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Because Microsoft, Android, and Apple can offer updates that cause issues. That is just how it works. Microsoft is the biggest name in computer OS and software, yet they STILL manage to release updates that cause issues. If it can happen with them, it can happen with Apple. So that is why I brought them up.

What is so horrible about waiting to update to iOS 8.0.1 for several hours? Why does this update NEED to be applied RIGHT NOW!!! If people would have waiting just a few hours to update, everything would have been fine.

See the problem with this logic is that they would have seen the problem if they had tested it on ONE iphone 6 or 6+. JUST ****ING ONE.

This is quite a big difference between releasing an update that has a bug in some edge case vs releasing an update that kills every single device.
 
And they never have for me, nor DHL or Royal Mail. My pre-9am & pre 1pm deliveries with them have always arrived. Always.

What's your point?

Cool. I guess you're saying that Fedex, DHL, and Royal Mail have never let you down, and therefore never will. Good way to live your life. I'm the same way. That's why I always ride my motorcycle at the limit on that twisty mountain road near my house. I've never run into gravel out there, therefore I conclude that there will never be gravel on the road. I'm expecting no problems, ever.

My point is that, actually, stuff happens. There's always a risk that things don't go as planned, and it's up to you to decide how big the risk is, which involves a consideration of the consequence if things go wrong. It's not quite as simple as you're making it sound ("should just work, period").

If you're "waiting on some really important phone calls", or "you really need your phone for business", then maybe you shouldn't update your phone at that moment, "just in case"?

Nobody is debating the fact that Apple screwed up. You can and should be pissed if you're sitting on a non-working phone, or had to jump through hoops to get it back into working state. But if someone, for example, lost a $1m contract because they couldn't make a phone call after their phone was bricked by a software update that they could have just not done until their phone wasn't mission-critical, then that someone is a fool.
 
Sums up the ignorance and naivety of tech users. Updates can fail. Welcome to the real world. Better learn to back up.
How would a backup help with the issue at hand?

The update didn't fail actually, the update succeeded, it just had a major issue in it (or eve a few). In fact if the update failed people would potentially be in better shape as the update wouldn't have gotten installed with the major issues in it.
 
"Coming back" implies you were once an iPhone owner. The iPhone never had a removable battery and never will, so unless you had the only iPhone on the planet with a removable battery you were never an iPhone user to begin with. No loss for Apple here.

you misunderstood him. he currently has an iphone, but has shelved it and is only going back to iphones once they get removable battery etc etc..
 
Sums up the ignorance and naivety of tech users. Updates can fail. Welcome to the real world. Better learn to back up.

Nothing naive about it. I can live with minor bugs and I can live with new bugs that some updates can bring. But since when has their ever been a bug so serious that has knocked out cellular connection from a phone?

I have a backup and I could easily restore my phone back to 8.0 but last time I checked it was going to take 17 hours to pull the software down. So err, yeah. Good one Apple.

And people like you are part of the problem. Apple should be slaughtered for this instead of having people blame the users. If you worked for me I'd fire you in an instant with that attitude towards customers.
 
We need Steve Jobs back...

no! don't bring him back, he won't be of much use in his current state. Just get another a**hole who is tough on employees.

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I'm not sure why 8.0.2 is "in the works".

Tim, please tell your engineer to use time machine and revert to 8.0, rename it and push it out as 8.0.2? Problem fixed? or am I missing something.

yes, you mean to say "6.0" rename it and push out etc etc...
 
I have a 6Plus with 8.0.1 and FlappyBird. The phone is *not* bent. This is gonna be a collectible in a few years.
I will put it in its box and buy a new one. :D
 
Harm was certainly done. To pretend otherwise is simply to ignore reality.

Hmmm....I had both phones I own go down. I don't feel any harm. I was able to restore back to 8.0 without incident and my life has gone on just fine.

Perhaps your definition of "harm" is different than mine.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem. And it was certainly an inconvenience. But to pretend like this was some great catastrophe is ludicrous.

Do we know of any reports where someone updated their device and immediately needed to call 911 and couldn't?

The answer is likely no. Because of all the devices that could be updated to 8.0.1, the number of people who actually did so before Apple took the update down is MINISCULE.

And the number of people who DID update to 8.0.1 and don't know how to get back to 8.0 is even tinier (likely statistically insignificant).

----------

Not everyone has an Apple Store nearby.

I'd likely be able to count the number of people who:

(1) Updated to 8.0.1 within the hour-ish window it was live

and

(2) Do not have access to a computer

and

(3) Who don't live anywhere near an Apple Store

...on one hand.

And all these people claiming it messed with their work because they updated a device that was business critical are idiots. What IT department goes through even the tiniest update process without first vetting and testing how that update will affect their users?

Newsflash - if your device is critical to your business, DON'T UPDATE IMMEDIATELY. I feel like this is pretty obvious, common-sense information.
 
I love OSX and IOS. Honestly, I feel trapped when I use Windows so this isn't a Microsoft fanboy rant.

That being said, one of the huge advantages that OSX and IOS has had over Microsoft products is the lack of legacy support requirements for all sorts of things. Legacy Hardware and applications are tough to engineer around introducing variables. As the products age and get more and more complex, they will run into more and more of the challenges that make Microsoft products such a pig.
 
Nothing naive about it. I can live with minor bugs and I can live with new bugs that some updates can bring. But since when has their ever been a bug so serious that has knocked out cellular connection from a phone?

I have a backup and I could easily restore my phone back to 8.0 but last time I checked it was going to take 17 hours to pull the software down. So err, yeah. Good one Apple.

And people like you are part of the problem. Apple should be slaughtered for this instead of having people blame the users. If you worked for me I'd fire you in an instant with that attitude towards customers.

Guess what - it is SOME users' fault. Those customers who updated business critical devices and are now complaining that it cost them should be blamed.

Common-sense here....don't immediately update ANYTHING critical to your business or life. Any good IT department takes time to implement even the smallest updates.

Apple definitely screwed up and I'm sure those responsible are hearing about it. Heck, their stock price is getting hammered today. But the window during which the update was available was relatively small, there is an immediate solution that 99.9% of those who updated can take advantage of, and Apple will have a fix out by the end of the week.

There's really nothing to be gained in crucifying them.

It was an inconvenience....no one died. I know in this day and age, being without cell service is unthinkable but humanity survived for millions of years without this technology.

Everyone just needs to breathe.....everything is ok.
 
Nothing naive about it. I can live with minor bugs and I can live with new bugs that some updates can bring. But since when has their ever been a bug so serious that has knocked out cellular connection from a phone?

I have a backup and I could easily restore my phone back to 8.0 but last time I checked it was going to take 17 hours to pull the software down. So err, yeah. Good one Apple.

And people like you are part of the problem. Apple should be slaughtered for this instead of having people blame the users. If you worked for me I'd fire you in an instant with that attitude towards customers.

17 hours?? You can't even afford decent broadband let alone me. :D
 
Hmmm....I had both phones I own go down. I don't feel any harm. I was able to restore back to 8.0 without incident and my life has gone on just fine.

Perhaps your definition of "harm" is different than mine.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem. And it was certainly an inconvenience. But to pretend like this was some great catastrophe is ludicrous.

Do we know of any reports where someone updated their device and immediately needed to call 911 and couldn't?

The answer is likely no. Because of all the devices that could be updated to 8.0.1, the number of people who actually did so before Apple took the update down is MINISCULE.

And the number of people who DID update to 8.0.1 and don't know how to get back to 8.0 is even tinier (likely statistically insignificant).

----------



I'd likely be able to count the number of people who:

(1) Updated to 8.0.1 within the hour-ish window it was live

and

(2) Do not have access to a computer

and

(3) Who don't live anywhere near an Apple Store

...on one hand.

And all these people claiming it messed with their work because they updated a device that was business critical are idiots. What IT department goes through even the tiniest update process without first vetting and testing how that update will affect their users?

Newsflash - if your device is critical to your business, DON'T UPDATE IMMEDIATELY. I feel like this is pretty obvious, common-sense information.
Just because you didn't experience something doesn't mean that others didn't. Just because you didn't find going through the hassle of having to do something you shouldn't need to do (restoring back and all that) doesn't mean that others didn't. Yes, harm has a range of definitions, it's not just one thing or another. You might not see it that way, but it doesn't mean it's that way to others. There was a large issue with the update that was publicly released, that on its own is harmful in various ways to various different parties (it's even harmful to Apple as far as their reputation and image, and yes, that's still called harm and that's not necessarily negligible).

----------

Guess what - it is SOME users' fault. Those customers who updated business critical devices and are now complaining that it cost them should be blamed.

Common-sense here....don't immediately update ANYTHING critical to your business or life. Any good IT department takes time to implement even the smallest updates.

Apple definitely screwed up and I'm sure those responsible are hearing about it. Heck, their stock price is getting hammered today. But the window during which the update was available was relatively small, there is an immediate solution that 99.9% of those who updated can take advantage of, and Apple will have a fix out by the end of the week.

There's really nothing to be gained in crucifying them.

It was an inconvenience....no one died. I know in this day and age, being without cell service is unthinkable but humanity survived for millions of years without this technology.

Everyone just needs to breathe.....everything is ok.
No they shouldn't be blamed, and no it's not their fault. They could be better prepared in general and could learn this or that, but it's still not their fault that something that was made available to them broke basic and important functionality of their devices.

Just because something horrible didn't happen doesn't really make something fine. Sure, I agree about the part about not going overboard and all that, but at the same time I don't agree that it should be downplayed. There's a fairly sizable middle-ground where it all can fit just nicely.
 
Well after over 16 hours getting sync'd my 6 is back up and running. The restore went smoothly but iTunes was so slow the sync took forever..

That was a royal pain..
 
17 hours?? You can't even afford decent broadband let alone me. :D

OXi78u6.jpg


I'd say the problem is at Apple's end, wouldn't you?
 
Newsflash - if your device is critical to your business, DON'T UPDATE IMMEDIATELY. I feel like this is pretty obvious, common-sense information.
Immediately? I think the question is, for the average user, what is "immediately"?

User looks at phone, sees red "1" next to Settings, opens it and updates. Do they know how long that "1" has been there? Has anything happened to them previously that would lead them to believe there was any danger to going up to 8.0.1? (By definition, a minor revision).

I can see how some people who don't live on these forums every day might have updated (just like they always do) without being aware that the update was less than one hour old, and certainly without suspecting it would break their telephony. On vacation? Away on business? Don't own a PC/Mac? Well those people are pretty much screwed as far as quickly getting back up and running. So I do think some users will view this incident very harshly, and in *some* cases, with justification.
 
Just because you didn't experience something doesn't mean that others didn't. Just because you didn't find going through the hassle of having to do something you shouldn't need to do (restoring back and all that) doesn't mean that others didn't. Yes, harm has a range of definitions, it's not just one thing or another. You might not see it that way, but it doesn't mean it's that way to others. There was a large issue with the update that was publicly released, that on its own is harmful in various ways to various different parties (it's even harmful to Apple as far as their reputation and image, and yes, that's still called harm and that's not necessarily negligible).

----------

No they shouldn't be blamed, and no it's not their fault. They could be better prepared in general and could learn this or that, but it's still not their fault that something that was made available to them broke basic and important functionality of their devices.

Just because something horrible didn't happen doesn't really make something fine. Sure, I agree about the part about not going overboard and all that, but at the same time I don't agree that it should be downplayed. There's a fairly sizable middle-ground where it all can fit just nicely.

(1) I never said anything was "fine". I've characterized this whole incident as surprisingly bad from Apple and an inconvenience.

(2) I'm not aware of any software that has been invented that didn't contain some bugs....now we can argue as to severity of said bugs, but the point is new updates will always have some bug that needs patching. One can ASSUME the patch won't break critical functionality, but that's different than being 100% sure. I don't know of any IT professional out there who would say you can ever be 100% sure a software update is completely bug free.

So yes, it is your fault for updating business critical hardware without first thinking about and accepting the consequences should something go wrong. At the very least, those individuals get no sympathy from me.

I don't think middle ground exists when it comes to Apple (it SHOULD, but really doesn't). Either the sky is falling or there's no problem.

I'm telling you, it was definitely a problem. I was quite perturbed and even had to completely start over on my 6+ because I went into the Apple Store early enough (literally 15 minutes after it went live as I updated right away) that they weren't aware of the situation and fix. He had me completely reset my device.

I spent my entire evening last night restoring my 6+ and re-installing all my apps (I have the 128GB version and loaded it with everything I could think I'd want....so it was a time consuming process).

I still wouldn't characterize the impact of this mistake as more than a semi-major inconvenience. Certainly no harm was done to me and my life was only minimally affected in that I was forced to reset my device.

I'm sorry - I just think people who act as though they've had a limb lopped off or like a family member has just died in response to losing cell connectivity for a few hours is just a little much.

The Webster's Dictionary definition of "Harm":

-physical or mental damage or injury : something that causes someone or something to be hurt, broken, made less valuable or successful, etc.

That last part - the successful part - could potentially be true. But then, see my first point about being smart enough not to update business critical hardware until you're at a place where its not critical for a certain period of time.

----------

Immediately? I think the question is, for the average user, what is "immediately"?

User looks at phone, sees red "1" next to Settings, opens it and updates. Do they know how long that "1" has been there? Has anything happened to them previously that would lead them to believe there was any danger to going up to 8.0.1? (By definition, a minor revision).

I can see how some people who don't live on these forums every day might have updated (just like they always do) without being aware that the update was less than one hour old, and certainly without suspecting it would break their telephony. On vacation? Away on business? Don't own a PC/Mac? Well those people are pretty much screwed as far as quickly getting back up and running. So I do think some users will view this incident very harshly, and in *some* cases, with justification.

I never see the red "1"....I characterize myself as updating immediately (usually within 30 minutes of release).

That "1" doesn't always pop up.....and for a minor update, the average consumer would have no knowledge it was even out, let alone care enough to update until after work or when they had time to do so.

Those of us who follow this stuff obviously know rather quickly. But I'd venture to guess we also own a computer and know how to restore back to 8.0.

I think the number of people who fall under the criteria you listed is likely a VERY small number of people. It would be interesting to see what percentage of the user base updates with an hour of the update being pushed.....obviously for major releases (iOS 5, 6, 7, 8 etc) this would be high because the release date is known before hand and publicized.

But point updates like 8.0.1 just happen.....even those of us who are plugged in won't know exactly. My guess is, the number of people who ACTUALLY updated is small to begin with. And the percentage of those people who don't have access to a computer or Apple store is even smaller....probably minuscule.
 
Sums up the ignorance and naivety of tech users. Updates can fail. Welcome to the real world. Better learn to back up.

He said they SHOULD just work, and he's right. When the flaw is this obvious, it should be caught in testing, not released to the world.

BTW, Apple just called me (on their own) to find out if I had figured out how to fix my phone.

----------

So yes, it is your fault for updating business critical hardware without first thinking about and accepting the consequences should something go wrong. At the very least, those individuals get no sympathy from me.

And he shouldn't have eaten lunch because it could have been poisoned. And he shouldn't have gotten on the bus because the driver may be drunk. And he shouldn't have taken the elevator because the cable might have snapped.

Or, he can take advantage of the fact that when a company releases to the general public a non-beta OS while it may be expected to have a flaw or two it is *not* expected to completely f*#( up the device.
 
See the problem with this logic is that they would have seen the problem if they had tested it on ONE iphone 6 or 6+. JUST ****ING ONE.

This is quite a big difference between releasing an update that has a bug in some edge case vs releasing an update that kills every single device.

Where is the ******* evidence that hey did NOT test on the iPhone? Things can go well in testing but not live. They probably tested it with the full iOS 8.0.1 instead of the delta update.
 
At least Apple realise bugs should be eradicated! My Samsung GS2 developed a media scanning big whereby it would go nuts scanning for new media and just burn out the battery and get hot. They (Samsung or Google) failed to put in a fix which left me having to keep it plugged in for 20 or 30 mins every time the phone was restarted or had a picture moved... This was in official firmware with no fix not even in custom roms....shocking!

That is why I switched to Apple and ios simply because Apple do at least look after us!
 
Immediately? I think the question is, for the average user, what is "immediately"?

User looks at phone, sees red "1" next to Settings, opens it and updates. Do they know how long that "1" has been there? Has anything happened to them previously that would lead them to believe there was any danger to going up to 8.0.1? (By definition, a minor revision).

I can see how some people who don't live on these forums every day might have updated (just like they always do) without being aware that the update was less than one hour old, and certainly without suspecting it would break their telephony. On vacation? Away on business? Don't own a PC/Mac? Well those people are pretty much screwed as far as quickly getting back up and running. So I do think some users will view this incident very harshly, and in *some* cases, with justification.

Um. I did not get notified about iOS 8 or 8.0.1. It took the phone all day to notify me with a red number that iOS 8 was available.
 
Where is the ******* evidence that hey did NOT test on the iPhone? Things can go well in testing but not live. They probably tested it with the full iOS 8.0.1 instead of the delta update.
Well, testing it on the iPhone means using OTA which basically uses delta updates.
 
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