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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,390
19,458
It's a 'felt' 100%. Much like it felt like a million people. And a feeling per se isn't wrong, it feels what it feels. The problem starts when you compare felt 'facts' with measured facts. It's quite possible that the '70% solution' feels like a 95% solution to anybody observing online comments.
Nothing about feelings was mentioned in the post that it was all in reply to. Certainly plenty of all kinds of issues (including battery ones) discussed in iOS 9 (and earlier) days.
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,219
3,031
Nothing about feelings was mentioned in the post that it was all in reply to. Certainly plenty of all kinds of issues (including battery ones) discussed in iOS 9 (and earlier) days.
Whoever said that 9.3.5 would reduce those issues by 100%, essentially reported a 'felt 100%', ie, judging from the lack of reports about such battery issues under iOS 9 this person came across, it felt like 100% of iPhones had been free of this issue.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,228
23,971
Gotta be in it to win it
Yes..if Apl would make good products without the MAJOR design flaws perhaps they would have more than a lousy 12% (and declining) of the market globally, and don't start with the" X of profit" bs stuff that indicates abusive pricing and abusive margins , this also indicates cost cutting so much so some suppliers are switching to Android

Heres' a fun game ,name ONE product without a major design flaw from Apl...go
12%..11%...10%.....
Apls an expensive vice , look at smoking for the trend line
If Apple were to make good products....oh wait...

Since your brought up declining market share, I'll bring up revenue. As far as abusive pricing, why are you buying their products? And there are switchers on both sides.

And the contestants say, let's name a product without an manufacturing issues at all from other companies as well? It's easy to play a game like that, it's a "hot" topic that's making a "splash".:)
 

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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,390
19,458
Whoever said that 9.3.5 would reduce those issues by 100%, essentially reported a 'felt 100%', ie, judging from the lack of reports about such battery issues under iOS 9 this person came across, it felt like 100% of iPhones had been free of this issue.
But there have been battery issues reported under iOS 9. And, again, the way the post was worded was certainly some ways off from anything related to "feelings".
 

BoltmanLives

Suspended
Feb 10, 2017
420
229
Since your brought up declining market share, I'll bring up revenue.

Yes you will because that is your only argument... I see it reflects overpriced products at way too high margins fueled by fans , that will change. It always amazes me apl fans will defend apl by proudly crowing ... "See that graph they overcharged us fans so much that that they make utmost revenues and with every service and accessory too..is that not awesome!"

LOL
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,228
23,971
Gotta be in it to win it
Yes you will because that is your only argument... I see it reflects overpriced products at way too high margins fueled by fans , that will change. It always amazes me apl fans will defend apl by proudly crowing ... "See that graph they overcharged us fans so much that that they make utmost revenues and with every service and accessory too..is that not awesome!"

LOL
Yes, like declining market share is your only argument.:rolleyes: You can't use the last record breaker as a means to disparage apple, as people are buying the products in spite of your opinion of "over priced" and "over charged". Your "opinions" clearly do not resonate with the tens of millions of apple customers.
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,219
3,031
But there have been battery issues reported under iOS 9. And, again, the way the post was worded was certainly some ways off from anything related to "feelings".
You misunderstand me. The person who brought that 100% presented it as a fact. But it was not a fact. For once, there is no data-based statistic on this, moreover there are certainly some reports to the contrary.

When you think that or when you are under the impression that something is true, based on anecdotal reports (or the lack thereof) as well as an unreliable memory regarding those anecdotal reports (or the lack of it), it might feel like a fact to you. Being under the impression, thinking that it is true, or it feeling like a fact, are all different words to express the same thing. If you think something is a fact, if you believe your memory, you don't think you are lying when you present it as a fact. It 'feels' like a fact to you.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,228
23,971
Gotta be in it to win it
You misunderstand me. The person who brought that 100% presented it as a fact. But it was not a fact. For once, there is no data-based statistic on this, moreover there are certainly some reports to the contrary.

When you think that or when you are under the impression that something is true, based on anecdotal reports (or the lack thereof) as well as an unreliable memory regarding those anecdotal reports (or the lack of it), it might feel like a fact to you. Being under the impression, thinking that it is true, or it feeling like a fact, are all different words to express the same thing. If you think something is a fact, if you believe your memory, you don't think you are lying when you present it as a fact. It 'feels' like a fact to you.
"feeling like a fact" is not the same as "being a fact". "Feeling like a fact" is an opinion.:apple:
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,219
3,031
"feeling like a fact" is not the same as "being a fact". "Feeling like a fact" is an opinion.:apple:
No, 'feeling like a fact' is when a person honestly thinks it is a fact even though should be able to realise that it is not a fact. When you are saying something that is not true but you are convinced that it is true, you are not lying because your mind is sending you the same signals that it would send you on something you have seen the proof that it is true. 'Mind sending you signals' is a fancier term for 'it feels like'.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,228
23,971
Gotta be in it to win it
No, 'feeling like a fact' is when a person honestly thinks it is a fact even though should be able to realise that it is not a fact. When you are saying something that is not true but you are convinced that it is true, you are not lying because your mind is sending you the same signals that it would send you on something you have seen the proof that it is true. 'Mind sending you signals' is a fancier term for 'it feels like'.
A "fact" can be proven with a some methodology. One can state something honestly in error, but that doesn't make it a "fact". It makes it an "error".
 

iop

macrumors 6502
Apr 15, 2011
275
227
You misunderstand me. The person who brought that 100% presented it as a fact.
No i didn't (present it as a fact). It was an emotional rant about Apple forcing to upgrade to new iOS versions despite the issues present. When I state facts, I give references.
 

adham7897

macrumors regular
Jan 27, 2017
122
24
I think my battery needs replacement but don't see that message in Settings.
Does anyone with 10.3 Beta 3 see that message?
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,219
3,031
No i didn't (present it as a fact). It was an emotional rant about Apple forcing to upgrade to new iOS versions despite the issues present. When I state facts, I give references.
Apple isn't exactly forcing you to upgrade, it's nudging you.

So your position appears to be that it is ok to exaggerate to make a deeper point? And that we should assume that every statement without a source is not a fact?

While I am all for providing sources, you know full well that it is impossible to have a conversation if every statement has to come with a source. You know what I would find a better model? To qualify statements when there is some uncertainty. You could have said: 'There were far less reports about phone shutdowns under iOS 9'.
 

617660

Cancelled
Sep 17, 2011
682
358
iOS 10 started the battery problem for me and it hasn't been fixed. Not on my device.

So if 70% to 80% of occurrence has been reduced, that means iOS 10, compared to iOS 9, effectively created additional 20% ~ 30% of battery problem for iPhone users.
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,219
3,031
So if 70% to 80% of occurrence has been reduced, that means iOS 10, compared to iOS 9, effectively created additional 20% ~ 30% of battery problem for iPhone users.
Yesterday, my phone died while somewhat cold at 9% (rewarming it started it back up). That is not perfect but a big improvement.
 

MrGuder

macrumors 68040
Nov 30, 2012
3,026
2,012
I'm curious did this software update really fix those who were having problems with their 6 and 6s shutting down?

I remember these same symptoms sounded a lot like when my iPhone 5 had shut downs but it was determined to be a batch of faulty batteries. So how can a software update fix faulty batteries? Unless this new issue with the 6 & 6s are not caused by faulty batteries. Yet why would Apple release a campaign to offer replacing the batteries and then now say it's fixed with a software update. I don't understand it.
 

iop

macrumors 6502
Apr 15, 2011
275
227
Apple isn't exactly forcing you to upgrade, it's nudging you.

So your position appears to be that it is ok to exaggerate to make a deeper point? And that we should assume that every statement without a source is not a fact?

While I am all for providing sources, you know full well that it is impossible to have a conversation if every statement has to come with a source. You know what I would find a better model? To qualify statements when there is some uncertainty. You could have said: 'There were far less reports about phone shutdowns under iOS 9'.
I wouldn't call this nudging. It used to download the bloody thing every single week, and then offer me two choices: "install now" and "install tonight". I have pressed the second option accidentally once, and I presume the installation would have proceeded had I not realized my mistake. Eventually I blocked mesu.apple.com on my router. Hopefully Apple has no means of going around this.

As for exaggeration, I'm all for it. Apple is certainly no stranger to exaggerations. After all, Apple's every single product is "revolutionary". So I feel it's perfectly justified to exaggerate issues in the same way. Apple is not a customer-centric company, and online bashing appears to be the only way to make them listen to the needs of product users. Every additional voice of dissent makes them take criticism more seriously. The more exaggeration, the more dissent.
 

theSeb

macrumors 604
Aug 10, 2010
7,466
1,893
none
I've owned many Macs and iDevices and the iPhone 6s is the first one where I've experienced an actual issue - the unexpected shutdown. I started to happen at around 10 to 20% and then over time it got the point when it would shutdown at anytime below 50%. I am happy to report that this update seems to have resolved this. The battery life still seems to drain faster than I would expect, but at least the phone does not shutdown anytime below 50%.
 

Keirasplace

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2014
4,059
1,278
Montreal
I'm curious did this software update really fix those who were having problems with their 6 and 6s shutting down?

I remember these same symptoms sounded a lot like when my iPhone 5 had shut downs but it was determined to be a batch of faulty batteries. So how can a software update fix faulty batteries? Unless this new issue with the 6 & 6s are not caused by faulty batteries. Yet why would Apple release a campaign to offer replacing the batteries and then now say it's fixed with a software update. I don't understand it.

Battery reports info on its status to system, system then does things, like shut down on this info or go into power saving mode.

It is possible that there were 2 simultaneous issues, bad batch of batteries for say 5% of phones produced at launch and also a software issue with IOS. Both occurring at the same time compounded the problem and made it seem worse than it actually was.

The software issue not only made it harder to find out if the scope of the hardware issue by masking it, some phones shutting down did so for software reasons, it exacerbated it, making phones with marginal batteries (but not yet failed) even worse.
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,219
3,031
I wouldn't call this nudging. It used to download the bloody thing every single week,
As you said it 'used to'. I think it was iOS 9 when that changed to sending you semi-regular notifications (and adding a red '1' to the Settings icon.
As for exaggeration, I'm all for it. Apple is certainly no stranger to exaggerations. After all, Apple's every single product is "revolutionary".
There is a difference between using words that can have broad meanings and using numbers or absolute statements.
So I feel it's perfectly justified to exaggerate issues in the same way. Apple is not a customer-centric company, and online bashing appears to be the only way to make them listen to the needs of product users. Every additional voice of dissent makes them take criticism more seriously. The more exaggeration, the more dissent.
You know, an-eye-for-an-eye eventually leaves everybody blind. Or in this case, fighting dishonesty (by exaggerating) with even more dishonesty.
 

MrGuder

macrumors 68040
Nov 30, 2012
3,026
2,012
I wouldn't call this nudging. It used to download the bloody thing every single week, and then offer me two choices: "install now" and "install tonight". I have pressed the second option accidentally once, and I presume the installation would have proceeded had I not realized my mistake. Eventually I blocked mesu.apple.com on my router. Hopefully Apple has no means of going around this.

As for exaggeration, I'm all for it. Apple is certainly no stranger to exaggerations. After all, Apple's every single product is "revolutionary". So I feel it's perfectly justified to exaggerate issues in the same way. Apple is not a customer-centric company, and online bashing appears to be the only way to make them listen to the needs of product users. Every additional voice of dissent makes them take criticism more seriously. The more exaggeration, the more dissent.
I'd agree. It's most likely how Apples adoption rate to iOS 10 is so high. Most people look at that and say, oh no I have to decide now or later tonight those are my only choices. When in reality there is not ever, I prefer to be in control of when a major update is about to take hold.
 

iop

macrumors 6502
Apr 15, 2011
275
227
I'd agree. It's most likely how Apples adoption rate to iOS 10 is so high. Most people look at that and say, oh no I have to decide now or later tonight those are my only choices. When in reality there is not ever, I prefer to be in control of when a major update is about to take hold.
It's just like the way Microsoft did it with Windows 10. But it was possible to roll back Windows 10 unlike iOS. I'm sure a lot iOS 10 users wouldn't mind switching back if they could.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,390
19,458
I wouldn't call this nudging. It used to download the bloody thing every single week, and then offer me two choices: "install now" and "install tonight". I have pressed the second option accidentally once, and I presume the installation would have proceeded had I not realized my mistake. Eventually I blocked mesu.apple.com on my router. Hopefully Apple has no means of going around this.

As for exaggeration, I'm all for it. Apple is certainly no stranger to exaggerations. After all, Apple's every single product is "revolutionary". So I feel it's perfectly justified to exaggerate issues in the same way. Apple is not a customer-centric company, and online bashing appears to be the only way to make them listen to the needs of product users. Every additional voice of dissent makes them take criticism more seriously. The more exaggeration, the more dissent.
The download can be deleted right on the device so that it wouldn't "nudge". A tvOS profile can be installed so that updates aren't even checked for (let alone downloaded).
 
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