Apple Says iPad Pro's XDR Display Designed to Minimize Blooming, but Some Users Still Notice the Effect

[Apriorista]

Hmmm... That's worse than I was expecting, but yeah that might partially be because of your profession. What is your room environment though?

Hmmm... That's worse than I was expecting, but yeah that might partially be because of your profession. What is your room environment t

Hmmm... That's worse than I was expecting, but yeah that might partially be because of your profession. What is your room environment though?

I definitely have a trained eye for color grading. The issues are most apparent in a dark room, but when the blooming
is noticeable, it’s very distracting. I’m
finding myself putting the iPad down and reading the Books app on my OLED iPhone instead.

Mini LED is a dead end. OLED’s already a fantastic, mature technology and Micro LED will be replacing it within the next 10 years. It’s strange that Apple invested in a screeb technology that is already inferior to OLEd and will be completely outmoded very soon.

I have a Sony A90J OLED TV at home. It’s arguably the highest end TV on the market, however I’m surprised by how much better the specular highlights pop on the Sony relative to the higher brightness iPad.

 

[Danae02]

I looked at the Hamilton scene that is referenced in one of the tweets in the article and in real life the blooming effect on the screen is not noticeable at all when watching the video, even in a really dark environment. The pictures make it look much worse than it actually is. The only time when it is noticeable- though not to the same extent as in the pictures- is white text on a very dark background. In those situations I can see it even at low brightness levels, but it’s definitely something I can live with. My 12.9 looks great overall and I am really happy with the jump in quality for this screen, coming from an already excellent 10.5.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

This is the issue with local dimming. It's not great in a dark room because you can really tell the difference between "black with no backlight" and "black with backlight".

The issue with local dimming, though, is that if you intentionally light one pixel, there should be a square approximately 4mm across around it on this iPad. I’ve seen similar on pictures of the XDR display, NOT at super bright, but when it’s dim enough for the cursor to be seen, the square of pixels lit BEHIND the cursor, and the difference between that and the zones that aren’t on. By the time you turn the iPad up to full brightness, there’s no one that’s going to see that 4mm lit square because the corona will blow out your eyes and the camera long before you’re able to see it.

It’s like trying the see the dark space that we KNOW is around the sun during a sunny day. It’s there, it’s ALWAYS there, but you can’t see it unless you decrease or block out the brightness.

 

[zappa2001]

I read this and immediately went to a basement room with zero lights to test. My iPad Pro 12.9” does NOT have blooming like this.

 

[LFC2020]

I looked at the Hamilton scene that is referenced in one of the tweets in the article and in real life the blooming effect on the screen is not noticeable at all when watching the video, even in a really dark environment. The pictures make it look much worse than it actually is. The only time when it is noticeable- though not to the same extent as in the pictures- is white text on a very dark background. In those situations I can see it even at low brightness levels, but it’s definitely something I can live with. My 12.9 looks great overall and I am really happy with the jump in quality for this screen, coming from an already excellent 10.5.

Agree, Looks nothing like these photos in real life, as soon as you take a photo or video of the screen it blows out the whites and makes the blooming worse than it really is, had mine since launch, she's a keeper, loving the deep blacks and extra contrast.

 

[IceStormNG]

That's a good decision for you, but the fact of the matter is that PWM for most users is not a headache inducing issue. You represent the minority. A significant minority, but a minority nonetheless.

That's not true. Not everyone reacts with headaches, but it's known that low frequency PWM can cause eye strain for everyone. Not a big problem for a phone, but even some regular monitors use it nowadays (with regular LCD). And if you sit in front of that the whole day, it will make your eyes tired more easily than a non-PWM monitor or one with a very high frequency.

I have no problems with PWM on my phone as I'm not using it for hours continuously. But on a monitor or an iPad which you usually use for longer periods of times, low frequency PWM is a no-no.

MacBooks also use PWM, but at a high kHz number. iPhone uses 220-240Hz. And some monitors (like a lot of LGs current monitors) also use 240Hz PWM.

No, thank you.

 

[Apriorista]

I looked at the Hamilton scene that is referenced in one of the tweets in the article and in real life the blooming effect on the screen is not noticeable at all when watching the video, even in a really dark environment. The pictures make it look much worse than it actually is. The only time when it is noticeable- though not to the same extent as in the pictures- is white text on a very dark background. In those situations I can see it even at low brightness levels, but it’s definitely something I can live with. My 12.9 looks great overall and I am really happy with the jump in quality for this screen, coming from an already excellent 10.5.

If you don’t notice any defects in the screen, definitely don’t go looking for them. You can drive yourself crazy scrutinizing displays for defects.

That said, the blooming in video content is less distracting than other use cases, like reading white text on a black background. Whenever I pause Netflix to look at the drop down menu, the text looks like it’s appearing over an eraser smear on a blackboard.

The other issue, in my personal opinion, is that the black levels in video content are still not particularly impressive and nowhere near the quality of OLED. As a consequence, the HDR looks less impressive compared to new OLED panels due to the lacking contrast ration. This isn’t a bad screen, but it’s disappointing.

 

[Yojimbo007]

Are you people sure this isn't BS from android fanboys and girls? The tiny backlights are very tiny. To bleed like these pictures show into the blackness is strange.

My old 12.9 does not show blooming anywhere near what depicted in these images…. I think this is bull and trolls are in full action!

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I had been wondering how big the issue was for the 32” XDR display for some additional context…it’s significantly worse than the Dell’s Mini LED from the looks of it.

One reason why it’s significantly worse is that it’s significantly brighter. (He IS comparing a screen that reaches 1600 against one that reaches 1000 or 1200). A brighter screen is always going to display a worse halo than a dimmer screens. They’d have had to decrease the Apple one to 1000 to see an accurate comparison of how they do at equal brightness.

 

[Yojimbo007]

This is the same technology as their Pro XDR monitor…how come no one noticed this on those displays..???
Plus my old 12.9 does not show blooming anywhere near what depicted in these images…. I think this is bull and trolls are in full action!

 

[IceStormNG]

This is the same technology as their Pro XDR monitor…how come no one noticed this on those displays..???

How many people have one? The iPad Pro is more mainstream compared to a 6K $ monitor without a stand.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Blooming = MiniLED
OR
PWM = OLED.

View attachment 1780656

Blooming+PWM = OLED UNLESS one doesn’t have human eyes!

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The blooming on this iPad is worse than I expected. In the case of dark mode in the Books app, the blooming shows up as a grid of large rectangles with very sharp borders against the black portions. Last gen had more gradation with the blooming which was less distracting.

This is a good description of what I expect the effect of dimming zones to be. Not these bright smoothly lit halos, but a grid of squares/rectangles around the content being displayed. You’re viewing it in dim brightness as well? (It’s my guess that it would be easier to spot the dimmer the screen is.

 

[EugW]

This is the same technology as their Pro XDR monitor…how come no one noticed this on those displays..???
Plus my old 12.9 does not show blooming anywhere near what depicted in these images…. I think this is bull and trolls are in full action!

It was already reported on HDTVtest that this Pro XDR Display is significantly inferior to the pro Sony display Apple compared it against. But that's no surprise since the Sony display Apple compared it against was US$30000.

IIRC, the overall review was that the Pro XDR Display was decent, but not a great one.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

This is the same technology as their Pro XDR monitor…how come no one noticed this on those displays..???
Plus my old 12.9 does not show blooming anywhere near what depicted in these images…. I think this is bull and trolls are in full action!

Oh, it was quite noticed Most of the examples there weren’t blooming from the local zones either, though I did see 1 or two representative images.

I think it’s been true for awhile now that the fruit that trolls love more than any other fruit is Apples, so it’s expected

 

[BeatCrazy]

This is the same technology as their Pro XDR monitor…how come no one noticed this on those displays..???
Plus my old 12.9 does not show blooming anywhere near what depicted in these images…. I think this is bull and trolls are in full action!

Told you guys right here

2021 12.9 Screen Shadow

If it makes folks feel any better, I see the same "shadow" near the edges of my Pro Display XDR.

forums.macrumors.com

 

[EugW]

This thread reminds me a little bit of a Sony X900H FALD TV thread I was participating in. I own both the LG C8 OLED and the Sony X900H VA FALD LCD/LED TV and I said that the Sony was overall a very good TV, but also that the OLED was much better, mainly because of the inferior blacks and blooming on the X900H. That didn't go over very well with the X900H diehards.

This is the same technology as their Pro XDR monitor…how come no one noticed this on those displays..???
Plus my old 12.9 does not show blooming anywhere near what depicted in these images…. I think this is bull and trolls are in full action!

It was already reported on HDTVtest that this Pro XDR Display is significantly inferior to the pro Sony display Apple compared it against. But that's no surprise since the Sony display Apple compared it against was US$30000.

IIRC, the overall review was that the Pro XDR Display was decent, but not a great one.

Correction. The Sony TV was US$43000 at launch. Here is the comparative review:

 

[vermilion_sky]

Same here: No problem at all. I watched the Jazz video at the beginning of the thread and there’s just nothing to worry about. Everything’s fine, quality’s amazing, I’m so glad to have the new screen. Since I’m taking photos and editing a lot, the almost pure blacks are awesome for color accuracy. Watching and typing here with the iPad as well - white text on dark background, again: Perfectly fine.
I really can’t understand this bashing… This is my first Apple device I ever own and I’m really, really satisfied!

 

[0194839]

We need screenshots not a picture taken by another camera. /s

 

[Darth Tulhu]

OK, I'll throw my "two" cents late in the thread...

1. OLED burns in. Period. We know this. EVERY SINGLE OLED device I've ever owned eventually burned-in an image.

2. OLED can make sense on short-term devices like the iPhone. They are used for short bursts, and they are replaced roughly every two years (I know there are exceptions).

3. This new M1 iPad is meant to be kept for a while. I'd rather have this blooming than burn-in, ANY DAY.

4. This issue is but one "drawback" weighed against all the other COMBINED reasons why this device is the ONE for me over older, weaker iPads or a MacBook Air:

- RAM (FINALLY!!!)
- Processing Power
- Thunderbolt 4
- Price (the same as last year)
- Ecosystem
- The OS (sorry iPadOS haters, I REJECT macOS voluntarily)
- The Pencil
- The screen size (bigger is better and I wish Apple built a 15" or even 17" iPad)

The iPad Pro is simply the better fit for me and what I use a computer for.

A MacBook Air or Pro just wouldn't do even if the Airs are cheaper.

 

[luy]

Just watch the first minutes of the movie Oxygen on Netflix and you see the blooming for sure. I own Oled Tvs and there is a big difference.

Anyway, this display of the 2021 is amazing and a lot better then the one of my 2018, but again, there is blooming, and there will be blooming, same with the XDR Monitor.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

This thread reminds me a little bit of a Sony X900H FALD TV thread I was participating in. I own both the LG C8 OLED and the Sony X900H VA FALD LCD/LED TV and I said that the Sony was overall a very good TV, but also that the OLED was much better, mainly because of the inferior blacks and blooming on the X900H. That didn't go over very well with the X900H diehards.


Correction. The Sony TV was US$43000 at launch. Here is the comparative review:

I know what you mean regarding the X900H.

I went back and forth hard with it and the LG C8 and I have to say that while the LG was noticeably better picture-wise, I bought the Sony instead. Why?

PS5 gaming. I am not dealing with burn-in ever again.

If I was just going to use it as a TV the LG would have been fine, as long as you don't pause content and leave it to go wash the car or something.

But nope, a TV is a very long-term investment. I'm not taking the risk of "pixel orbiting" not working as advertised (like with my other TVs) past the warranty period.

 

[cp1160]

They thought they can wing it and keep the price/cost down. OLED all the way.

Far too simple of an explanation...and if it were OLED all the way, several things happen. One, photographic and video color becomes problematic as OLED color wanders over time. OLED pixels slowly degrade too. So there is no simple single solution for all the issues and no commercial viable alternative at this time.

For someone looking at outputting 4K video or above, doing client photographic work flow, etc. these issues simply do not impact the user.

 

[falainber]

This is the same technology as their Pro XDR monitor…how come no one noticed this on those displays..???
Plus my old 12.9 does not show blooming anywhere near what depicted in these images…. I think this is bull and trolls are in full action!

Your old 12.9 does not have local dimming at all so, obviously, it does not have any blooming.

 

[smetvid]

Before people get all expert on a subject they just learned about five minutes ago I suggest walking into a store and checking this out for yourself.

All display technologies have pros and cons. This is not an Apple thing but a limitation of Mini-LED. If one doesn't like it after actually physically seeing it in person then you either buy the previous model which was already super fast or you wait and see if apple moves away from Mini-LED for the next one.

Simple as that. Trying to take these clearly inaccurate screen shots as some kind of face value and 1001 people giving their suddenly expert opinion on the subject is going to help no one.

when it comes to a display there is only one way to know if it will work for you. See it in person.

Yes blooming can happen. Its inevitable to happen when a zone is made up of something like 45x45 pixels. I don't recall the exact amount right now but you get the idea. This was a way to get an affordable XDR display on a tablet. Many will prefer that sacrifice to finally in their lifetime actually be able to see what the big deal is with true professional HDR content. Most of the expensive TVs people buy that claim they are HDR displays are lucky to have 600 or 700 nits peak. Sure they are slightly HDR but when we watch HDR content on those displays we are only seeing part of what HDR can look like.

Now this iPad will likely be the only monitor any of us will own in the next five years actually capable of the full HDR display range up to 1600 nits. This means the XDR iPad is one heck of a 13" HDR TV that beats pretty much any TV currently on the market sub $10,000. That comes with a tradeoff but not any worse of a tradeoff than any other display technology. If it is worse after you see it in person then skip it and wait for the next one. Or better yet pick up a previous model which will be a lot more affordable. If you really must have the M1 get the 11".

Honestly I really want one so I can finally watch true HDR content. I realize it may have some artifacts in certain situations but then again so does trying to watch HDR on a 400 - 600 nits LCD display. Its a tradeoff people.