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I made a "serious bid" today, grabbing some TSLA stock. It's a bargain at this price! Anyone who's driven a Tesla knows that.
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Elon Musk is certainly a polarizing figure, but I have to give him credits where it's due. He's a fantastic engineer with a tenacity to start and realize his lofty visions. Starting a car company, let alone an electric one, is a near impossible feat. What he was able to accomplish with Tesla is a staggering achievement.

But I don't think he's the right leader when a company as big as Tesla enters the stage it is in right now. As polarizing figure as Steve Jobs was, he knew how to play the press and investors. Elon is the polar opposite -- he and the press (and investors) just don't seem to get along.


Everyone would be better off if Elon Musk headed up Apple along with Scott Forstall.
 
Musk: Makes billions being a great businessman

He doesn't do very well for anybody else though. Bought any TSLA lately?
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"Apple buying Tesla" would necessitate "buying out Musk." No fit required.
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If Tesla is losing money, how would Musk be making billions? Those concepts are mutually contradictory-- unless he is stealing Tesla money to line his own pockets (which I don't believe he is).
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Everyone would be better off if Tim Cook replaced Elon Musk. What Tesla could use more than anything right now is a level-headed businessman, not a sociopath such as Musk is.
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It closed at 205, and is at 201 after hours. But last week it was at 230, so that's a pretty big drop. So much for that "rebound".

It doesn't help that Musk borrowed against his shares and has a huge margin call coming.
 
Wow, Apple's bringing the old team back together. First Bob Mansfield and now Doug Field.

It shows some odd weaknesses in their HR process. The guys that replaced Bob & Doug should have been better.
 
Did you just pulled that out of your butt? Plenty of Model 3's do racing, battery tech is changing by the months, not decades, like ICE.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-mod...se-version-beats-ferrari-closed-circuit-test/

https://electrek.co/2019/04/09/tesla-model-3-performance-nurburgring-race-track/
admittedly, my info was not as recent as yours. The articles that I've read were from 2016. Like this one from car and driver.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15100055/tesla-model-s-p85d-at-lightning-lap-2016-feature/

Pretty impressive that Tesla has addressed their lack of lap times and track performance.

I stand corrected.
 
ICE cars need to disappear. Turn all fuel stations into charging stations.
I agree that we'd all be better off going to electric cars, but the one drawback - and it lands particularly hard on your comment - is that they can't be charged as fast as a gas-powered card can be refueled. You can be in and out of a gas station in 5 minutes. You can't (last I looked) put any useful amount of electricity into an electric vehicle in 5 minutes. Turning fuel stations into charging stations wouldn't work - if you pull in and have to spend half an hour, or an hour or two, sitting there, it's wasted time. Charging stations need to be somewhere that you were going to be anyway for a long time - home or work, for instance. So, yeah, go electric, push society towards electric, but simply switching gas stations to charging stations, at those same locations, seems foolish.
 
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Thankfully they didn't get it and avoided the Tesla Trainwreck on autopilot.

Trainwreck because when people not using it as intended (and as instructed) get themselves into trouble, you mean?

I just got my Model 3 Performance a couple of weeks ago. Best car I’ve ever owned by a country mile. It’s ruined everything else for me.

But please, do continue.
 
You need to drive some other cars, lol.
drove plenty.
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Tesla’s problem is not performance; it’s the horrible build quality and cheap materials. You can compare panels on the same car and the gaps will be off almost 1/4”. Leather stitching is uneven, interior plastic looks cheap, and the paint has the worse orange peel I’ve ever seen on a production car. Looks like a Maaco paint job.

Some people don’t notice or care about those things, but they’re there.

i haven't experienced any quality issues. the paint is less durable since Tesla uses a special kind that California that emits lower VOCs.

i'm sure a 15 year old Tesla wouldn't match the quality of some 100 year old car companies, but i think that issue is overblown.

personally, i'd take a plastic interior with a single touch screen over an interior with hundreds of buttons any day. but that's just me.

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I don’t drive 120 mph either, as it’s just unsafe and against the law. My point was, that EV vehicles can only distribute so much power in short bursts before needing a recharge.

I drove from LA to Vegas at 90mph non-stop for about 3 hours straight. how "short" are you talking about? this sounds like an issue that not a single normal Tesla customer has ever experienced.
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I think it's very fortunate that Tesla was not bought by Apple. The analysts here simply don't get the real strengths of Tesla and what the goals and the big vision of the company actually is in terms of autonomous driving. If it's true that Apple is pursuing LIDAR like everyone else, then they would have derailed Tesla's innovative sensor suite and software/hardware cycle that is now years ahead of the rest of the pack.

and this story and particularly the video in it aged fast, Tesla stock has already rebounded today to 208. So much for the sky is falling scenario.

it's not certain as to what Apple is using LIDAR for. we've seen Apple employees wearing LIDAR backpacks while walking on the streets of San Francisco. my guess is, LIDAR is for a Maps 2.0 service that would leapfrog google maps, and not really used as a main sensor for full self driving vehicles.
 
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I have zero interest in an Apple Car. Apples anti-consumer practices under Tim Cook have me looking for the door as it is.
 
Do ittttttt. Apple can afford to mess something up. Buy Tesla and let apple CFO straighten everything up. Tesla autopilot married to CarPlay = apple car.
You don't get it do you? All cars have to be insured right? That means there's an insurance company. An insurance company makes money via dumb humans causing accidents. If self driving cars took off and were 100% safe, how would the insurance company make money?
 
Thankfully they didn't get it and avoided the Tesla Trainwreck on autopilot.

To be fair - if Apple had been running the show for the last 6 years then Tesla would maybe not be in the mess they are now.

Polestar, Volvo, Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW, Porsche and everyone else is now coming for them. I wouldn't touch a Tesla due to the build quality and overpricing.
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Considering the instant torque and the smooth ride from an EV blows out any gas car I've ever driven, what other EV car would you suggest?
I've driven the Model S. Performance is better but I don't like the Model S due to the interior looking extremely dated. Would gladly choose a Model 3 over the S.

Tesla have had their time in the spotlight. Now the professionals are coming.

Tesla have been like the budget airlines......they have led the market. But I don't actually want to fly with Easyjet and I don't want to drive a Tesla, but I do still benefit from the efforts they have made to push things ahead.
 
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To be fair - if Apple had been running the show for the last 6 years then Tesla would maybe not be in the mess they are now.

Polestar, Volvo, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW, Porsche and everyone else is now coming for them. I wouldn't touch a Tesla due to the build quality and overpricing.


Well, Audi and Mercedes' first attempt is even less efficient than older Teslas.
And Mercedes' EQC in particular won't be available beyond homeopathic quantities before Q2-2020.
BMW has just warmed-up the i3 a bit, but I'm not aware of any imminent BEV launches by them.

So, it doesn't look like anybody is going to be able to leap-frog them any time soon.

Interior quality of Teslas has apparently greatly improved since about a year. Now they "just" need to add head-up displays, matrix LED light, a bit more comfortable seats (reportedly a bit too short in the Model 3) and maybe a bit improved climate control.

Another problem is that, generally speaking, there were already a bit too many car-manufacturers on this planet well before the Chinese entered. The market isn't really growing and thus, a few will have to disappear.

As for those who don't like Tesla's giant tablet-screen in the middle: that ship has sailed. They are going to be everywhere in a couple of years, in some form.
 
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If the rumor is true, good thing it never went through. Only thing Tesla has of any value is their name brand. Nothing in their cars is groundbreaking or better than what other automakers already have access to.

Not at all true. And clearly coming from a person with limited Tesla experience. No other manufacturer is even up to the level Tesla was at in 2012. Tesla is building the future, all the other major auto manufacturers are still pouring the majority of their money into ICE vehicles and building electric vehicles to meet government quotas.
 
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BMW has three all new electric cars — the iX3, i4, and iNext — teed up and (almost) ready to launch. It has just released the first photos of the trio being put through their paces in northern Sweden where their electric drivetrains are being studied to make sure they are up to the rigors of driving in bitter cold conditions.

I have a friend who works at BMW - they are in the business to make money unlike Tesla who just lost another $702 Million in the 1st quarter of 2019. (BMW only made $10Bn last year after a drop in profits!!).

Audi Q4 E-Tron out shortly, the electric and hybrid Volvo XC40s, the Polestar 2 etc. The Jaguar i-Pace for example has same range as the Model X and proper doors.

Tesla are toast.

"No other manufacturer is even up to the level Tesla was at in 2012."
Yeah right. We totally believe that.
 
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Not at all true. And clearly coming from a person with limited Tesla experience. No other manufacturer is even up to the level Tesla was at in 2012. Tesla is building the future, all the other major auto manufacturers are still pouring the majority of their money into ICE vehicles and building electric vehicles to meet government quotas.

Thing is - you need more than just a clever idea and a great vision to succeed. Implementation matters. It’s one thing to have a great idea on paper, it’s another to be able to actually make a profit from it.

And from what I can see, Tesla is suffering from gross mismanagement.

Electric cars may well be the future. It doesn’t guarantee Tesla a place in this new world order they seek to usher in.
 
Thing is - you need more than just a clever idea and a great vision to succeed. Implementation matters. It’s one thing to have a great idea on paper, it’s another to be able to actually make a profit from it.

And from what I can see, Tesla is suffering from gross mismanagement.

Electric cars may well be the future. It doesn’t guarantee Tesla a place in this new world order they seek to usher in.

Tesla has done some cool stuff, but trying to learn how to actually build cars when everyone else has 100 years experience has been their downfall. Seems to be it is pretty much the non-electric stuff that is causing them to fail. Adding those ludicrous pointless doors to the model X is a good example of Musk getting carried away with his own ego.
 
Audi Q4 E-Tron out shortly, the electric and hybrid Volvo XC40s, the Polestar 2 etc. The Jaguar i-Pace for example has same range as the Model X and proper doors.

Tesla are toast.

"No other manufacturer is even up to the level Tesla was at in 2012."
Yeah right. We totally believe that.

Those are all very expressive, luxury cars. The best selling EV car worldwide will still be the Tesla 3. Until something better comes along, but it won't be soon.
 
What, being an automotive engineer isn't enough for you? Driving all the different Tesla vehicles for weeks and bringing them into a shop to see how they're built isn't enough for you?

Or maybe you're one of the automotive engineers with tunnel vision as you apparently aren't able to appreciate the MASSIVE changes Tesla has brought with their in-house electronics and all that entails (OTA, world class electric motors that are most efficient, smallest packaging, and cost the least), etc. How many expert engineers did Nokia have when the iPhone came out? How's that company doing now?

Also if you're really an automotive engineer, then you should be fully aware of who Sandy Munro is and his decades of experience in the industry. Did you watch the video I linked yet?

Uh, I never said The X7 should be compared to a Model 3. I specifically compared it to a Model X - both SUV's in the luxury price segment. And the Model X is a complete POS compared to the X7.
Again with the interior quality when the person you were replying to was talking about how it drives.

Which BMW do you own? Surely if it's a later model the features it has should be obvious compared to any Tesla.

2017 i3. It has exactly zero features that I miss when in the Tesla. Zero. I've had 3 Series and X3 loaners (because BMW requires overnight visits to update the software LOL) and those were much worse IMO, but tbh it wasn't as much about the feature set as it was the incredible lag that goes along with a gas engine and transmission. That sort of input lag is a total deal breaker for me at this point, YMMV.

To be honest (and I think about this a lot) the only thing I like better about the i3 over my Model 3 is the plastic body panels for their dent resistance. Ironically despite the i3 having crazy materials like the CFRP frame and bizarrely narrow wheels it's less efficient than the Model 3 and has dramatically less power and range. Oh and the MSRP is higher, because BMW, I guess? But it leased like a Civic, so it's a good car for what I'm actually paying. Actually it's excellent at what it was designed for, and if I didn't also have a Model 3 to directly compare it to, I'd still be pretty happy with it, except for the exterior looks and stupid wheel size.

iDrive is like using a flip phone after a Tesla. BMW's software in general, which better than many other manufacturers, is still a dumpster fire. But that iDrive knob does feel nice, which it seems in your opinion is more important than easy to use software. I think that's fair if that's what's important to you. I admit software is important to me--A big part of the reason I like Apple products. Incidentally, I should mention the idrive knob was actually broken right off the showroom floor.

As an automotive engineer, I'm more than happy to hear your technical analysis (and debate them with you) of any Tesla model you wish. As opposed to linking to what someone else has said.

I just gave you my analysis on the Audi E-Tron and you didn't debate it--You totally ignored it.

Bragging about your electric vehicle being faster than a Mustang GT is like bragging about a four-cylinder sounding just as good as a V-8

Uh only one of those things is objective. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought people who bought Mustangs enjoyed quick acceleration. I guess for you it's just a sound thing, like how some folks missed the sound of horseshoes clopping on the ground when cars showed up.

But there’s nothing wrong being proud of your battery powered go-cart that's quicker than my Mustang

T;FTFY ;)

BMW has three all new electric cars — the iX3, i4, and iNext — teed up and (almost) ready to launch. It has just released the first photos of the trio being put through their paces in northern Sweden where their electric drivetrains are being studied to make sure they are up to the rigors of driving in bitter cold conditions.

Any day now those manufacturers will surely catch up! (Repeat since 2012)


Audi Q4 E-Tron out shortly, the electric and hybrid Volvo XC40s, the Polestar 2 etc. The Jaguar i-Pace for example has same range as the Model X and proper doors.

Tesla are toast.

First, the i-Pace has EPA range of 234 miles. The lowest tier Model X is 250 EPA miles and the "long range" is 325 miles. So the X has more range even though it's much larger than the i-Pace and has 3 row seating.

Audi? Did you see how uncompetitive the E-Tron is? Please.

Polestar 2 due out in 1-2 years has specs that either match or are worse than the 2017 Model 3. And yet it costs more. How is that going to beat Tesla? Is the mandatory google surveilance going to be the deciding factor in favor of the Chinese brand?

"No other manufacturer is even up to the level Tesla was at in 2012."
Yeah right. We totally believe that.

Name one manufacturer that has an EV powertain (the most important feature of the car) that's competitive with Tesla. I'll wait.
 
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To be fair - if Apple had been running the show for the last 6 years then Tesla would maybe not be in the mess they are now.

Polestar, Volvo, Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW, Porsche and everyone else is now coming for them. I wouldn't touch a Tesla due to the build quality and overpricing.
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Tesla have had their time in the spotlight. Now the professionals are coming.

Tesla have been like the budget airlines......they have led the market. But I don't actually want to fly with Easyjet and I don't want to drive a Tesla, but I do still benefit from the efforts they have made to push things ahead.

Spoken like someone who has never driven one.
 
Uh only one of those things is objective. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought people who bought Mustangs enjoyed quick acceleration. .

I think it’s clear you evidently don’t understand the principles from my past points and I can actually understand why, because it’s not just about ‘acceleration or the engine note’, it’s about the _overall_ enjoyment of the whole vehicle of what the driver sees value in. I respected your viewpoint and said everyone has their different appreciations, there’s no need to insert juvenile remarks, when the principle of the discussion isn’t necessarily about ‘acceleration’, more or less what we value the major differences in both of these cars with EV/ICE. But I digress, and this discussion is clearly exhausted.
 
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I made a "serious bid" today, grabbing some TSLA stock. It's a bargain at this price! Anyone who's driven a Tesla knows that.
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Everyone would be better off if Elon Musk headed up Apple along with Scott Forstall.
You might be grabbing it to $0. Tesla’s product and capital structure are 2 different things.

Tesla has A LOT of debt, is burning cash, and doesn’t make any profit. Building cars is not easy and is super competitive. Other companies know how to build electric cars too.

Their cars are expensive, rely on subsidies, and have poor build quality.

Elon Musk is a genius, but is unstable and so rich, he won’t blink if the equity is wiped out. He’ll just start another company.

Good luck.
 
I agree that we'd all be better off going to electric cars, but the one drawback - and it lands particularly hard on your comment - is that they can't be charged as fast as a gas-powered card can be refueled. You can be in and out of a gas station in 5 minutes. You can't (last I looked) put any useful amount of electricity into an electric vehicle in 5 minutes. Turning fuel stations into charging stations wouldn't work - if you pull in and have to spend half an hour, or an hour or two, sitting there, it's wasted time. Charging stations need to be somewhere that you were going to be anyway for a long time - home or work, for instance. So, yeah, go electric, push society towards electric, but simply switching gas stations to charging stations, at those same locations, seems foolish.


Charging time is the one drawback, but people can charge at home (you can't get gas at home). But for long traveling time is still an issue. Supercharging is getting there esp with Tesla and their V3 stations. Give it a few years, it will get there.
 
BMW has three all new electric cars — the iX3, i4, and iNext — teed up and (almost) ready to launch. It has just released the first photos of the trio being put through their paces in northern Sweden where their electric drivetrains are being studied to make sure they are up to the rigors of driving in bitter cold conditions.

I have a friend who works at BMW - they are in the business to make money unlike Tesla who just lost another $702 Million in the 1st quarter of 2019. (BMW only made $10Bn last year after a drop in profits!!).

Audi Q4 E-Tron out shortly, the electric and hybrid Volvo XC40s, the Polestar 2 etc. The Jaguar i-Pace for example has same range as the Model X and proper doors.

Tesla are toast.

"No other manufacturer is even up to the level Tesla was at in 2012."
Yeah right. We totally believe that.

Wouldn't be bragging about BMW just yet, its own board isn't happy with the direction
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...oubt-as-tensions-erupt-on-tackling-epic-shift

Oh,and I have a real friend who is a Service Manager at a BMW dealership, and let give you some free advice. Always lease a BMW, always lease.

As for your other examples, let me know when they get past 5K a week in production...........collectively.

Apparently I am too old, because I remember the same vitriol and arguments against another startup that lost money for years.............Amazon.
 
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BMW has three all new electric cars — the iX3, i4, and iNext — teed up and (almost) ready to launch.

BMW has so many electrical related issues with sensors, chirping under steering wheel column, OEM battery blowing light bulbs, etc. that customers will cringe at an all electric BMW car.
 
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