool for many professionals, and very much wanted for entertainment in general. We'll see.
 
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What is happening to you (and many more) is what I call "lack of tech imagination". What I will be using the internet for? Why do I need a smartphone? Why do I need a TV? Many people asked these questions when these technologies were first released. We'll see.

I think this perspective is remarkably presumptuous. I suspect it describes nearly no one on the macrumors who are pretty speculative and imaginative on new use cases and new features. I mean this is a rumors forum with lots of opinion.

So I suspect there are many of us on here that want to or will buy it, but seeking a killer application that justifies even a $1000 spend.
 
Are you just going to ignore all of the AR aspects of the VP which were the focus of almost every feature that Apple presented? In almost all of the scenes, the device was merging the outside world with the computer generated world.

In how many VR headsets can you see and start talking to someone who just walks up to you?
Well no, I’m not ignoring it, but only cause I don’t see that as a valuable feature. Some could I guess, but to me it’s not a positive. Augmented reality is cool as a concept, but for things like you walk to your car and a pop up shows you the fuel left, when you need an oil change etc. And not wearing gigantic goggles with creepy uncanny valley eyes. It would have to be a contact lens or something. Which could be the future of this. But right now, as this product stands, I just don’t see it as viable.
 
Well no, I’m not ignoring it, but only cause I don’t see that as a valuable feature. Some could I guess, but to me it’s not a positive. Augmented reality is cool as a concept, but for things like you walk to your car and a pop up shows you the fuel left, when you need an oil change etc. And not wearing gigantic goggles with creepy uncanny valley eyes. It would have to be a contact lens or something. Which could be the future of this. But right now, as this product stands, I just don’t see it as viable.
You keep dinging the VP as being "just VR" so I thought maybe you were ignoring where it most definitely is not VR.

If you don't see it as viable, that's fine. Obviously not for you. There do seem to be quite a lot of people who do think that this is viable, especially as it evolves over the next couple of years. Come back then and see if you still feel the same.
 
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Smartphones were absolutely massive. Blackberries ruled the world, everyone wanted one. The iPhone was an instant, undisputed, worldwide hit. Instant.

It wasn’t niche, it wasn’t just for tech nerds. It’s exploded the world and every person wanted one.

This VR set is the opposite. It’s weird uncanny valley-ish, shockingly expensive, and not good for much aside from “floating multiple monitor setup”
Did you say the same thing about the watch? Most of the comments mirror the watch naysaying and now there are plenty of Apple Watch wearers
 
Did you say the same thing about the watch? Most of the comments mirror the watch naysaying and now there are plenty of Apple Watch wearers
No, the watch was cool. I tried one, it isn’t for me, I’m a Garmin guy. But the Apple Watch is a beautiful device. Same with AirPods, never had any negative thoughts about those. This VR set is something different. And not in a good way lol
 
Did you say the same thing about the watch? Most of the comments mirror the watch naysaying and now there are plenty of Apple Watch wearers

The Apple Watch was £369 though and was cheap enough for people not convinced by its benefits, to give it a try. Very few who are sceptical of a AR headset is going to pay £4k on a whim to give it a go IMO. The Apple Watch became very popular because it was cheap enough at the time of launch. I bought my first AW on a whim in 2017 after saying I didn’t need it and was a mechanical watch collector. I wouldn’t have tried it if it was £1k+ and I doubt it would be anywhere as popular as it is now if it were not priced competitively.
 
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As usual nobody realises what makes apple unique

The ecosystem.

Nobody else can and never could match it

That’s what’s going to make this eventually bigger than the iPhone …
Sony had an ecosystem too and it collapsed. Apple's ecosystem has only one leg, the iPhone. You take the iPhone out of the equation then everything collapses. There is very little synergy, say, between the iPad and the Apple Watch and the user base of the Mac is too small to replace the iPhone as the foundation of this vaunted ecosystem.

Nothing will be bigger than the iPhone for a while because an iPhone is something you can use all day and Vision Pro only has two hours of battery life. At $3.5K and most likely will get more expensive, (note that Apple never really drops the price on anything since the introduction of the original iMac) Vision Pro in its current form has no chance of becoming bigger than the iPhone.
 
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Sony had an ecosystem too and it collapsed. Apple's ecosystem has only one leg, the iPhone. You take the iPhone out of the equation then everything collapses. There is very little synergy, say, between the iPad and the Apple Watch and the user base of the Mac is too small to replace the iPhone as the foundation of this vaunted ecosystem.

Nothing will be bigger than the iPhone for a while because an iPhone is something you can use all day and Vision Pro only has two hours of battery life. At $3.5K and most likely will get more expensive, (note that Apple never really drops the price on anything since the introduction of the original iMac) Vision Pro in its current form has no chance of becoming bigger than the iPhone.
I would look beyond the iPhone.

One criticism I have seen of the Vision Pro is that it's a chicken and egg game with content (you need creators and developers, who in turn may be hesitant to support an unproven platform). That's where Apple comes in. For example, if it's spatial video content that is lacking, Apple can easily spend a few extra million dollars to ensure that their TV+ content is filmed that way so that there's something for viewers on day 1. They have a sports channel now with MLS, and they could also invest in ensuring that matches are streamed in a manner that makes for immersive viewing on the vision pro. For concerts, bankroll a couple of live performances and livestream it that way as well through Apple Music (a New Jeans collaboration would be awesome). As for games, there's Apple Arcade. Sure, it's not the AAA gaming library that Sony or Nintendo enjoys, but it's something. For people crazy enough to try and exercise with the headset on, how convenient that Apple has a library of fitness instructional videos as well.

Find my and turn-by-turn look like they would work great with a headset vs a phone you need to keep holding in your hand (once people are comfortable enough to be seen outdoors with it). I suspect AR games will be great fun. Buying things online with Apple Pay for the web, and quickly signing in to websites via Sign in with Apple.

I won't be surprised if we look back one day and realise that Apple's reason for pushing into services was to build up a formidable library of content that can one day power the Vision Pro (recall how many people derided it as a distraction back then). This also let them stand out from other VR headsets who are reliant on third parties to supply the content.
 
Maybe the reason why VR hasn't quite caught on is because the existing devices in the market aren't really all that good, and Apple's offering just might be the first product that doesn't suck to use.

I personally admit that I don't see myself using it for productivity all that much, and maybe initially for passive content consumption that does not require much interaction / input on my end. Once it becomes more socially acceptable to be seen with this in public, I can see more people using them in places like cafes, libraries and public transport.

If it's acceptable to be watching Netflix on your iPad while sipping your coffee at Starbucks, what's wrong with then doing so using a mixed reality headset? I am not really bothering anyone else, and there's better privacy because other people can't see what's on my screen. Same with browsing the web in the library (it could be a nice alternative to carting an external display for my laptop), or attending a zoom webinar while I am in the way home in the train (it's hands-free, meaning I don't need to use one hand to hold my phone up to my face, allowing me to have both hands free to say, hold on to the handrails in the carriage).

Likewise, I am no longer confined to interacting with AR content through a tiny smartphone display that I have to keep holding up (think Pokemon Go). My entire field of view is my playground.

The ability to basically have a 4k display whenever you go, without having to actually hold it up, will open up a lot of use-cases, IMO.

You might be able to call up a screen. But you still need a mac with it. Along with a kb and mouse. Otherwise it’s all iPad apps and limited input options. You’re not gonna type well on a virtual kb.
 
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Did you say the same thing about the watch? Most of the comments mirror the watch naysaying and now there are plenty of Apple Watch wearers

How did the App Store work out on the watch? Apple had to pivot to health and sports. It’s mostly a first party experience.

Vision pro essentially needs an App Store to thrive and apple needs it as well to justify it.

A watch needs an iPhone. This vision pro needs AirPods, iPhone for cellular if needed, a mac, a kb, a mouse. Otherwise all you’re going to be able to do is watch a few movies or play iOS apps.

Vision pro inputs are hand movements, eyes, and voice(Siri? lol). That’s very limiting. How many inadvertent hand movements you going to make while using any Bluetooth input devices?
 
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This is basically the first real product under Tim Cook's management. Let's see how it goes. For now, it looks like a follower of Meta's trend (rather than being a leader) and expensive (albeit high-quality). Feels like Tim Cook. Now we should see how it pertorms.
 
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As usual nobody realises what makes apple unique

The ecosystem.

Nobody else can and never could match it

That’s what’s going to make this eventually bigger than the iPhone …
First, it needs to get a lot cheaper. If you want a whole ecosystem, you need a lot of users to make it economically viable. And you only get a lot of users if the product is affordable. How many billion Apple Vision Pro devices will Apple sell at $3.5k?
 
I think this perspective is remarkably presumptuous. I suspect it describes nearly no one on the macrumors who are pretty speculative and imaginative on new use cases and new features. I mean this is a rumors forum with lots of opinion.

So I suspect there are many of us on here that want to or will buy it, but seeking a killer application that justifies even a $1000 spend.
In the 70's we imagined that by 2020, we will be traveling with flying cars, speaking with holograms of people like in Star Wars and having a permanent base on the moon. None of these things became reality (still), and yet we created some other technologies that nobody could have imagined back in 70's. We'll see in what direction Vision Pro will finally go. It may end up being used more for entertainment, than for productivity, or the other way around. It will either start a new era in how we use computers (in which case even 3,500$ sounds as a bargain), or will it follow the path of the 3D TVs. It is difficult to say at the moment. The next 18-24 months would be crucial. Vision Pro will either fly or dip down. What I know for sure is that it is very powerful technology. 3,500$ is a lot of money for a device that could make a few cool tricks, and that's all, but it is nothing for device that delivers next-level entertainment and productivity.
 
Indeed. Apparently Apple sells more watches than all the Swiss watchmakers totaled.

The Apple Watch is a cheap mass market product, most Swiss watches aren’t and never have been. Casio and Citizen used to sell more than the Swiss watch makers as like the Apple Watch, they had watches at price points from the very cheap to £1k+. It’s a pretty weak comparison and one I have seen many tech enthusiasts across forums make in recent years.
 
Indeed. Apparently Apple sells more watches than all the Swiss watchmakers totaled.
Probably more than all the LUXURY brands, so lets say over $200, but if one considers ”all the Swiss” watchmakers, one has to include the Swatch Group, founded by Nicolas Hayek and including that group which pretty much saved Swiss watchmaking in the 1980’s, they probably still sell more than apple does with apple watches. Sadly, nobody and certainly not apple give us much data to create this comparison.
 
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