Apple Says iOS Developers Have 'Multiple' Ways of Reaching Users and Are 'Far From Limited' to Using Only the App Store

[Nuno Lopes]

Sure there are alternatives to the iPhone / iOS if you don't like how they work - a wide variety of Android phones.

The question is not so much if smartphone user have good options, but if digital services have good options supporting their customers on the device of their choice beyond the App Store, case in case PWA. By good, meaning, comparable to other OSs.

PWA support in iOS is limited to a Link in the Home Screen.

 

[mrochester]

The question is not so much if smartphone user have good options, but if digital services have good options supporting their customers on the device of their choice beyond the App Store. By good, meaning, comparable to other OSs.

Surely digital services would have more options to access customers if they had built digital services for competing platforms (such as windows phone) when they had the chance?

App developers can’t complain that customers are only on iOS and android when they themselves only ever supported iOS and android.

 

[acidblood]

Sure there are alternatives to the iPhone / iOS if you don't like how they work - a wide variety of Android phones.

You buy a Ford car.

You then learn that others can’t sell you parts. There’s e.g. some sort of authentication chip requiring a digital signature from Ford.

However, the nice and friendly Ford will gladly supply this IC and a digital signature to anyone. All they need to do is pay a teeny, tiny markup of 30% on the cost of the part.

But sure, you can buy GM. That’s little relief to those who already sunk a fortune on a Ford car though.

By the way, when it’s put this way, it sure sounds like the Mafia, no? “Here, just pay 30% of your revenue. It’s for your... erm... protection”.

 

[gnipgnop]

A. Epic always planned on Fortnite being a multiplatform game
B. Epic's largest customer base for Fortnite has always been PC and console, not mobile
C. Epic urged iOS users to play Fortnite on other hardware after the app was removed by Apple

When you consider all of those things together, does it really make much sense legally for Epic to argue that iOS and iPhone are not in competition with other operating systems and hardware? Nothing that they've done with the game in question supports it. They never viewed iPhone or iOS as being their primary audience, but they did expect customers who owned different hardware and different operating systems to have access to their game.

 

[Benjamid]

Hah, then I'd like to see Fortnite running in Safari.

Give it 2 years, streaming of all sorts is acually a grave danger for Apple. It has already destroyed their music and video buisnesses. Now cones the AppStore. The law is as always to late. The AppStore has peaked already.

 

[gnipgnop]

Surely digital services would have more options to access customers if they had built digital services for competing platforms (such as windows phone) when they had the chance?

App developers can’t complain that customers are only on iOS and android when they themselves only ever supported iOS and android.

Developers, just like Epic does with Fortnite, can sell the same game or app on a wide variety of operating systems or hardware: PC, Mac, Linux, Android, iOS, Nintendo consoles, Microsoft consoles, Sony consoles, etc.

 

[mrochester]

You buy a Ford car.

You then learn that others can’t sell you parts. There’s e.g. some sort of authentication chip requiring a digital signature from Ford.

However, the nice and friendly Ford will gladly supply this IC and a digital signature to anyone. All they need to do is pay a teeny, tiny markup of 30% on the cost of the part.

But sure, you can buy GM. That’s little relief to those who already sunk a fortune on a Ford car though.

By the way, when it’s put this way, it sure sounds like the Mafia, no? “Here, just pay 30% of your revenue. It’s for your... erm... protection”.

You missed the first thing you do: you research which car you want, weighing up the pros and cons of each.

 

[Rochy Bay]

You do not own the operating system, if you want to install your own OS, feel free. Otherwise, live with Apple’s restrictions or do not buy into the ecosystem.

Except this isn’t what Apple wants. Apple wants people to buy the ecosystem. Therefore the misleading advertising. Also remember what the lawsuit is about. Apple taking advantage of its power and weight over the App Store which happens to be a huge market. Its simpler than it looks.

 

[jonnyb098]

Apple makes the majority of their money from their obnoxiously high margins on hardware. Apple already charges devs to be on the App Store. Their "cut" off the top for EVERY TRANSACTION after this many years is pretty ridiculous.

 

[BvizioN]

You're actually defending Apple on this one?

He is expressing his own opinion! What's wrong with some people in this forum board?

 

[mrochester]

He is expressing his own opinion! What's wrong with some people in this forum board?

He wants to humiliate the user into thinking his opinion is ‘wrong’. Nothing to do with having a sensible discussion of the merits. Although they have already been done to death so there’s no point repeating them really as there isn’t anything new to add now to be fair!

 

[I7guy]

No there aren’t.

Yes there are. It's called Android and there are multiple manufacturers who produce phones.

 

[Mike_Trivisonno]

The App Store should have two tiers: the Apple-Approved, politically-correct apps curated by their department of henpecking minions and another tier that just hosts apps without the mommy brigade deciding for you what apps are acceptable. Drop the fees and let developers pay for placement, and advertising.

 

[darcyf]

Hah, then I'd like to see Fortnite running in Safari.

It’s not apple’s fault that the experience there, or on a competing browser running on an iPhone, would be worse. They have a duty to make the experience they offer be the best available. Why should they be faulted for the fact that alternatives aren’t as good?

 

[darcyf]

The App Store should have two tiers: the Apple-Approved, politically-correct apps curated by their department of henpecking minions and another tier that just hosts apps without the mommy brigade deciding for you what apps are acceptable. Drop the fees and let developers pay for placement, and advertising.

Apple cares too much about the customer experience expose them to the minefield that an unregulated App Store would present — for every one savvy customer who knows their way around such an environment there would be so many more who would end up being bitten by unscrupulous developers just out to make a buck no matter the cost. You can go to the web for that but Apple won’t be the ones personally hosting and offering up such a platform, and rightly so.

 

[Mike_Trivisonno]

Apple cares too much about the customer experience expose them to the minefield that an unregulated App Store would present — for every one savvy customer who knows their way around such an environment there would be so many more who would end up being bitten by unscrupulous developers just out to make a buck no matter the cost. You can go to the web for that but Apple won’t be the ones personally hosting and offering up such a platform, and rightly so.

Thus the 2 tier system. One for the timid, and one for the adults.

 

[I7guy]

He wants to humiliate the user into thinking his opinion is ‘wrong’. Nothing to do with having a sensible discussion of the merits. Although they have already been done to death so there’s no point repeating them really as there isn’t anything new to add now to be fair!

There are two lines of thought for this one and there is no agreement between the various parties who have an opinion.

 

[darcyf]

Thus the 2 tier system. One for the timid, and one for the adults.

Plenty of adults would get burned by this. Apple prides itself on creating technology that is safe and accessible to the masses. Folks who prefer the Wild West have other platforms and device makers to go to, there’s no reason for Apple to risk their customers’ safety in this scenario.

 

[I7guy]

The App Store should have two tiers: the Apple-Approved, politically-correct apps curated by their department of henpecking minions and another tier that just hosts apps without the mommy brigade deciding for you what apps are acceptable. Drop the fees and let developers pay for placement, and advertising.

Why should Apple allow this? They built up the entire infrastructure and now developers want to reap the benefits of Apples' hard work without paying Apple for it...seemingly because the technology is at point where it just works.

 

[easy4lif]

here is Apples Achilles heel, yes you can use the web or Googles store or any other "App" store that's out there. The truth of the matter is Apple's customers are more affluent then most of other "App Store" customers. there's no shame in admitting this, for every dollar you make on these other app stores or the web, you make 10 on Apples.

In my opinion however, they deserve every dollar they make on the App Store solely on the fact that Apple has cultivated this Affluent demographic.

Owning an iPhone is like owning a high end sports car, any idiot can tell the difference between a ford and Ferrari. Same with phones, easily explains why most flagship android phones copy Apples aesthetics, specifically in the rear of the phone.

 

[Captain Trips]

You buy a Ford car.
[snipped for brevity]

Good analogy.

Here is another analogy that is car related:

• You buy a new car.
• You purchase an extended warranty.
• After buying the car, you add an aftermarket supercharger or turbocharger to your car.
• At a future trip to a dealership service department, you are informed that your warranty is voided because of the aftermarket supercharger / turbocharger.

Had you looked into what can void a warranty (for example, using an aftermarket air filter should NOT void the warranty in the US), then you would have known not to do what you did. You could have instead chosen to:

• Buy a used car - typically they don't have a warranty, or the warranty is so limited you would probably never benefit from it.
• Don't buy an extended warranty since you know you want a new car and you want to do something that will void the warranty.
• Wait until the warranty expires before you do something that voids the warranty.
• Try and find a car manufacturer that will not void the warratnty when you do what you want to do.

This is a real world example. I may very well add a turbocharger or supercharger to my car (can't get either as a factory option), but I will wait until the extended warranty has expired.

 

[az431]

Lies, lies, lies... once i fully paid for my device, i should be able to side load the software i purchase separately. Glad this is finally in court.

Is your device blocked from using the internet? If you were able to post using your iOS device then it's not a lie.

 

[az431]

Apple's completely out of touch and is point blank lying at this point. This is absolutely disgusting.

Which part is a lie? Unless I missed something, the point of the article is that developers can distribute apps to anyone via the web, or via alternative platforms such as Android. Are you claiming that neither is true?

 

[needsomecoffee]

I really do not understand why Apple Legal cited PWAs as point in Apple's defense. Their Legal team does understand the vast limitations of a PWA versus native app via App Store. This is going to be an interesting case for sure.

 

[fredrik9]

Sooner or later, Apple will be forced by a court or country to allow browser downloads on iOS like on the mac. It is just more of a question of when instead of if.

Browser downloads are already possible. You are talking about the ability to install browser downloaded apps.