Microsoft should buy Tesla. Now that would be the ultimate Tech merger. Tesla could switch their OS to Windows 10 and get more awesome updates more often. I bet everyone would agree this would be a Tech match made in heaven. Just imagine the ultimate cars that would come out after that!
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Apple Said to Have Made 'Serious Bid' of ~$240 Per Share to Acquire Tesla Around 2013
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After reading posts about Tesla being on shaky financial ground I read a few articles today. Their stock has dropped significantly recently and it may drop even more. Elon himself has said that Tesla is going through a difficult period right now.
I guess that if you think Tesla will rebound then now is the time to buy stock. A $40,000.00 car, which is what the average cost of a model 3 was a few months ago, might not be truly profitable for a company yet and maybe Tesla is in serious trouble. Or maybe not. So much of the stock market seems to be based upon bad information and who’s considered hot right now, not how good a product and how big is the market for that product.
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Yeah, you’re driving in a crowded urban area and Microsoft picks that moment to update your OS, just like Windows picked 10:00 AM a couple of days ago to update our companies computers, because no business really needs a computer mid-morning.
Cool user name though. I have very fond memories of my Amiga 1000 and 3000.
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i've been following Tesla for a while and have seen headlines dating back to 2015 saying "watch out Tesla, (blank) is coming". so far we haven't seen any competitors that would pressure Tesla. it isn't as simple as sticking a battery into a car and deleting the engine. so whatever gas car "professionals" that are coming doesn't sound like they're professionals at all in the EV space and probably need to relearn how to build a car from scratch.
Thanks! I'll be here enjoying my Model 3 along with the rest of us crazy ones. You know, the misfits. The square pegs in the round holes. The ones changing the world. Betting against Elon is a lot like betting against Steve Jobs. In fact, Tesla rakes in hundreds of millions of dollars from Chrysler. How? They're geniuses.
Enjoy your fossil burning spewing Kia or whatever floats your boat.
A lot of people are posting about how when the real auto makers start making electric cars Tesla will be seen as the fraud it is. This review is from MotorTrend, is dated May 22nd, and compares a BMW 330I, a Genesis G70, the car MotorTrend had already awarded as its Car of the Year, and a Tesla Model 3. Admittedly, only the Tesla is electric.
MotorTrend Article
//Edit, I still couldn't afford any of these, but Tesla evidently is doing something right, even if it's not making a profit right now.
MotorTrend Article
//Edit, I still couldn't afford any of these, but Tesla evidently is doing something right, even if it's not making a profit right now.
Why do you say that? Tesla is his baby and still has potential. It is obvious by now that there is so much negativity around tesla.
I suspect Tesla leaked this rumor out in an attempt to save some of their slipping stock value. If Tesla gets sold I think it’s far more likely another automaker will be at least one of the buyers. Building a car is not like building a computer or phone and visa versa, Tesla has made this abundantly clear (though let’s be honest they have paid through the nose avoiding common sense car manufacturing philosophy and have nothing to show for it- had Musk listened to industry experts and built the M3 like a Toyota they’d likely be in a better position).
Oh please. The overwhelming criticism of Tesla/Musk have little to do with opposing EV’s or even Musks vision of the future. It has to do with Musk’s poor business practices, deceptive business practices/questionable business ethics, unrealistic time frames, lack of consistency/focus, ignorance of legitimate concerns buyers have of EVs, etc and yet the most significant is and has been Tesla’s precarious financial situation (that goes back years).
I’d argue however that Musk and Jobs are not the same at all. They’re both geniuses in their own way. I see Jobs was more of a visionary with more novel ideas and was lead by an obsession for perfection. Musk seems to take old ideas that seem out of reach and making them seem more reasonable and mainstream- I’d say he’s more of a marketing genius. Musk didn’t invent online payments, electric vehicles, or vertically landing rockets (one of my pet peeves, VTVL was invented in the 1960’s). And let’s not forget that Musk actually bought Tesla in its infancy, calling him a co-founder is revisionist history- not to diminish the success Tesla has had under Musk that probably otherwise wouldn’t have happened.
Personally, I’m not betting against Elon Musk’s vision or generally his marketing acumen, I’m betting against his extremely poor business decisions. He’s proven himself an unreliable and deceptive source of information (well beyond $420 secured) and I wouldn’t risk spending my money investing in TSLA or buying one of their cars anytime soon. Teslas guidance was lightyears off last Q and they provided 0 warning as you’d expect. Musk claims at one point in 2018 they were “weeks” away from collapse but yet at the time Tesla gave every indication this was not the case. If Tesla ends up being essentially the next Enron (which I’m not saying is the case but could be given how Tesla operates), the writing will have been all over the walls.
All that said, Tesla is not a worthless company as some claim it to be. Worst case scenario Tesla gets sold or becomes a supplier to other manufacturers and possibly retains a high end niche market of auto manufacturing.
Oh please. The overwhelming criticism of Tesla/Musk have little to do with opposing EV’s or even Musks vision of the future. It has to do with Musk’s poor business practices, deceptive business practices/questionable business ethics, unrealistic time frames, lack of consistency/focus, ignorance of legitimate concerns buyers have of EVs, etc and yet the most significant is and has been Tesla’s precarious financial situation (that goes back years).
I’d argue however that Musk and Jobs are not the same at all. They’re both geniuses in their own way. I see Jobs was more of a visionary with more novel ideas and was lead by an obsession for perfection. Musk seems to take old ideas that seem out of reach and making them seem more reasonable and mainstream- I’d say he’s more of a marketing genius. Musk didn’t invent online payments, electric vehicles, or vertically landing rockets (one of my pet peeves, VTVL was invented in the 1960’s). And let’s not forget that Musk actually bought Tesla in its infancy, calling him a co-founder is revisionist history- not to diminish the success Tesla has had under Musk that probably otherwise wouldn’t have happened.
Personally, I’m not betting against Elon Musk’s vision or generally his marketing acumen, I’m betting against his extremely poor business decisions. He’s proven himself an unreliable and deceptive source of information (well beyond $420 secured) and I wouldn’t risk spending my money investing in TSLA or buying one of their cars anytime soon. Teslas guidance was lightyears off last Q and they provided 0 warning as you’d expect. Musk claims at one point in 2018 they were “weeks” away from collapse but yet at the time Tesla gave every indication this was not the case. If Tesla ends up being essentially the next Enron (which I’m not saying is the case but could be given how Tesla operates), the writing will have been all over the walls.
All that said, Tesla is not a worthless company as some claim it to be. Worst case scenario Tesla gets sold or becomes a supplier to other manufacturers and possibly retains a high end niche market of auto manufacturing.
I think the “Tesla acquisition by another automaker” has sailed. Every other automaker with the cash to make that acquisition has been able to come out with mainstream electric vehicles within the last few years - GM, VW, Nissan/Renault... Maybe even FCA. I think we’re missing serious electric entries from Ford and maybe PSA, but they’re struggling.
By now Apple must have stuffed a zillion dollars into their electric car project and they would not spend the $50B to buy Tesla. No other company has the cash to make this happen. Those that do (Microsoft?) are not crazy enough to dive head-first into a business they know nothing about by acquiring a company we know is going through financial difficulties.
Actually I don’t think any company has the cash, balls, or even the stupidity required to buy Tesla right now. They’re burning through cash like there’s no tomorrow, Elon Musk’s every step is followed closely by the SEC and every word he says can destroy value in less than a second.
I’d buy Tesla, or a part of it, if I were one of these Private Equity Venture Capital Investment Companies LLCP Inc., drop Elon Musk like it’s hot, and turn it around for a profit. And even then it would be an insanely high risk.
By now Apple must have stuffed a zillion dollars into their electric car project and they would not spend the $50B to buy Tesla. No other company has the cash to make this happen. Those that do (Microsoft?) are not crazy enough to dive head-first into a business they know nothing about by acquiring a company we know is going through financial difficulties.
Actually I don’t think any company has the cash, balls, or even the stupidity required to buy Tesla right now. They’re burning through cash like there’s no tomorrow, Elon Musk’s every step is followed closely by the SEC and every word he says can destroy value in less than a second.
I’d buy Tesla, or a part of it, if I were one of these Private Equity Venture Capital Investment Companies LLCP Inc., drop Elon Musk like it’s hot, and turn it around for a profit. And even then it would be an insanely high risk.
Two points-
1) It’s my understanding the Tesla FSD is having problems handling situations advertised as part of its functionality (ie navigating off ramps). Tesla has touted their program as being safer than a regular human driving (as both can make mistakes). Apparently this isn’t the case, with FSD being less safe than no autopilot.
2) If too many people are using the system in ways it’s not intended, isn’t that a problem in itself. Why hasn’t Tesla utilized systems like other automakers to ensure their drivers are attentive with their eyes on the road? Your response is similar to “guns aren’t the problem, people are”.
I think it’s obvious that if the driver has to correct the AP more than it’s helping, then there’s a problem.
I suppose we’ve been “lucky” that all of these high profile accidents have only killed the drivers/passengers of the Teslas. If and when a family with small children in a minivan is killed as a result of an incorrect judgement based on a Tesla’s AP it won’t be pretty.
Tesla has intentionally positioned themselves the leader in the self-driving arena, which is a double edged sword. On one side they can promote their technological superiority. On the other, they face the full PR consequences for any future problems. Musk has pushed autopilot aggressively, taking risks other manufacturers have not, and such haste may have negative consequences he and the company will have to pay for- from bad press to greater regulatory hurdles.
Tesla today also made the FSD upgrade cost post-purchase $6000 (now the same as buying it as an option when new) down from $8000... this comes weeks after Musk implying it would be an increasingly more expensive as a post purchase upgrade. I question if this is a reaction to the Consumer Reports article or indicative of their general financial situation.
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Clever. I don’t own any Tesla shares. Your turn.
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Consumer Reports, for one thing, is a bit of a joke when it comes to a lot of their reports. Personally I have never taken them seriously when it comes to anything.
Second, while not a fan of Tesla’s ever-changing pricing, this price change just simplifies the buying process so that prospective owners don’t have to kvetch over whether they buy FSD now or later.
Third, FSD is not perfect right now. Tesla doesn’t claim it to be either, which is partly why each time you enable it they ask you to keep your hands on the wheel. For me, it’s been *mostly* fantastic. Yesterday I drove home from Redmond to Seattle barely having to do anything, using FSD. It’s incredible when it works. For particularly tricky interchanges in general I take over because the car isn’t as aggressive as a human at zipping lanes. Eventually this will be less of a problem.
But as I said earlier, the Model 3 is by far the best car I’ve ever driven. I own no shares in Tesla, I’m a car and technology enthusiast, and I can’t wait to wake up in the morning so I can drive it again.
PS Guns are the problem.
PPS https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tes...3-vs-bmw-330i-vs-genesis-g70-comparison-test/
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I think you are missing the point. Nobody is saying an automaker will buy Tesla at $200 a share. People are talking about when they go into Chapter 11 and they can pick up the name for about $10 a share or less.
So it hasn't sailed.......the opportunity hasn't arrived just yet.
Same as Aston Martin. They are the most unsuccessful car manufacturer EVER. They have gone bust 7 times in 100 years, but everyone knows and loves the brand. When Tesla goes bust nobody will realise or care because it will be just shareholders and banks that lose cash. With no debt I think Tesla could be wonderfully successful.
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I’d argue Consumer Reports is one of the more respected reviewers, especially when it comes to things like safety given unlike most, they actually buy all the cars they test to minimize any conflicts of interest. It’s only “a joke” for people who can’t accept legitimate criticism or understand metrics. Elon has long respected their opinions even when much of the Tesla fan base has not.
Not to group you in with the Teslasphere, but they don’t have a problem with CR when they recommend their cars, but when a negative report is written it’s all FUD, big oil, conspiracy, etc etc etc. Which is rather silly coming from a non-profit consumer advocacy group like CR. It’s hard for me to take seriously many of these reportedly “green” or “EV” car sites that basically trash every EV sans Tesla or prospect of an evm
I would argue their reports tend to take a more practical and value based in what they determine to be favorable compared to other reviewers. As a PharmD when they review medications it’s rather silly... but that’s largely because they’re trying to attribute a value to things that are very patient specific and usually dictated by insurance as it is.
I’m not sure Tesla’s price and ordering changes over the past several months has done anything to simplify the buying process in the slightest. It looks to me like trial and error and a lack of business plan they can stick to. Moving the price up and down 10 times, closing stores, un-closing stores, etc, doesn’t exactly inspire confidence.
I understand FSD is not intended to be 100% reliable as my previous post I think made very clear. There’s been a long recognized psychological phenomena with automation where people trust it too much and will find other things to distract themselves with. You could have both hands on the wheel but if you’re not attentive, you very well might not make that necessary intervention.
Considering Tesla’s system is not anywhere close to being fully autonomous, I’d argue “Full self driving” is not an appropriate name. I’d also argue their way of sending driver attentiveness is insufficient. The Model 3 has a camera in the mirror, I’m not sure why they haven’t utilized this for driver attentiveness like numerous other companies from BMW and Cadillac to Subaru. I haven’t used FSD, but I have read a lot of reports of the latest update being very problematic, including allegedly causing accidents.
I completely understand why people love their Tesla’s. Some of my favorite cars would be considered not ideal cars when it comes to things like practicality, cost of ownership, etc. I understand irrational love. Personally Tesla’s not my cup of tea and I don’t trust the company enough to shell out $50-60k+ with them (that’s how much I’d spend on an ICE car) and I do not find Teslas at this point to be practical for my needs.
All that said, affection for a car or company does not necessarily mean the company is immune from financial and economic realities. And there’s plenty of reason to have concern with the fundamentals of Tesla.
Consumer Reports, for one thing, is a bit of a joke when it comes to a lot of their reports. Personally I have never taken them seriously when it comes to anything.
Second, while not a fan of Tesla’s ever-changing pricing, this price change just simplifies the buying process so that prospective owners don’t have to kvetch over whether they buy FSD now or later.
Third, FSD is not perfect right now. Tesla doesn’t claim it to be either, which is partly why each time you enable it they ask you to keep your hands on the wheel. For me, it’s been *mostly* fantastic. Yesterday I drove home from Redmond to Seattle barely having to do anything, using FSD. It’s incredible when it works. For particularly tricky interchanges in general I take over because the car isn’t as aggressive as a human at zipping lanes. Eventually this will be less of a problem.
But as I said earlier, the Model 3 is by far the best car I’ve ever driven. I own no shares in Tesla, I’m a car and technology enthusiast, and I can’t wait to wake up in the morning so I can drive it again.
PS, guns are the problem.
I’d argue Consumer Reports is one of the more respected reviewers, especially when it comes to things like safety given unlike most, they actually buy all the cars they test to minimize any conflicts of interest. It’s only “a joke” for people who can’t accept legitimate criticism or understand metrics. Elon has long respected their opinions even when much of the Tesla fan base has not.
Not to group you in with the Teslasphere, but they don’t have a problem with CR when they recommend their cars, but when a negative report is written it’s all FUD, big oil, conspiracy, etc etc etc. Which is rather silly coming from a non-profit consumer advocacy group like CR. It’s hard for me to take seriously many of these reportedly “green” or “EV” car sites that basically trash every EV sans Tesla or prospect of an evm
I would argue their reports tend to take a more practical and value based in what they determine to be favorable compared to other reviewers. As a PharmD when they review medications it’s rather silly... but that’s largely because they’re trying to attribute a value to things that are very patient specific and usually dictated by insurance as it is.
I’m not sure Tesla’s price and ordering changes over the past several months has done anything to simplify the buying process in the slightest. It looks to me like trial and error and a lack of business plan they can stick to. Moving the price up and down 10 times, closing stores, un-closing stores, etc, doesn’t exactly inspire confidence.
I understand FSD is not intended to be 100% reliable as my previous post I think made very clear. There’s been a long recognized psychological phenomena with automation where people trust it too much and will find other things to distract themselves with. You could have both hands on the wheel but if you’re not attentive, you very well might not make that necessary intervention.
Considering Tesla’s system is not anywhere close to being fully autonomous, I’d argue “Full self driving” is not an appropriate name. I’d also argue their way of sending driver attentiveness is insufficient. The Model 3 has a camera in the mirror, I’m not sure why they haven’t utilized this for driver attentiveness like numerous other companies from BMW and Cadillac to Subaru. I haven’t used FSD, but I have read a lot of reports of the latest update being very problematic, including allegedly causing accidents.
I completely understand why people love their Tesla’s. Some of my favorite cars would be considered not ideal cars when it comes to things like practicality, cost of ownership, etc. I understand irrational love. Personally Tesla’s not my cup of tea and I don’t trust the company enough to shell out $50-60k+ with them (that’s how much I’d spend on an ICE car) and I do not find Teslas at this point to be practical for my needs.
All that said, affection for a car or company does not necessarily mean the company is immune from financial and economic realities. And there’s plenty of reason to have concern with the fundamentals of Tesla.
Tesla will survive one way or another. I’m not concerned there. And we don’t know how close Tesla is to FSD, since their implementation is very different to what the car is currently doing. We’ll see. CR being a bit of a joke is nothing new. It’s not like they speak for all consumers. May as well be called, “Couple of guys bought car and didn’t like it.” Opinions are just that.
Also regarding the CR drubbing, this is interesting:
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-navigate-on-autopilot-consumer-reports-review-clarified/
That's why Elon is changing the world with SpaceX, Solar City and Tesla. A true American hero.
The people who are crazy enough to try and change the world don’t always automatically succeed.
It just means they tried.
Elon musk is nothing like Steve Jobs. Even so, Steve Jobs had an amazing support team to help him run Apple. Elon seems to be missing his Tim Cook and Jony Ive. It’s hard to look at Tesla and not see a slow-motion train wreck. I mean, their options have pretty much reached junk bond status!
I don’t think they’re going to disappear either. They have too much brand recognition and brand value (right now anyways), not to mention a good foothold on charging, battery, and autonomous technology. So I don’t think they’ll be worth $0 or $10 as some have recently floated. The amount of debt they have however tied up in junk bonds should be seen as concerning.
I read the original article and understand the context. How I see it is that Tesla has put out options that are probably not ready for mainstream use and is unsafe for use. That said, there have been unsettling reports of problems with AP’s most recent updates ie autobraking unnecessarily and taking offramps. Tesla being the leader in this field gets the benefit of free attention, both positive and negative. Especially considering Tesla is recognized by experts of pushing the envelope of what’s safely possible.
I have trouble believing Tesla can handle Full Autonomy if they can’t handle partial. Tesla hasn’t provided any hard data on their capabilities as far as I’ve seen based on real world data.
I imagine you’re alluding to when Tesla fans were appalled when consumer reports didn’t recommend the Model 3 due to dependability issues when it had the highest ranking in customer satisfaction. Those are two entirely different categories with an entire algorithm of how recommendations are made or not made. I’m sure 99% of buyers love their Ferrari’s, it doesn’t mean it’s a good car to buy from a dependability standpoint.
The people who are crazy enough to try and change the world don’t always automatically succeed.
It just means they tried.
Elon musk is nothing like Steve Jobs. Even so, Steve Jobs had an amazing support team to help him run Apple. Elon seems to be missing his Tim Cook and Jony Ive. It’s hard to look at Tesla and not see a slow-motion train wreck. I mean, their options have pretty much reached junk bond status!
Elon's bet quality is that he doesn't have a Tim Cook. I understand. Haters gonna hate. It's ok, feed your horse some more hay.
The people who are crazy enough to try and change the world don’t always automatically succeed.
It just means they tried.
Elon musk is nothing like Steve Jobs. Even so, Steve Jobs had an amazing support team to help him run Apple. Elon seems to be missing his Tim Cook and Jony Ive. It’s hard to look at Tesla and not see a slow-motion train wreck. I mean, their options have pretty much reached junk bond status!
They have this Franz-guy who designs the cars.
Does a decent enough job of it, IMO.
I mean, there's the ideal shape of a car (tear-drop) and you can only do so much before you've ruined the aerodynamics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumpler_Tropfenwagen
The people who are crazy enough to try and change the world don’t always automatically succeed.
It just means they tried.
Elon musk is nothing like Steve Jobs. Even so, Steve Jobs had an amazing support team to help him run Apple. Elon seems to be missing his Tim Cook and Jony Ive. It’s hard to look at Tesla and not see a slow-motion train wreck. I mean, their options have pretty much reached junk bond status!
I really recommend you go drive one. I recommended someone on the message boards who didn’t see the big deal about the Model 3 to go test-drive one. He admitted he bought it 45 minutes later.
I’ve never been more excited to wake up in the morning or go home at night because of looking forward to driving my Model 3 Performance.
You miss the point.
The issue isn’t whether the Tesla is a good car or not.
The problem here is that while Elon Musk has all these grand visions of where he wants to take take Tesla, he seems to have no concrete plans on how to actually get there.
He has also been making a ton of questionable business decisions of late as well. For example, he initially wanted to close the bulk of his Tesla stores and move sales online. He then reversed that decision later.
The reality is that the vast majority of people just don’t buy their cars online, and I doubt Tesla will be able to move the needle on their own. Tesla also likely realised that they would have to continue paying the lease on their stores for the next few years either way.
I doubt he (or his company) actually ran through different scenarios or contemplated the various possible risks before making such a decision. It’s a classic example of Elon Musk deciding to do something and then just going ahead with his gut without actually consulting anyone, and I believe this is what will ultimately tank his company (or see him being ousted before that happens).
It’s not wrong to want to buck the trend and throw aside legacy thinking, but having huge aspirational goals for where you want the company to be 5 or 10 years in future isn’t going to help you actually sell those vehicles. You still need to have a concrete plan on what to do.
I am of the opinion that the Tesla story is flawed. All signs I am seeing point to there simply not being as much demand for Tesla vehicles as we were initially led to believe. That’s why they cut prices. Tesla has pretty much sold their cars to every enthusiastic early adopter they could find, and the problem now is that they are running out of people to market their product to.
What would make more sense (and what I suspect Apple is ultimately working towards) is a fleet of self-driving cars available on subscription. Tesla is trying to do too much on its own, and the result is a growing number of issues and problems.
The best product in the world is moot if your company is grossly mismanaged.
It’s hard to argue Musk’s continual missteps. I think they’re trying to fix those mistakes bit by bit. But I say Tesla never goes under. Possibly bought (though I don’t see that either currently), but they are far too valuable in my opinion, and are at the forefront of American innovation and ingenuity. If I had some spare cash lying around I’d be snapping up Tesla shares.
The car is fine how the company is run isn’t. Happy you like your car. Good luck with service when Tesla goes bankrupt.