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And yet Apple's somehow done this with the keyboard on the iPhone? They have an algorithm for determining the centre of your typing digits (and we learn where this is and unconsciously adjust our usage).

The problem is not precise keyboard input. It is how to make precise "mouse" input with your fingers. And how iOS solves this? Oh right, a 3D-touch-activated trackpad for precise positioning.

Try a touchscreen laptop once. It's a lot easier to reach out and get precise zoom levels when you are messing with the actual thing on the screen like iOS vs a touchpad.

That might be true for PC trackpads. Not for Macs though. I find every mac that I owned since 2010 to be more precise and natural to use than touchscreen inputs on iOS.
 
No, in my opinion, apple should put a trackpad on the smart keyboard cover, and have ios for the ipad pro support the trackpad in text intensive tasks like wordprocessing and email. That' s all.
Yes, that would be very good, but apple would have to put in a pointer on IOS. They really need to make a specific IOS for iPad.
 
The problem is not precise keyboard input. It is how to make precise "mouse" input with your fingers. And how iOS solves this? Oh right, a 3D-touch-activated trackpad for precise positioning.
You missed what I was saying. The algorithm that they use for the keyboard in iOS could be used for precise finger input in the UI of OSX. You don't actually have to change the GUI for touch. The behaviour for that input layer can be different from keyboard/mouse/trackpad. Different gestures could be used. Also 3D/force touch could be supported or not. You could accomplish the same functionality with gestures.
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Yes, that would be very good, but apple would have to put in a pointer on IOS. They really need to make a specific IOS for iPad.
I'd like to see the next smart keyboard have the capability of toggling between all of your Apple devices via a selection on the touch bar (iPhone, iPad, ATV, Mac) - already submitted that as feedback to Apple. :) (it would be a software/firmware change, so could easily be done to existing manufactured product). So, yep, they'd need to augment iOS to support the trackpad. :)
 
Apple might "applaud" Microsoft, if the Surface Studio was better than a cool looking gimmick dude.

Ever used one? The Windows UI is not touch friendly. Tiny icons etc. Photoshop is not touch-centric, and never will be since it requires precision movement and alignment. You don't get that with a fat finger, and using a pencil to manipulate tiny UI items like lists, buttons etc. gets tiring at best. It's a total piece of crap that just looks cool.

Try actually using one for real work.

The absolute BEST setup, would be something like an iPad Pro that's able to sync up with creative software to act as a digital canvass. Dedicated devices, for dedicated tasks. The UI on the iPad pro would be touch-centric, and be an extension of the canvas in your application.

That's what Apple should strive for IMO.

Actually, Photoshop works very well on Wacom Cintiqs via Windows or Mac OS on screen. The Cintiq uses multi-touch and the stylus to navigate around Photoshop or other applications. It's more or equally precise as Apple Pencil. I don't own a Cintiq but I know Wacom is the king of precision. Not just Photoshop, but Sketchbook Pro, Mischief, Clip Paint Studio, Affinity Designer and so on do very well on the Surface or Cintiqs.

I should know. I do creative work on my Wacom Intuos 4 ( old school model ) and iPad Pro both.

'total piece of crap that just looks cool' is subjective defensiveness. Apple is guilty of the same thing using 'vanity' design and form over function.

Wait until Surface Studio (2.0) comes around the corner when they improve on certain areas. Have you considered that this is the first time Microsoft has put out this desktop PC in years? And they did this on the FIRST attempt and Apple didn't, besides the Surface tablets.

Tiny icons, you say? You can change the icon and menu size on either Windows or Mac preference settings, especially the screen resolution.

And another thing you left out was the Surface Dial. Why did you not mention that part? The Dial is a smart way to speed up the shortcut process or customize menu-driven steps. One could zoom or rotate on canvas with the Dial or use fingers to do it.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/accessories/surface-dial

I've tried the Windows UI at a Best Buy store and didn't have a problem with it.
 
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From a (possibly cynical, but perfectly plausible) business perspective, all-in-one devices mean fewer sales. But I agree - one device does not fit all. It's just too bad Apple's devices aren't truly suited for their purpose either.

I'm still waiting, probably in vain, for a truly PRO MacbookPro and a watch that can replace my iPhone. What a wonderful world it would be (for me at least).
 
Yeah, touchscreens for macbooks are stupid... wait what? Apple already made something like this?

ipadpro_large.jpg
https://www.apple.com/v/ipad/home/aa/images/home/ipadpro_large.jpg

Quite funny that touch should work on iPads with keyboard, but should be horrible with a macbook.

Just create a macbook with a detachable screen which functions as an ipad.
-> Screen attached = macbook with macos and a touchscreen
-> Screen detached = iPad with iOS

Kind of how microsoft went with the surface book, but much better with two different OS

You're missing the whole bloody point! Man... people on these forms :) lol

Did you fail to noice the iPad runs completely different hardware, and a completely different OS aimed at similar but different input styles and tasks? Come on! iPad = very low power, much lower performance overall, touch centric, extremely thin and light. MacBook = much more powerful, not meant for touch, different OS with a different goal. You wouldn't become a full-time writer/publisher on an iPad, but you could on a Mac.

Why do you think they are two separate devices? Just "because"?

I don't get how so many people think they are smart, but missing such obvious points. Seriously. Move on to another topic already. It's really freaking tiring. If you want a convertible PC, go buy one of those cheap Windows convertibles.
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Actually, Photoshop works very well on Wacom Cintiqs via Windows or Mac OS on screen. The Cintiq uses multi-touch and the stylus to navigate around Photoshop or other applications. It's more or equally precise as Apple Pencil. I don't own a Cintiq but I know Wacom is the king of precision. Not just Photoshop, but Sketchbook Pro, Mischief, Clip Paint Studio, Affinity Designer and so on do very well on the Surface or Cintiqs.

I should know. I do creative work on my Wacom Intuos 4 ( old school model ) and iPad Pro both.

'total piece of crap that just looks cool' is subjective defensiveness. Apple is guilty of the same thing using 'vanity' design and form over function.

Wait until Surface Studio (2.0) comes around the corner when they improve on certain areas. Have you considered that this is the first time Microsoft has put out this desktop PC in years? And they did this on the FIRST attempt and Apple didn't, besides the Surface tablets.

Tiny icons, you say? You can change the icon and menu size on either Windows or Mac preference settings, especially the screen resolution.

And another thing you left out was the Surface Dial. Why did you not mention that part? The Dial is a smart way to speed up the shortcut process or customize menu-driven steps. One could zoom or rotate on canvas with the Dial or use fingers to do it.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/accessories/surface-dial

I've tried the Windows UI at a Best Buy store and didn't have a problem with it.

I have to correct you on this. Some Wacoms suffer from calibration issues. My brother is an aspiring comic artist, and is stuck in PC-land right now due to lack of $$ being a student. He's awesome, but he can't afford to switch over at this point. Regardless, the Wacom he's using has input lag and major calibration/feel issues compared to the iPad. It's a brand new Cintiq.

Here's a bit older clip:

The iPad Pro & pen input could use another update for sure, but in many ways Apple really hit the "feel" of the pen input etc. on the head is is way better than anything Microsoft, and in some respects better than the Wacom stuff.

The surface dial is cool - but IMO again, a little on the gimmicky side. Perhaps I will be proven wrong on that one.

I'm not saying Apple isn't guilty of poor decisions (I think their function row touchpad on the new MacBook Pros is silly). I'm speaking of the Surface Studio and how it's not as good as you'd imagine. Maybe better the 2nd time around, but they are on what version 4 of the Surface? My brother ALSO bought one of those - and returned it. I tried it out as well, and after 4 tries it still didn't hit the mark.

I don't trust Microsoft to make a quality product yet in any shape or form. I used to be a big Windows guy; Windows 7 was my last Microsoft OS and the last time I used anything PC for the work that I do myself.

I should add that I was excited to see the Surface Studio. I think it got everyone excited, and the concept is indeed really cool. What I think would be better than the hardware and software combination Microsoft can muster, would be something similar where you can attach a large screen iPad Pro to a stand like that and use touch-centric software with big beautiful UI.

Apple does it right keeping touch where it belongs.
 
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I've got the first machine on that list and it's not half-assed. I was very surprised but it's extremely Mac-like and has been very reliable in the 3 months I've had it. I don't miss my Mac much at all.

I think Tim wouldn't know the next big thing if it bitch slapped him upside the face. Apple has half-assed plenty over the past few years. The new Macbooks are the most recent in a long list.
But Tim isn't the only one working at Apple, ya know. Most of the people are still there from the Jobsian-days, and some of them at least wouldn't be shy about pulling Timmy aside and give him a little "history lesson".
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Got bad news for you from the godfather of turntables, Grandmaster Flash says Touchbars are for fools and poseurs:

https://www.cnet.com/news/grandmaster-flash-apple-macbook-touch-bar-djs-twitch-sxsw/
And half-assed, schizoid OSes like Win 8 and above are a better idea?
 
I always hoped they would do something like this patent they filed in 2010. When engaged into the lower mode, the UI would transform to have larger tap targets to be more touch friendly. It would all be bundled into the same binary for apps. This would be nice for graphic artists and illustrators who could use the Apple Pencil on such a display.
6a0120a5580826970c0133f34442aa970b-800wi

Microsoft is selling it now.
 
All we know is that the idea got far enough for Apple to produce some technical drawings and file a patent (something that they're doing continually). Doesn't mean it was actually seriously considered. Also, critically, it is for a touchscreen not for a high-quality stylus digitiser - which is the real USP of the Surface range for creative users (& is definitely the feature that MS are pushing in their ads).

Anyway, it doesn't look as if Phil Schiller remembers this patent either if his main argument against touchscreens is the old "gorilla arms" issue - which is true if you just slap a touchscreen on the existing iMac.
You (conveniently?) forgot the comment from the "roundtable" discussion theotherday, where uncle Phil stated that they had (paraphrasing) TRIED it. That implies more than just some drawings in a Patent Application.

And you have NO idea what the intended resolution of their digitizer was. The advent of the iPad Pro (which has a special digitizer that has higher resolution and 2x the normal scan-frequency when in "Pencil" mode) and the Apple Pencil tells me they very well understand the need for both speed and resolution for certain "touch" applications.

And BTW, Gorilla Arms is a real thing with the Surface Studio, too. I doubt seriously if it has that good of "arm rejection" when every fiber of your being is going to want to rest the "meat" of your forearm on the Surface of the Surface when it is in "drafting table" mode.
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It's not a rumour, it was confirmed by Jobs on stage at WWDC 2005:


http://appleinsider.com/articles/05/06/06/apple_confirms_switch_to_intel



What's your source which refutes Job's account?
I don't know if this is where I orignally saw it; but this is essentially the same story:

http://investing.covestor.com/2012/06/the-amazing-origin-of-apple-on-intel
 
Touch might make sense for some laptop users. But with my desktop setup, my monitors aren't close enough for me to reach them.
 
It's adorable when complete computer novices say "Apple can and WILL put a copy of an x86 CPU inside their ARM CPUs and ditch Intel".

1. They would have to copy every aspect of an Intel CPU. Every single circuit. Several hundred instructions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_instruction_listings) would have to be copied exactly, and bug-free, to have all of the Intel CPU instructions and extensions so that x86 programs behave as they expect on an Intel CPU, instead of breaking down and crashing due to missing or misimplemented instructions. So yeah Apple "just" has to steal the whole, exact Intel CPU design.

2. "Oh but wait, what's that? There's lawyers involved? You can't just steal someone's designs and copy their whole product for free and call it "Apple CPU ARM awesome lol wink emoji"? Oh? So Intel owns ~25 THOUSAND patents related to their CPU designs!? Oh dear." -- Timmy Cook.

3. So when Apple copies the entire x86 CPU and puts it in their ARM CPU and licenses 25 thousand patents and passes the licensing fees on to you penny pinchers, let me know how your $30,000 MacBook Air feels.

http://www.prime-patent.com/wordpre.../03/Intel_Patent_Portfolio_Company_Report.pdf

View attachment 695110
Then explain AMD CPUs.

Oh, and you DO know, BTW, that it is actually AMD's x64 (can't remember the actual name) Instruction Set that ALL 64-bit CPUs are running, right? Because Intel's attempt (IA-64) for the "Itanium" series of CPUs was horrible, buggy, AND slow. Oh, and incompatible with x86 besides.

I can't remember if there was a licensing deal with AMD or if Intel just "adopted" (stole) it; but dem's da facts. Here; learn some history:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64

You'll notice that VIA also gets in on the party; so obviously, so could Apple.
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Apple might "applaud" Microsoft, if the Surface Studio was better than a cool looking gimmick dude.

Ever used one? The Windows UI is not touch friendly. Tiny icons etc. Photoshop is not touch-centric, and never will be since it requires precision movement and alignment. You don't get that with a fat finger, and using a pencil to manipulate tiny UI items like lists, buttons etc. gets tiring at best. It's a total piece of crap that just looks cool.

Try actually using one for real work.

The absolute BEST setup, would be something like an iPad Pro that's able to sync up with creative software to act as a digital canvass. Dedicated devices, for dedicated tasks. The UI on the iPad pro would be touch-centric, and be an extension of the canvas in your application.

That's what Apple should strive for IMO.
Oh, you mean like THIS?

https://www.duetdisplay.com/pro/
 
Then explain AMD CPUs.

Sure, "Alex Trebek, please give me cross-licensing for 500 please".

AMD and Intel have a complete patent cross licensing agreement. Intel gave AMD x86 and AMD gave Intel their AMD64/x86_64-bit modifications. They have full access to use each other's processor patents. They're symbiotic.

All CPUs are covered by patents. AMD's approach was to produce more patents, so that if Intel came to sue them, AMD would be able to counter-sue. And they did this to each other. A lot. That's why they currently ended up with their patent cross licensing agreement.
 
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Steve Jobs could tell me what I want but he is not around now and the new guys are full of themselves. Just because they wear their shirt tails out doesn't mean they know what I want or need. Specifically: I do want a Mac Pro that is flexible. I don't want to do real work on a giant iPhone (iPad). I would like a MacBook Pro that has regular F-keys and various ports that does not require me to carry around a handful of dongles.
 
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Wait, what's this news today all of a sudden?!

surface-vs-ipad.jpg


https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...accessory-use-in-new-j-d-power-study.2040602/

"The Microsoft Surface has been ranked the highest in overall consumer satisfaction, and six points above Apple's iPad in second place, according to J.D. Power's 2017 U.S. Tablet Satisfaction Study."

-- Bu-bu-but... My narrative! This thread is my last hope! Please, I'm counting on the Apple sycophants to come back in here and tell the rest of the world that they're all wrong! A full desktop OS on a touchscreen device SUCKS?! RIGHT GUYS?! RIGHT? If there's one thing we've learned over the past 16 pages of this thread it's that you're always right?! You guys who are so full of yourselves know how much touchscreen operating systems suck, and how Apple are Gods for refusing to get with the times. Please rescue us from this insane customer satisfaction study! Please come here to tell me that all these people are guilty of WRONG-THINK for preferring Windows on a touchscreen tablet/computer hybrid and being much happier with THAT than with ALL of Apple's iPad and Mac models in the whole world...

Please save us and help computers remain what they've always been ever since we were born half a century ago... We all know that THIS is what a REAL computer looks like (and that nothing should ever change *rocks in corner* *rocks in corner*):

mac1.jpg


We can't allow all these people to know that they want a touchscreen computer, and to buy one from Microsoft since Apple lacks such futuristic devices, and then actually loving the Microsoft device more than all of Apple's devices. That's not okay. Big Apple and Pope Timmy Cook always knows what's best for its disciples.

Isn't it suspicious that this "customer satisfaction study", aka "propaganda" came out immediately after Apple just told us that they have no plans to make the type of device that's now rated #1 in customer satisfaction (a laptop/tablet hybrid with a full OS) in a study that Apple has frequently cited for themselves in the past. It's time to grab our pitchforks and do our duty for Big Apple! We must defend Apple's honor against the heretics!

The world outside Apple is obviously going completely nuts, putting touchscreens on everything as if it was a joy to use. And then voting those devices as the most joyful to use in the whole world. But we know better, here at Apple and MacRumors. Please everyone, come back and save us with your infinite anti-touch wisdom again. It was so enlightening last time.
 
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It would be willful ignorance to think they haven't been running OS X on ARM chips for some time.

There's been rumors of internal ARM builds since like 2011. The question is more about whether they'll deem it release-ready or let it remain a prototype.
 
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Hehe, well I just counted, I have 22 icons and I can only afford to hide these rarely clicked and mostly-static ones:

BetterTouchTool, 1Password, Alfred, Typinator, Spatial Sound Card, WiFi state, Bluetooth state, Volume, Spotlight and Siri.

So I can hide 10 of them and replace them with a Bartender icon but it hardly seems worth it. Maybe if bartender was free, or if I didn't need the icons.

I want to like Bartender but I think it's mostly for users that don't use the menubar.
Yeah I'm on ethernet at work on my iMac so there are a few more I leave active on my MacBook Pro. I only leave the sound one there now because you have to click it to connect AirPods. I'm not at work now about I probably have 10-12 hidden behind the ellipsis. I sometimes use apps with a lot of menu bar items and, especially on a MacBook, and they run into each other and cause problems. I mainly bought it for my MacBook. I used to use a lot of those iStat things and discrete/integrated switchers and custom fan controllers but one day, a few years ago, I asked myself "Why?" And I haven't looked back. I think it's because I came from the PC world where I was always tweaking those things on rigs I built and overclocked myself, and naturally sought those out when I switched. I've had far less glitches with my Macs once I stopped fiddling with things so much and let go of my need to be a control freak with my system.
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I'm SURE they prototyped it.

And you can see that they had already decided on a (shudder!) Metro-style "Tile" interface.

But obviously, it didn't "Focus Group" well; so they dropped the idea.
LOL, not sure if joking about Metro, but they often leave UI elements simple in patent filings. It's more about the idea than what it looks like. It's just supposed to represent larger tap targets than a normal UI.
 
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John Ive should be fired.

The Latest Macbook Pro design is a joke.
What is better a Macbook with a touchscreen or a useless strip that they charge $500 extra?

The only reason they do not want to do an iMac or Macbook with touchscreens is because it will cannibalize the iPad market.

Other than that are just lame excuses...
 
You're missing the whole bloody point! Man... people on these forms :) lol

Did you fail to noice the iPad runs completely different hardware, and a completely different OS aimed at similar but different input styles and tasks? Come on! iPad = very low power, much lower performance overall, touch centric, extremely thin and light. MacBook = much more powerful, not meant for touch, different OS with a different goal. You wouldn't become a full-time writer/publisher on an iPad, but you could on a Mac.

Why do you think they are two separate devices? Just "because"?

I don't get how so many people think they are smart, but missing such obvious points. Seriously. Move on to another topic already. It's really freaking tiring. If you want a convertible PC, go buy one of those cheap Windows convertibles.
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Reading is not your best skill, is it?
I want it to stay as two different devices.
 
Reading is not your best skill, is it?
I want it to stay as two different devices.

Reading is a skill of mine :) I see English is your second language. The first half of your post made it sound like you were for touchscreen Macs.

I think just lost in translation a little bit.

"Yeah, touchscreens for macbooks are stupid... wait what? Apple already made something like this?"
"Quite funny that touch should work on iPads with keyboard, but should be horrible with a macbook."

Your last sentence though re-reading it, makes more sense as wanting it to be two different devices: "Kind of how microsoft went with the surface book, but much better with two different OS"

Misunderstanding then :)
 
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Sure, "Alex Trebek, please give me cross-licensing for 500 please".

AMD and Intel have a complete patent cross licensing agreement. Intel gave AMD x86 and AMD gave Intel their AMD64/x86_64-bit modifications. They have full access to use each other's processor patents. They're symbiotic.

All CPUs are covered by patents. AMD's approach was to produce more patents, so that if Intel came to sue them, AMD would be able to counter-sue. And they did this to each other. A lot. That's why they currently ended up with their patent cross licensing agreement.
Fine. I understand Cross-licensing. But this actually means that Apple could license AMD's patents for the x86-64 stuff, and not bother with Intel.

And what did VIA have to offer AMD or Intel?
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Yeah I'm on ethernet at work on my iMac so there are a few more I leave active on my MacBook Pro. I only leave the sound one there now because you have to click it to connect AirPods. I'm not at work now about I probably have 10-12 hidden behind the ellipsis. I sometimes use apps with a lot of menu bar items and, especially on a MacBook, and they run into each other and cause problems. I mainly bought it for my MacBook. I used to use a lot of those iStat things and discrete/integrated switchers and custom fan controllers but one day, a few years ago, I asked myself "Why?" And I haven't looked back. I think it's because I came from the PC world where I was always tweaking those things on rigs I built and overclocked myself, and naturally sought those out when I switched. I've had far less glitches with my Macs once I stopped fiddling with things so much and let go of my need to be a control freak with my system.
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LOL, not sure if joking about Metro, but they often leave UI elements simple in patent filings. It's more about the idea than what it looks like. It's just supposed to represent larger tap targets than a normal UI.
I understand that drawings in Patent Applications are often "conceptual"; but neither of us actually knows if the Illustrator was drawing from an actual picture of the UI, or a description, or from looking at the prototype.
 
You (conveniently?) forgot the comment from the "roundtable" discussion theotherday, where uncle Phil stated that they had (paraphrasing) TRIED it. That implies more than just some drawings in a Patent

He said they had tried a touchscreen - not a pen digitiser, not a display that swivelled into a drawing board. He then went on to give the gorilla arms argument.

Wacom sell a range of (reassuringly expensive) range of LCD pen digitisers, so the concept is plausible.

And, yes, the Surface Pen (and even the Apple Pencil) ignore wrists and palms touching the display while you're using the stylus. The passive plastic fingers you can buy for regular touch screens don't compare.
 
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That is true, but working on a desktop I would think a regular mouse is the better option.

For scrolling, maybe (I'm quite used to the touchpad, and never need a mouse for anything, but I believe it may well be true for several users); for pinching, no.
 
I've got the first machine on that list and it's not half-assed. I was very surprised but it's extremely Mac-like and has been very reliable in the 3 months I've had it. I don't miss my Mac much at all.

I think Tim wouldn't know the next big thing if it bitch slapped him upside the face. Apple has half-assed plenty over the past few years. The new Macbooks are the most recent in a long list.

Okay, it's happening. I stated earlier that my only real reason for not being on Windows already is because the apps/OS felt so "ugly" compared to macOS.

Turns out that I won't have to wait long for Windows to freshen up. Microsoft has fixed so much of the core over the years (vista, 7, 8 and now 10) that they can now finally focus on modernizing the GUIs and adding modern translucency and shadows. And they're now aiming for clean, clear GUIs with butter-smooth animations.

https://mspoweruser.com/project-neon-windows-10-first-look/

(and an earlier article https://mspoweruser.com/windows-10-...e-new-design-language-codenamed-project-neon/)

neon-.png


Microsoft is creating a design language which "just works", across all devices, and offers a similar experience. This includes the PC, Mobile, and more importantly, the HoloLens. Project NEON will feature a fluid user interface that sports smooth motions and transitions throughout all of the UI components.

Project NEON will also focus on fixing inconsistencies that are found on most Windows 10 apps, including the ones from Microsoft. Windows Central reports that Project NEON will provide "developers with clear and consistent guidelines when designing their apps".

It's officially happening: Windows is soon about to be pretty much equal with macOS in desktop beauty, maybe even more beautiful depending on what your personal taste is. I really like the fresh, clean, open surfaces of Microsoft's Project NEON design. It makes the flat, gray slabs of macOS titlebars look dated. And it's clear that they're aiming for full touch and virtual reality compatibility in their app design. They're looking to the future instead of being regressive. After suffering with Apple through their last five years of neglect and lazy coasting, it's very refreshing to see someone else innovating.

Looks like I'll be a Windows 11 + touchscreen + Cubase 9 convert soon. Because Project NEON literally eliminates my last remaining reluctance about switching to Windows. The design is finally becoming fresh, clean and modern. They have great multitouch screens and pen digitizers supported natively, and have incredibly fast top-rated hardware with tons of upgradability. The value is incredible, and the hardware rivals and even beats the Apple hardware these days, and the software is finally becoming as fresh (or in my opinion even fresher) than what's on macOS. My Safari and iTunes look absolutely ancient compared to Project NEON.

It's very clear to see that Apple has squandered their once-leading position in hardware and software design. Who could ever guess that Apple spending the last half-decade with their noses in the iOS crack and turning a blind eye to their aging desktops would now be coming back to bite them? The weirdest part is that they're so rich that they could easily have kept their desktops up to date, but they just took people for granted while continuing to shovel outdated and overpriced hardware and completely neglecting the professionals. And what's up with the last few macOS releases? Nothing particularly interesting. Mostly minor changes. (And of course the obligatory locking out fully capable older hardware for no reason just so that they could sell their "newer" outdated machines.)

This is it. Apple has lost me. Unless something changes with Apple between now and my next computer upgrade in 1-2 years, I am going to switch away and start thinking different, since Apple has clearly stopped thinking at all, and are rapidly losing their last remaining advantages. Hardware quality and reliability is now equal or much better on the Windows side. Hardware upgradability, expandability and prices are a million times better on the Windows side. And the Software and software design is catching up incredibly fast and is about to overtake Apple.

Having modern hardware, modern features like touch and pen input, access to hybrid devices, fast and upgradable and expandable hardware and access to tons of new and advanced software is definitely enough to switch already. And many people here have switched. When the new Project NEON comes out it's game over for Apple. Software design was the last reason I was holding out, and I suspect a lot of us chose Apple for their great, clean and beautiful software design. Well, that's all changing now. Microsoft's new design language is super clean and beautiful.

Apple, you dun goofed... I think you can still rise from the ashes and catch up, but it's too late for many of us. You've already lost me with this lazy, arrogant and neglectful bs from one of the richest companies of the world. It's sad. And I saw many other switchers on this forum who left for the same reasons. And even if Apple does catch up someday, there won't be any reason to switch back and go back to the same locked-down, overpriced and outdated hardware.

It takes a lot to leave a company and an ecosystem you used to rely on and love for decades. But they've sadly neglected us for so long that they actually had to arrange a press meeting and speak out about their neglect a few days ago just to re-assure us that we aren't forgotten. Which is sad as hell. How does a company like Apple let it get to such a sad point?! If nothing dramatically improves in the next year (and with their lack of vision, it does not look like it will), then it's goodbye from me too.

Apple is never going to relinquish their control freak behavior. They obviously want outdated and disposable hardware just to forcibly drive new hardware sales. I am so close to done with these freaks for good.

There is obviously a holy book of Apple somewhere: Thou must artificially limit all hardware and software to force the sheep to constantly buy new and shiny things.

Maybe that lazy attitude worked when their software was still leaps and bounds above Windows. But while Apple has been coasting along lazily, the competition has been advancing rapidly.

Tim Cook is a terrible leader for Apple. No vision. All number crunching and coasting and apologies instead of innovation... Which is awful for a company that existed entirely on its reputation for innovation. Apparently they didn't even realize they had a problem until they saw the constant disappointment from users year in and year out. Sad to see Apple this out of touch with reality. They'll have to snap out of it and wake up again someday, but at that point it'll be hard for them to win back users. They've got a lot of catching-up to do.

However, their first step should be to stop believing the myth of their own perfection and infallibility.
 
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