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deanthedev

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Sep 29, 2017
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Ummm look at the dimensions of the homepod! It's very well known as to the exact size specs of the homepod, as well as the size woofer they are using. There is no way there is enough air space in there to give tight, accurate bass, across the low end spectrum. There's no amount of magic or physics that can change this. It would be different if it were in a sealed chamber, or even a 4th/bandpass, but that does not seem to be the case. Not to mention, 7 horn loaded tweeters paired with a single 4" woofer?! What kinda silly array is this?! Beat's are the furthest from audiophile quality, but even they could have done a better job....

Specs are well known? I’d like you to tell me the following about the HomePod:

- The impedance of the woofer.
- The wattage of the amplifier driving it.
- The frequency response of the HomePod including graphs showing the rolloff at both ends.
- The maximum volume output of the HomePod.
- The distortion at various frequencies and output levels.

The bottom line is you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about, and are simply throwing around a few technical terms to make it sound like you do.
[doublepost=1511114231][/doublepost]
Let's be honest and realist here.
We see things like 360' speakers in demos and a few show set-ups.
And I'm sure SOME very few homes, would place a speaker on a table in the middle of a room (once they would out how to run power to the middle of the room)

But come on. We all know, for 99%+ of normal households Speakers are placed on a table, a shelf, a stand which is against the wall, and firing sound into the room. That's where you have all your wires and power sockets.

I've has a few 360' speakers, and it's a novel idea in theory.
But reality of people's homes is not the same.

As for moving the speaker around so it constantly needs to change the sound, or large items being placed by it so it again changes the sound.
Really?

I'm hoping for great room filling strong crisp/clear sound from any speaker. and not tech gimmicks.

I'm going to be very interested to see how the sound quality from Apple's unit stacks up to Google's Unit.

Nothing like completely missing everything I said. Why are you talking about speakers in the middle of the room when I never once mentioned that? In fact, in my follow up post I talked specifically about having a HomePod against a wall and using a combination of reflected and direct sound to creat a larger soundstage. Try again.
 
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Regime2008

Suspended
Oct 3, 2017
720
798
Basshead in ATL
Specs are well known? I’d like you to tell me the following about the HomePod:

- The impedance of the woofer.
- The wattage of the amplifier driving it.
- The frequency response of the HomePod including graphs showing the rolloff at both ends.
- The maximum volume output of the HomePod.
- The distortion at various frequencies and output levels.

The bottom line is you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about, and are simply throwing around a few technical terms to make it sound like you do.
[doublepost=1511114231][/doublepost]

Nothing like completely missing everything I said. Why are you talking about speakers in the middle of the room when I never once mentioned that? In fact, in my follow up post I talked specifically about having a HomePod against a wall and using a combination of reflected and direct sound to creat a larger soundstage. Try again.
Maybe if you read my post you would see that i mentioned size and i was talking about air space for the enclosure. Start with that. Look at how small the airpod is, do you really think a 4" driver will be able to produce a range of low end frequencies, in such a small package? Do you REALLY think the woofer can move 20mm of excursion without going over it's mechanical limits? Do you realize it would have to get a bit of power to do that? My woofers can move about 60mm, peak to peak, and it takes quite some power to do that, and a really low frequency. Doubt the homepod will be playing much below 55hz. Please don't shift goal posts again, cause you have no clue what you are talking about. You just tried to flip the script and completely disregarded everything.
 
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Piggie

macrumors G3
Feb 23, 2010
9,117
4,016
I have to giggle about arguments of speaker tricks.
I don't recall seeing VERY LARGE room speakers with sub bass units etc, many many thousand of pounds, needing to use AI and bounce sound off walls and sound stages.

My old? speakers that I've not fired up in years have 10" Bass, 4" MidRange and 1" bullet Tweeters and sounded jaw dropping.
Just how a 4" ish bass or two are going to match two 10" bass drivers I don't know :)

I used to have a Roland Jupiter 6 Synth, that I messed around with.
And yes, I now kick myself that I sold it cheap back then.
Used to make me smile as I could get the windows in the room to start rattling/vibrating on some nice thick analogue synth notes from my speakers :)
 

Regime2008

Suspended
Oct 3, 2017
720
798
Basshead in ATL
I have to giggle about arguments of speaker tricks.
I don't recall seeing VERY LARGE room speakers with sub bass units etc, many many thousand of pounds, needing to use AI and bounce sound off walls and sound stages.

My old? speakers that I've not fired up in years have 10" Bass, 4" MidRange and 1" bullet Tweeters and sounded jaw dropping.
Just how a 4" ish bass or two are going to match two 10" bass drivers I don't know :)
Honestly, none of the smart speakers are going to truly be able to impress anyone who has even a mediocre setup in their homes. I am perfectly fine with my Google home, connected to my setup. If i really want to turn up the volume, I'll just hop in my Jeep. 2 18" subs on 8k watts will rattle your socks off. But comparing the smart speakers, i feel Google max will be the superior product in the higher tier of devices.
 
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TheFluffyDuck

macrumors 6502a
Jul 26, 2012
741
1,859
"Here at Apple we move to where the puck is going to be, not where it is or was". Hahaha! Years to late again. Plus Siri is several kinds of God awful.
 
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deanthedev

Suspended
Sep 29, 2017
1,287
2,406
Vancouver
Maybe if you read my post you would see that i mentioned size and i was talking about air space for the enclosure. Start with that. Look at how small the airpod is, do you really think a 4" driver will be able to produce a range of low end frequencies, in such a small package? Do you REALLY think the woofer can move 20mm of excursion without going over it's mechanical limits? Do you realize it would have to get a bit of power to do that? My woofers can move about 60mm, peak to peak, and it takes quite some power to do that, and a really low frequency. Doubt the homepod will be playing much below 55hz. Please don't shift goal posts again, cause you have no clue what you are talking about. You just tried to flip the script and completely disregarded everything.

No, you’re the one moving goalposts continually throughout this post. Trying to use terms like 4th order bandpass, fs or xmax to make it sound like you know what you’re talking about. Then claiming we know the specs of the HomePod when we don’t have a clue. Bringing up your own drivers and how much they move when it has absolutely no bearing on the HomePod or Google Max. All because you’re apparently upset about the possibility the HomePod is going to be a very good speaker, and need to try and diminish its capabilities any chance you get.

I find it curious you’re completely ignoring my points about the array of tweeters and how they’d work, instead resorting to a stupid comment about how “silly” it is.
[doublepost=1511129695][/doublepost]
I have to giggle about arguments of speaker tricks.
I don't recall seeing VERY LARGE room speakers with sub bass units etc, many many thousand of pounds, needing to use AI and bounce sound off walls and sound stages.

My old? speakers that I've not fired up in years have 10" Bass, 4" MidRange and 1" bullet Tweeters and sounded jaw dropping.
Just how a 4" ish bass or two are going to match two 10" bass drivers I don't know :)

I used to have a Roland Jupiter 6 Synth, that I messed around with.
And yes, I now kick myself that I sold it cheap back then.
Used to make me smile as I could get the windows in the room to start rattling/vibrating on some nice thick analogue synth notes from my speakers :)

Yeah, the audience giggles when I setup my Meyer system with all its “gimmicks” and “processing”. They don’t seem to care I’m using drivers much smaller than what I’m “supposed” to be using. When I have the ability to crank it up loud enough to peel the skin off their faces they suddenly don’t seem to care about what “tricks” are being used, only how good it sounds.
 
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Regime2008

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Oct 3, 2017
720
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Basshead in ATL
No, you’re the one moving goalposts continually throughout this post. Trying to use terms like 4th order bandpass, fs or xmax to make it sound like you know what you’re talking about. Then claiming we know the specs of the HomePod when we don’t have a clue. Bringing up your own drivers and how much they move when it has absolutely no bearing on the HomePod or Google Max. All because you’re apparently upset about the possibility the HomePod is going to be a very good speaker, and need to try and diminish its capabilities any chance you get.

I find it curious you’re completely ignoring my points about the array of tweeters and how they’d work, instead resorting to a stupid comment about how “silly” it is.
Guess your experience in sound engineering doesn't extend from your mobile production, cause anyone with some knowledge of sound should know what I was referring to. Again, nice way to dodge my questions, yet again. I never claimed to know the specs of the drivers, I mentioned the size of the homepod, several times as matter a fact. Do you know the relation to airspace and a driver, and how it affects sound? I don't think it will sound bad, far from it, but i don't believe it will get anywhere as loud or have as good of a range as the Google home max
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
19,575
22,034
Singapore
What's wrong with that? I guess you don't know what's called "Spirit of Apple". Ask any die hard fan of Apple whether they are proud of Apple churning out watch bands and emojis. Worst is Apple talking about emojis in the event!
The Mac is a niche business, and Apple is now way larger than a bunch of computers. Get over yourselves. There are tons of people happy with Watch bands and emojis and what Apple is doing now, and their profits and larger user base is proof of that.

The “spirit of Apple” is the same as it has always been - to use design to differentiate their products and make them easier and more enjoyable to use. Seems like you are all stuck in that “2007 to 2011” era of Apple while Apple has moved forward in keeping with the times.

Ironic that the self-styled “die hard fans” who were once responsible for Apple staying in business would now be the biggest stumbling block of them all when it comes to Apple moving forward. The problem isn’t that Apple has changed. It’s that you people haven’t.

Fortunately, Apple is much greater than a small group of extremely vocal “die hard fans”. For which I am eternally grateful.

Onwards, Apple!!! Towards the future!!!
 
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Neonblue

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2009
219
188
London
A shame, but their timing of the announcement definitely worked...by now I would have had an echo (especially with Black Friday deals). I’m just gonna wait this one out for next year.
 

madeirabhoy

macrumors 68000
Oct 26, 2012
1,612
558
A shame, but their timing of the announcement definitely worked...by now I would have had an echo (especially with Black Friday deals). I’m just gonna wait this one out for next year.


personally, id say id be like a lot of people. i was definitely getting a homepod for christmas, in part so i could get philips hue stuff. now im looking at google home versus amazon echo and thinking google is the lesser evil. once ive got that its unlikely ill then pick up a home pod, and im sure apple will lose lots of sales because they are missing this christmas.
 

Uofmtiger

macrumors 68020
Dec 11, 2010
2,312
1,031
Memphis
personally, id say id be like a lot of people. i was definitely getting a homepod for christmas, in part so i could get philips hue stuff. now im looking at google home versus amazon echo and thinking google is the lesser evil. once ive got that its unlikely ill then pick up a home pod, and im sure apple will lose lots of sales because they are missing this christmas.
How is google the “lesser evil”?

I have Dots, so I am curious about your statement.
 
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chriscrowlee

macrumors 65816
Aug 10, 2015
1,333
1,468
San Diego, CA
im sure apple will lose lots of sales because they are missing this christmas.

You're assuming a wide availability was ever going to be real... you know if it's like any product they've released the past 3 years (Macbook Pro TB, AirPods, Beats X, iPhone X) the availability would have been next to none and we'd all be bitching about that anyhow.

Apple = Messy lately.
 

deanthedev

Suspended
Sep 29, 2017
1,287
2,406
Vancouver
Guess your experience in sound engineering doesn't extend from your mobile production, cause anyone with some knowledge of sound should know what I was referring to. Again, nice way to dodge my questions, yet again. I never claimed to know the specs of the drivers, I mentioned the size of the homepod, several times as matter a fact. Do you know the relation to airspace and a driver, and how it affects sound? I don't think it will sound bad, far from it, but i don't believe it will get anywhere as loud or have as good of a range as the Google home max

My original post stated: “The ONLY thing it might beat the HomePod at is bass, having 2 drivers. But we won’t know until someone tests them.”

My post is 100% factually correct. I already stated the Google Max could have higher bass output based on its having 2 drivers. I followed it up with the qualifier that we won’t know until they are tested.

You posted that you have 2 18’s and 8K in your Jeep. Which drivers are you using and which amps? I bet if someone came along and said their setup with 4 Pyle 18” subs that cost them $99 each could put out as much bass as your setup of 2-18’s you’d laugh at them. Yet at the same time you’re discounting the HomePod single driver as being inferior to the dual drivers in the Max without knowing a thing about either.
 

gleepskip

macrumors 6502a
Apr 29, 2005
641
1,734
A shame, but their timing of the announcement definitely worked...by now I would have had an echo (especially with Black Friday deals). I’m just gonna wait this one out for next year.

The problem we face with the Google and Amazon products are lack of Airplay and Apple Music. HomeKit as well. Regardless of price or technical specs, competing products will have to be shoehorned into our Apple homes. Sonos is the only one I'm aware of that might be a little more cooperative in an Apple ecosystem.

I was briefly tempted looking at the other systems, but I realized that ultimately I would be disappointed by the lack of integration and buy a HomePod in the end anyway.
 
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madeirabhoy

macrumors 68000
Oct 26, 2012
1,612
558
You're assuming a wide availability was ever going to be real... you know if it's like any product they've released the past 3 years (Macbook Pro TB, AirPods, Beats X, iPhone X) the availability would have been next to none and we'd all be bitching about that anyhow.

Apple = Messy lately.


not really. if home pod was released id have one ordered, even if it didnt turn up until january or february.

what i wont do is hang around to...when.....maybe even april or may, and then order and then wait because of lack of availability.

google home is 77 quid so ill get one and if i do want a home pod then the google will get moved somewhere probably the kitchen, but apple is taking a big risk since lots of apple users will buy google or echo this christmas and might decide they are enough for us.
[doublepost=1511134576][/doublepost]
How is google the “lesser evil”?

I have Dots, so I am curious about your statement.

nothing serious meant, just think the theres an amazon ecosystem (or should that be echosystem) and an apple ecosystem, and if i lived in the uk and could take advantage of echo prime then the amazon life would be appealing.

but i figure in a completely apple household, the google chrome might fit better, and even it it doesnt, it looks better.
 

Regime2008

Suspended
Oct 3, 2017
720
798
Basshead in ATL
My original post stated: “The ONLY thing it might beat the HomePod at is bass, having 2 drivers. But we won’t know until someone tests them.”

My post is 100% factually correct. I already stated the Google Max could have higher bass output based on its having 2 drivers. I followed it up with the qualifier that we won’t know until they are tested.

You posted that you have 2 18’s and 8K in your Jeep. Which drivers are you using and which amps? I bet if someone came along and said their setup with 4 Pyle 18” subs that cost them $99 each could put out as much bass as your setup of 2-18’s you’d laugh at them. Yet at the same time you’re discounting the HomePod single driver as being inferior to the dual drivers in the Max without knowing a thing about either.
I am well aware that the Home Max will probably have better low end to mid range spectrum than the homepod. The Homepod will probably have crisper highs on the other hand.

Cone area is king, then you have efficiency, mass, fs of the drivers, air space, resonating fq, etc. We don't know the TS specs of the drivers, but we do know the size, quantity, as well as the weight of the products. Google Home Max is 11.7lbs, Homepod is 5.5lbs. Home Max is 13.2 x 7.4 x 6, while Homepod is 6.8 x 5.6 x 5.6. You have to take into account the weight of the drivers and amplifiers. Each amp will have capacitors, mosfets, toroids, etc. If each of the 7 tweets will have its own amp, plus the woofer's amp, imagine how small these amps must be in order for the whole Homepod to only weigh 5.5lbs. I'm willing to bet that both companies are probably using class D topology.

I am currently using 2 Dss 18" (direct sound solutions) subwoofers on a Taramps 8k amp. The motors of the subs use MMAG technology, and its the only subs in the world with 3 air gaps. This means they can retain 100 BL as the voice coil moves out of the magnetic gap, unlike tradition drivers. With that being said, someone with 4 18's could get louder than mine depending on tuning fq of enclosure, power to the subs, vehicle resonance, and many more factors. My wall is currently tuned to 31hz, and used to be tuned to 28hz, and I could easily hit 153+db at 23hz, sealed up on the dash. Those 4 Pyle subs could probably beat me in frequencies above 60hz on the other hand though, but I doubt they could take as much power, except in short bursts.
 
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Uofmtiger

macrumors 68020
Dec 11, 2010
2,312
1,031
Memphis
not really. if home pod was released id have one ordered, even if it didnt turn up until january or february.

what i wont do is hang around to...when.....maybe even april or may, and then order and then wait because of lack of availability.

google home is 77 quid so ill get one and if i do want a home pod then the google will get moved somewhere probably the kitchen, but apple is taking a big risk since lots of apple users will buy google or echo this christmas and might decide they are enough for us.
[doublepost=1511134576][/doublepost]

nothing serious meant, just think the theres an amazon ecosystem (or should that be echosystem) and an apple ecosystem, and if i lived in the uk and could take advantage of echo prime then the amazon life would be appealing.

but i figure in a completely apple household, the google chrome might fit better, and even it it doesnt, it looks better.
Thanks for the response. I liked your “echosystem” comment.

As Google has said, this product category is new. Nothing will be permanently decided for a while. I personally wouldn’t mind having Siri and Alexa products around the house controlling different things. I am not sure I want Google more involved in my life than they are now, so I may leave them out of my Home ecosystem... time will tell.
 

Gameboy70

macrumors 6502a
Sep 21, 2011
515
231
Santa Monica, CA
I personally question this whole product category. Like wearables, it seems largely supply driven at this point.
Hence Apple’s decision to market the device as a speaker first, smart assistant second. Stationary speakers don’t have the sex appeal of other gadgets, but they sell well, even without the more esoteric Her features.
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
19,575
22,034
Singapore
Without having to make counter arguments to what you stated point by point, I as a user and consumer of apple products expect more. They really are the most valuable company for a reason and that is because I feel they profit margin you to death with their product instead of giving their customers more value in hardware. There is SO MUCH i could go on about in this topic alone.

Think if iPhones ran android, would anyone buy an iPhone, most likely not. Hardware wise they have been 3 years behind Samsung. So, with that in mind lets just say IOS is the safer easier, although less feature ridden OS. I don't think thats debatable. So essentially my problem is apple has been riding the wave of prosperity put in place a long time ago. I, as a consumer expect more cutting edge devices from the worlds largest tech company. Especially because Apple themselves espouse the idea they are tech leaders of the industry. (They are not). Since Jobs' death they have stopped being the technology mavericks and been more the company that waits 3 years for components to get cheap enough, then put it in their device so they can garner max profit. From a business prospect this is understandable. From a consumer standpoint this is disgusting and it IS WHY APPLE IS THE MOST VALUABLE COMPANY. Don't ever think for a second the customer comes first in many of their decisions. It's why you are still using old hardware from a company that charges top dollar.

Year after year they have nothing but disappointed most people. (I'm actually glad the sentiment has been growing to the point where Apple has become aware of it.) We as consumers want to see cutting edge stuff in a phone, instead they make a phone slightly thinner, same boring design and don't use better and modern standards that other people put in their phones. As an apple user, its like you have to wait at least 3 years for something you want in your phone to show up if you are lucky. Because apple is not about giving their fan base the best. They give you the same old crap and feed you the kool-aid to make the mindless lemmings think they are getting something great.

The iPhone X is nothing special. I just do not understand anyone who doesn't grasp this. Guess what, your XBOX ONE had face ID 3-4 years ago, although a simpler form. Oh, no physical home button, yep other phones have done that too.

Until people force Apples hand to actually innovate and be the first to the party with something, only the lemmings will follow and people who expect more will continue to be disappointed. So many things they release are products their competitors have been doing for a while. They also have a bad tendency to ignore things for a longtime and let many things sit in limbo for too long in a world where it's all to easy to fall behind in the technology race. I always see the iphone as a stable non-cutting edge device that is adequate and reliable.

Once again they weren't interested in putting a Gigabit modem, USB-C, fast charger, better waterproofing, more ram, or even bigger power brick in the box, or faster wireless charging capability. They still put a 5w charger and crummy headphones in their $1000+ FLAGSHIP device, and tons of people slobber all over it, and THATS WHY THEY ARE THE MOST VALUABLE COMPANY.

So they are the best when it comes to giving you as little as they could get away with when charging more money than anyone in a major smartphone manufacturer. I think they are so rich they have become complacent and no longer have the hunger they once did for things, and definitely don't have the leadership they used to, who always demanded the most from it's people for the sake of the consumer and having a passion and much pride in delivering.

I just may be of a different philosophy of trying to deliver the best and the profits will follow. Yes margins may be slimmer, but Apple is so rich they could afford to give a little back and take some more chances of raking in a bit less margin.

So what do I expect for the homepod? I expect for $350 for it to sound better than any other $350 speaker out there because Apple has the money and should have the know how to do it. They also have the corporate might to get better components for less money. If there is a cheaper speaker that sounds, better people should not buy it. It shouldn't be THAT hard as the bluetooth speaker market is HORRIBLY over priced.

I feel that the biggest issue here is that you as a consumer fundamentally misunderstand what Apple is about and as such, have way skewed expectations about the type of products Apple deals in. And then it is no wonder that you appear upset when Apple doesn’t deliver what you want - because they are not the type of company you make them out to be.

Apple sees components as ingredients in a dish and uses them to put together the best tasting dish according to their standards, and this doesn’t always necessitate using the best ingredients in-class.

Just last year, I bought an iPad Pro, Apple Pencil, Apple Watch and Airpods. And I did this because they offer me the best user experience for what I wanted to do with them, even though people may have tons of criticism about they don’t always use the latest, bleeding-edge specs. They are working very well for me, and I am happy using them.

What I am paying for is Apple’s expertise in being able to leverage on their control over hardware and software and put all these disparate parts together in order to give me that great user experience which no other company can, even if they might use way better technology on paper.

That’s what Apple does best. I am not interested in having the best specs on paper just to win some dick-measuring contest. If you want all these freebies and extras, then maybe you should consider going over to Samsung, because this is just now the way Apple works.
 
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rowspaxe

macrumors 68020
Jan 29, 2010
2,214
1,009
So you will never in the future ever be interested in any robot or AI device for the home as you are scared it's beaming back information about what you are doing?

The ai that might make this interesting is as yet unknown. The use of devices for surveillance is real. Get back to me in ten years
[doublepost=1511145347][/doublepost]
Better to get it right than release a half baked product.
like the watch
 

Tec972

macrumors regular
Aug 19, 2010
220
144
I feel that the biggest issue here is that you as a consumer fundamentally misunderstand what Apple is about and as such, have way skewed expectations about the type of products Apple deals in. And then it is no wonder that you appear upset when Apple doesn’t deliver what you want - because they are not the type of company you make them out to be.

Apple sees components as ingredients in a dish and uses them to put together the best tasting dish according to their standards, and this doesn’t always necessitate using the best ingredients in-class.

Just last year, I bought an iPad Pro, Apple Pencil, Apple Watch and Airpods. And I did this because they offer me the best user experience for what I wanted to do with them, even though people may have tons of criticism about they don’t always use the latest, bleeding-edge specs. They are working very well for me, and I am happy using them.

What I am paying for is Apple’s expertise in being able to leverage on their control over hardware and software and put all these disparate parts together in order to give me that great user experience which no other company can, even if they might use way better technology on paper.
Are stale des
That’s what Apple does best. I am arguing top dollar for the snot interested in having the best specs on paper just to win some dick-measuring contest. If you want all these freebies and extras, then maybe you should consider going over to Samsung, because this is just now the way Apple works.

Yes because all they care about is using cheaper parts to charge the highest price. That’s what kind of company Apple is. The statement about the ingredients in the dish and standards just doesn’t hold weight. They could use better components but like I said, the first thing they ever consider is maintaining the hefty profit margin. You can choose to be naive and think that Apple is benevolent. I think they are extremely greedy. Among the greediest out there.

I mean how many years have they been charging top dollar and ripping people off with the same stale designs. It’s borderline ridiculous. I mean why did it take so long for Apple to get a 4K Apple TV? They are two years late. There were other 4K devices when they released their last generation. Let me guess they wanted to get it right, LOL. As an owner of that device, if they spent two years trying to get that right they failed epically. You can choose to believe the hype they feed you. I don’t buy it.

I think they could do better, and I think they aren’t that interested in leading the way except to the bank.
 
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