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irnchriz

macrumors 65816
May 2, 2005
1,034
2
Scotland
See the problem with this logic is that they would have seen the problem if they had tested it on ONE iphone 6 or 6+. JUST ****ING ONE.

This is quite a big difference between releasing an update that has a bug in some edge case vs releasing an update that kills every single device.

The problem was that it DOESNT brick every iPhone 6 or 6 plus. Mine updated fine OTA. This is likely why Apple haven't been able to rush out a fix already as they have no idea what they screwed up, which is pretty poor tbh.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,459
(1) I never said anything was "fine". I've characterized this whole incident as surprisingly bad from Apple and an inconvenience.

(2) I'm not aware of any software that has been invented that didn't contain some bugs....now we can argue as to severity of said bugs, but the point is new updates will always have some bug that needs patching. One can ASSUME the patch won't break critical functionality, but that's different than being 100% sure. I don't know of any IT professional out there who would say you can ever be 100% sure a software update is completely bug free.

So yes, it is your fault for updating business critical hardware without first thinking about and accepting the consequences should something go wrong. At the very least, those individuals get no sympathy from me.

I don't think middle ground exists when it comes to Apple (it SHOULD, but really doesn't). Either the sky is falling or there's no problem.

I'm telling you, it was definitely a problem. I was quite perturbed and even had to completely start over on my 6+ because I went into the Apple Store early enough (literally 15 minutes after it went live as I updated right away) that they weren't aware of the situation and fix. He had me completely reset my device.

I spent my entire evening last night restoring my 6+ and re-installing all my apps (I have the 128GB version and loaded it with everything I could think I'd want....so it was a time consuming process).

I still wouldn't characterize the impact of this mistake as more than a semi-major inconvenience. Certainly no harm was done to me and my life was only minimally affected in that I was forced to reset my device.

I'm sorry - I just think people who act as though they've had a limb lopped off or like a family member has just died in response to losing cell connectivity for a few hours is just a little much.

The Webster's Dictionary definition of "Harm":

-physical or mental damage or injury : something that causes someone or something to be hurt, broken, made less valuable or successful, etc.

That last part - the successful part - could potentially be true. But then, see my first point about being smart enough not to update business critical hardware until you're at a place where its not critical for a certain period of time.

----------



I never see the red "1"....I characterize myself as updating immediately (usually within 30 minutes of release).

That "1" doesn't always pop up.....and for a minor update, the average consumer would have no knowledge it was even out, let alone care enough to update until after work or when they had time to do so.

Those of us who follow this stuff obviously know rather quickly. But I'd venture to guess we also own a computer and know how to restore back to 8.0.

I think the number of people who fall under the criteria you listed is likely a VERY small number of people. It would be interesting to see what percentage of the user base updates with an hour of the update being pushed.....obviously for major releases (iOS 5, 6, 7, 8 etc) this would be high because the release date is known before hand and publicized.

But point updates like 8.0.1 just happen.....even those of us who are plugged in won't know exactly. My guess is, the number of people who ACTUALLY updated is small to begin with. And the percentage of those people who don't have access to a computer or Apple store is even smaller....probably minuscule.
There are quite a few different sides to harm and different applications of it. Some examples are what's mentioned at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harm

At this point this would be pointlessly arguing semantics since it's pretty clear that publicly releasing an update that disables some inherent/basic features of a device is not even remotely OK and certainly brings at least some sort of negative consequences onto those who get that update and are affected by the issues in it. It's just that simple. Splitting hairs from there isn't a useful exercise as it doesn't change those basic facts.
 

wikiverse

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2012
691
958
I'm beginning to think product evaluation is an afterthought with their development team...

This is what happens when you do one big product release on a yearly schedule. Things get rushed.

Other manufacturers are constantly releasing hardware and software in various new products all the time so they usually are fine to put into a flagship product without major problems.

Apple could consider dropping the September annual release and just wait til products are ready, but that would hurt profits.

They might also want to tone down the marketing rhetoric. The 'it just works' thing doesn't do you any favours when something doesn't work.
 

dotme

macrumors 65816
Oct 18, 2011
1,198
257
Iowa
Um. I did not get notified about iOS 8 or 8.0.1. It took the phone all day to notify me with a red number that iOS 8 was available.
Those whose phones were plugged in and on wifi were notified much sooner. Bottom line - your experience isn't everyone else's.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
7,829
6,761
Those whose phones were plugged in and on wifi were notified much sooner. Bottom line - your experience isn't everyone else's.

Did I say it was? Most people are at work when this update came out, I was. I do not plug in my phone and have it connected to WiFi at work

What you just said also applies to you. Your use case is not everyone else's either. The number of users that upgrade immediately, had their phones turned on, plugged in, and connected to wifi within the update availability window, AND have iPhone 6/6+ is very very small.

Most general users I know do NOT plug in their phones or connect it to their work WiFi.

Bottom line here is ANY updates can cause problems. It does not matter if it is desktop OS or phone OS. These things are NOT dumb phones anymore. They have a sophisticated OS now, just like desktop OSes
 

dotme

macrumors 65816
Oct 18, 2011
1,198
257
Iowa
Did I say it was? Most people are at work when this update came out, I was. I do not plug in my phone and have it connected to WiFi at work

What you just said also applies to you. Your use case is not everyone else's either. The number of users that upgrade immediately, had their phones turned on, plugged in, and connected to wifi within the update availability window, AND have iPhone 6/6+ is very very small.

Most general users I know do NOT plug in their phones or connect it to their work WiFi
Understood. I didn't update, by the way. I just thought you were being dismissive of a problem that had real effect for thousands of new iPhone owners - just because you didn't experience it doesn't make it less real for those who did, if that makes sense.

Not everyone was at work when this happened. Many Europeans were home for the evening, for example, and yes - it impacted more than just USA users. About 40,000 or so world wide according to Apple.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,459
Did I say it was? Most people are at work when this update came out, I was. I do not plug in my phone and have it connected to WiFi at work

What you just said also applies to you. Your use case is not everyone else's either. The number of users that upgrade immediately, had their phones turned on, plugged in, and connected to wifi within the update availability window, AND have iPhone 6/6+ is very very small.

Most general users I know do NOT plug in their phones or connect it to their work WiFi.

Bottom line here is ANY updates can cause problems. It does not matter if it is desktop OS or phone OS. These things are NOT dumb phones anymore. They have a sophisticated OS now, just like desktop OSes
Many people I work with certainly connect to work WiFi and many of those plug their phones in at least for various time periods throughout the day if no most of the time. So, sure, it will depend on the workplace and all that, and probably the majority don't fall into this category, but just in plain numbers, many still often do.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
7,829
6,761
Understood. I didn't update, by the way. I just thought you were being dismissive of a problem that had real effect for thousands of new iPhone owners - just because you didn't experience it doesn't make it less real for those who did, if that makes sense.

Not everyone was at work when this happened. Many Europeans were home for the evening, for example, and yes - it impacted more than just USA users. About 40,000 or so world wide according to Apple.

I am not saying it is a problem, it is. It is a problem with Microsoft releases a Windows Update that causes BSOD on some computers and needs to pull it. It was a problem when Android released an update that needed to be pulled.

My point was, if you absolutely need your phone to be working for the next few hours, you should not update as soon as an update is available. This is a minor update, it can wait a few hours.

Again, I am not saying this is an issue, ALL update issues are problems no matter who releases them. But if you are in a critical position where your device/computer can NOT be down for a few hours, you should wait to see if there are any issues with the update.

This is why I mentioned Microsoft releasing WSUS for IT professionals. Businesses need their computers up whenever employees are there. It would be a major problem if all the computers applied an update that cause BSOD. If IT professionals have WSUS, you can verify and mark which updates to push out.

I do the same thing on my phone and computers. I wait AT LEAST for several hours and see if there are any issues. When Yosemite comes out, I will certainly upgrade right away, but I will wait AT LEAST several hours.

I am a tech geek, I need the latest. But I also know updates have caused issues in the past so I wait for several hours no matter what my device is.

Again, I am not saying this isn't a problem. This is just my thoughts regarding business phones having had their phones break with this update.
 

TheChallinor

macrumors member
Jul 19, 2012
55
0
The HealthKit app does work. What doesn't work yet is apps that integrate with HealthKit were kept off the App Store because of issues with the integration.

No, you read out of context. Apple said health would not work if restoring from 8.0.1 to 8.0.0 but it carried on working for me.
 

urbanslaughter1997

macrumors 6502
Aug 3, 2007
350
205
I don't plan on getting an iPhone 6 Plus so I don't really care too much about this "issue" however your analogy is really not accurate. If you crash a car and it gets damaged, that's 'sensible' for lack of a better word as that is NOT the intended purpose of the car (to be crashed). And we all know crashing cars can lead to damage. But having your phone in your pocket as one has always done? That shouldn't lead to damage to the phone, by following normal phone carrying procedures...

So you're saying you didn't watch the video. Watch the amount of force needed to bend the phone. The blogger's hands are shaking because he's working so hard to bend the phone. Those same forces are simply not the forces at work when you you have the phone in your pocket. So, to recap, if you exert undue force on the phone it will bend (like all thin pieces of metal), and if you crash your car it will suffer damage. Yep, the analogy holds up.
 

jrswizzle

macrumors 603
Aug 23, 2012
6,107
129
McKinney, TX
40,000 people affected.....statistically insignificant given the number of iOS devices eligible for iOS 8 (likely somewhere around 300 million - though I believe iOS 8 is at around 50% adoption....still).

Of those 40,000 people, my guess is more than 99% of them had access to a computer and/or Apple Store.

Chalk up another win for "stories blown out of proportion".

And the fix came a day and a half later.

Kudos to Apple for fixing it so quickly.

Oh and FYI to all those talking about people being duped into updating by the auto download and red badge.....I didn't even know about 8.0.2 until I logged onto MacRumors this morning. No auto download, no red badge on my phone.

And it's been out for more than 12 hours.
 

cmaier

Suspended
Jul 25, 2007
25,405
33,471
California
Of those 40,000 people, my guess is more than 99% of them had access to a computer and/or Apple Store.

My guess is less than 1% of them had access to a computer and/or Apple Store. Facts supporting my guess:

1) the affected people all did OTA downloads. If they had a computer with iTunes many of them wouldn't have been affected in the first place (because while people with computers nearby still do OTA updates, the percentage who do is less than the percentage of people who don't have computers nearby who do OTA updates).

2) there aren't that many Apple Stores. According to this, 34% of the people in the U.S. don't live within 15 miles of an Apple Store. The world is full of countries with even fewer Apple stores per capita than the U.S. http://www.ifoapplestore.com/stores/population_density.html

My slightly supported "guess" is at least as good as your entirely unsupported guess.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,459
40,000 people affected.....statistically insignificant given the number of iOS devices eligible for iOS 8 (likely somewhere around 300 million - though I believe iOS 8 is at around 50% adoption....still).

Of those 40,000 people, my guess is more than 99% of them had access to a computer and/or Apple Store.

Chalk up another win for "stories blown out of proportion".

And the fix came a day and a half later.

Kudos to Apple for fixing it so quickly.

Oh and FYI to all those talking about people being duped into updating by the auto download and red badge.....I didn't even know about 8.0.2 until I logged onto MacRumors this morning. No auto download, no red badge on my phone.

And it's been out for more than 12 hours.
Just because 40,000 might be a small percentage, doesn't make it a small/insignificant number. There's a important distinction between the two.

That aside, it doesn't even have any relation to the nature of the actual issue and its ramifications/implications, which are all still bad.

As for knowing about and update or being notified about it, your experience and even that of many others doesn't necessarily need to match up with that of yet others still.
 

Willis

macrumors 68020
Apr 23, 2006
2,293
54
Beds, UK
So I'm interested to know, if your broadband cut off for 2 weeks cause of a fault, would you say the same thing? Get over it?
What if your phone was your only means of contact? And now it doesn't work, what if you have a sick relative and the only means of contact for news is your phone and not messageing, what if you have a car crash on your own and you can't call for help..

All of a sudden its not a simple first world problem you can simply 'get over'

Yes. I've actually gone a month with no internet at home because of moving house and various situations that meant it couldn't be activated within the normal 10-14 days. As for everything else for a sick relative, theres a landline and if I really needed to, I'd go and buy a cheap £10 pay as you go phone. If I was in a car crash, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be in a fit state to pick up the phone and call someone.

All of a sudden, it appears you simply don't think about working out solutions to a problem, you like to point the finger at somebody else.

So come on now, give me a little credit for being a realist and knowing theres more to life then a god damn iPhone rather than a sarcastic response.

Technically speaking, at the beginning of the day it was a phone. At the end of the day it was an iPod touch. :)

Touché :)

But it's no longer a phone running iOS 8.0.1, it seems you don't quite understand what a phone should do.

Oh I'm sorry… was there not a work around to go back to iOS 8.0 and did 8.0.2 not come out within 48 hours? Not to mention the fact if you need a phone urgently enough, you can simply pickup a dumb phone as a temp for £10?

I'm perfectly aware of a phone should do and considering I'm an ACMT, I'm well aware of how to resolve any issues that occur. What is more concerning is that it appears you don't have any manners nor know how to use them.
 

jrswizzle

macrumors 603
Aug 23, 2012
6,107
129
McKinney, TX
My guess is less than 1% of them had access to a computer and/or Apple Store. Facts supporting my guess:

1) the affected people all did OTA downloads. If they had a computer with iTunes many of them wouldn't have been affected in the first place (because while people with computers nearby still do OTA updates, the percentage who do is less than the percentage of people who don't have computers nearby who do OTA updates).

2) there aren't that many Apple Stores. According to this, 34% of the people in the U.S. don't live within 15 miles of an Apple Store. The world is full of countries with even fewer Apple stores per capita than the U.S. http://www.ifoapplestore.com/stores/population_density.html

My slightly supported "guess" is at least as good as your entirely unsupported guess.

I have multiple computers at my disposal....

I always do OTA updates.

At this point, it's all moot. Problem's solved, no one was seriously injured.
 
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