Apple Says New EU Interoperability Rules 'Bad for Our Products and Our Users'

[mrochester]

Right but it fundamentally doesn’t matter because google’s argument will be that we are not a monopoly because we compete with iOS & Apple say the exact same thing in regards to monopolistic behaviors

So then what happens is for example certain governments then go after things like chrome

And what Apple are doing in regards to additional software for their products

You regulate to prevent companies from cross-subsidising products. Using the profits from one market to dominate another should be illegal. Apple does not subsidise the cost of the Apple Watch to dominate the smartwatch market; the Apple Watch is profitable in its own right. Amazon put diapers.com out of business by cross-subsidising the cost of these products. This was highly illegal.

Google subsidises the cost of Android, gmail, just about all of its products, using money generated from a separate market, advertising. This should be highly illegal as it distorts the market for operating systems and other products.

 

[Stuwil]

You regulate to prevent companies from cross-subsidising products. Using the profits from one market to dominate another should be illegal.

Google’s argument will be for example we allow OEM’s to use android for free
And that any partner that use’s it are free to put other app stores & internet search engines on their devices
That’s how they get around it plus as I said

they will also use the argument that they compete with iOS
And Apple use the same argument even people on this forum use this same argument

Yet we all that outside of Asia there is fundamentally only 2 choices so what governments then do is look at the 2 companies & say right technically your not a monopoly but your individual actions are monopolistic in regards to your platform

 

[mrochester]

Google’s argument will be for example we allow OEM’s to use android for free
And that any partner that use’s it are free to put other app stores & internet search engines on their devices
That’s how they get around it plus as I said

they will also use the argument that they compete with iOS
And Apple use the same argument even people on this forum use this same argument

Yet we all that outside of Asia there is fundamentally only 2 choices so what governments then do is look at the 2 companies & say right technically your not a monopoly but your individual actions are monopolistic in regards to your platform

Exactly, so as usual the regulators are targeting the wrong issue.

The reason we only have 2 mobile operating systems is because of Google’s anti-competitive business practices.

But instead of targeting Google’s anti-competitive behaviour and applying regulations to deal with that they are trying to apply regulation to a market player who does NOT act in an anti-competitive way.

It doesn’t solve the issue that the market has, which is a lack of competitive operating systems.

 

[Stuwil]

Exactly, so as usual the regulators are targeting the wrong issue.

The reason we only have 2 mobile operating systems is because of Google’s anti-competitive business practices.

But instead of targeting Google’s anti-competitive behaviour and applying regulations to deal with that they are trying to apply regulation to a market player who does NOT act in an anti-competitive way.

It doesn’t solve the issue that the market has, which is a lack of competitive operating systems.

But it doesn’t matter because even Microsoft tried to launch their own mobile operating system & it failed
Even with all the income that Microsoft has behind it.
So the only way is for governments to regulate both Apple & google

 

[mrochester]

But it doesn’t matter because even Microsoft tried to launch their own mobile operating system & it failed
Even with all the income that Microsoft has behind it.
So the only way is for governments to regulate both Apple & google

If Microsoft couldn’t compete against Google’s anti-competitive business practices, doesn’t that tell us exactly where the problem is?

Why are we hell bent on pointing the finger at anything/everything other than the actual problem?!

 

[Stuwil]

If Microsoft couldn’t compete against Google’s anti-competitive business practices, doesn’t that tell us exactly where the problem is?

No it tells you that no matter how much money you have as a company behind you it’s extremely difficult to break up the Apple & android mobile operating space.

There is a company out there that does compete with google & Apple but western governments won’t allow them yet they have about 900 million users

 

[mrochester]

No it tells you that no matter how much money you have as a company behind you it’s extremely difficult to break up the Apple & android mobile operating space.

There is a company out there that does compete with google & Apple but western governments won’t allow them yet they have about 900 million users

Then let’s address the reasons why that competition doesn’t exist so that we can get competing operating system.

 

[Stuwil]

Then let’s address the reasons why that competition doesn’t exist so that we can get competing operating system.

But your not going to get a competing operating system with android & Apple because of various factors

Like for example a certain company from Asia is not allowed to compete with the 2 of them in the west.

A start up company wouldn’t be able to compete because they don’t have the funds

Microsoft who had the money failed to convince customers to leave both android & Apple.

So because of this government’s can’t actually stop that because there are 2 competing companies however what they can do is individually regulate both companies

 

[mrochester]

But your not going to get a competing operating system with android & Apple because of various factors

Like for example a certain company from Asia is not allowed to compete with the 2 of them in the west.

A start up company wouldn’t be able to compete because they don’t have the funds

Microsoft who had the money failed to convince customers to leave both android & Apple.

So because of this government’s can’t actually stop that because there are 2 competing companies however what they can do is individually regulate both companies

That just sounds like weak sauce to me. These are just excuses to do nothing.

 

[Stuwil]

That just sounds like weak sauce to me. These are just excuses to do nothing.

Mate the only company that competes with Apple & android with substantial market share are restricted in the west.

Start up’s don’t have the money available to compete with 2 trillion dollar companies & the only company that could compete financially with them failed to attract customers & app developers to their platform.

So the only way is for governments to regulate their individual practices

 

[mrochester]

Mate the only company that competes with Apple & android with substantial market share are restricted in the west.

Start up’s don’t have the money available to compete with 2 trillion dollar companies & the only company that could compete financially with them failed to attract customers & app developers to their platform.

So the only way is for governments to regulate their individual practices

But how many regulations have governments tried to solve those problems? None! That should be the first action.

 

[Stuwil]

But how many regulations have governments tried to solve those problems? None! That should be the first action.

If it’s accepted that there is only 2 mobile operating systems in the west and fundamentally on the surface it’s not a monopoly because you have 2 competing systems.

Then there are only generally 2 options either let the Asian company compete with them in the west.

Or as I said regulate the 2 individual companies for things like chrome & software access to the operating system

 

[mrochester]

If it’s accepted that there is only 2 mobile operating systems in the west and fundamentally on the surface it’s not a monopoly because you have 2 competing systems.

Then there are only generally 2 options either let the Asian company compete with them in the west.

Or as I said regulate the 2 individual companies for things like chrome & software access to the operating system

It’s not accepted.

 

[Stuwil]

It’s not accepted.

What’s does that even mean it’s not accepted

If governments genuinely wanted competition for apple & android then they could easily let a certain Asian company compete with them.

However things are not going to change because said 2 companies are too big & have the financial resources to squeeze any new competitor out.

As I said before the argument put forward by both parties is look see we have competition & then point to each other.

 

[mrochester]

What’s does that even mean it’s not accepted

If governments genuinely wanted competition for apple & android then they could easily let a certain Asian company compete with them.

However things are not going to change because said 2 companies are too big & have the financial resources to squeeze any new competitor out.

As I said before the argument put forward by both parties is look see we have competition & then point to each other.

So enact regulations to stop them from using their financial resources to squeeze competitors out. That’s the whole bloody point of regulations!!! Jeez Louise.

It’s almost like I didn’t just say Google should not be allowed to use its financial resources to shut competitors out.

 

[Stuwil]

So enact regulations to stop them from using their financial resources to squeeze competitors out. That’s the whole bloody point of regulations!!!

What is it you’re not understanding

There is one company in Asia with over 900 million active users & they are restricted in the west.

Any start up that creates their own mobile operating system has to have financial resources to compete with Apple & google plus even if that’s remotely possible they then have to persuade said customers to leave Apple & google to take a chance on them again very unlikely

In reality it’s not going to happen because even Microsoft couldn’t achieve it with all there backing.

Again there is one company that is competing against them but are restricted in the west.

 

[mrochester]

What is it you’re not understanding

There is one company in Asia with over 900 million active users & they are restricted in the west.

Any start up that creates their own mobile operating system has to have financial resources to compete with Apple & google plus even if that’s remotely possible they then have to persuade said customers to leave Apple & google to take a chance on them again very unlikely

In reality it’s not going to happen because even Microsoft couldn’t achieve it with all there backing.

Again there is one company that is competing against them but are restricted in the west.

Sounds like the west needs some regulations to foster competition at the platform level then.

You keep on pointing out the problem of there only being 2 platforms. Let’s solve that problem. I’m not sure why some people are so resistant to having more competition.

 

[Stuwil]

Sounds like the west needs some regulations to foster competition at the platform level then.

Fundamentally governments know that in the west there are only 2 options in regards to mobile that’s why they can’t do anything about that because Apple & google are doing nothing wrong on that front because they are competing with each other and governments know that it’s virtually impossible for a new operating system to emerge.

So the only thing they can do is to look into the individual business practices that both companies use hence the regulation on Apple’s software for AirPods & watches

 

[mrochester]

Fundamentally governments know that in the west there are only 2 options in regards to mobile that’s why they can’t do anything about that because Apple & google are doing nothing wrong on that front because they are competing with each other and governments know that it’s virtually impossible for a new operating system to emerge.

So the only thing they can do is to look into the individual business practices that both companies use hence the regulation on Apple’s software for AirPods & watches

Is Android competing fairly? How much do smartphone manufacturers pay for Android? How much would another OS provider need to charge for their OS to be profitable?

These are all areas of concern that need investigating as to the business practices Google is engaging in.

 

[Stuwil]

Is Android competing fairly? How much do smartphone manufacturers pay for Android? How much would another OS provider need to charge for their OS to be profitable?

These are all areas of concern that need investigating as to the business practices Google is engaging in.

Yes but google aren’t doing anything wrong because they are not treating any company that uses android any different.

No company like Samsung are going to use their own operating system in the west because it wouldn’t make good business sense & no start up will work because they need to get developers to write apps for their operating system & that’s not going happen because it’s not going to be worth the company’s effort to develop apps for it if they are not going to get a return on that investment hence why the windows phone failed

 

[mrochester]

Yes but google aren’t doing anything wrong because they are not treating any company that uses android any different.

No company like Samsung are going to use their own operating system in the west because it wouldn’t make good business sense & no start up will work because they need to get developers to write apps for their operating system & that’s not going happen because it’s not going to be worth the company’s effort to develop apps for it if they are not going to get a return on that investment hence why the windows phone failed

Actually Google was found to be treating different manufacturers differently, which has got them into trouble, but that’s besides the point.

Is how Google prices Android fair? Is Google artificially lowering the price of Android so that it can dominate the market? Is the way Google prices Android preventing competitors from emerging?

 

[Stuwil]

Actually good was found to be treating different manufacturers differently, but that’s besides the point.

Is how Google prices Android fair? Is Google artificially lowering the price of Android so that it can dominate the market?

That might be the case but google are not doing anything wrong because they are offering android to every OEM for the exact same price so legally they are doing nothing wrong

How's a government supposed to stop that they can’t say to google you will need to charge this amount of money for android because google’s argument will be that would restrict competition if we charge for android where as if it’s the same price for everyone then that means more choice on the market

 

[mrochester]

That might be the case but google are not doing anything wrong because they are offering android to every OEM for the exact same price so legally they are doing nothing wrong

How's a government supposed to stop that they can’t say to google you will need to charge this amount of money for android because google’s argument will be that would restrict competition if we charge for android where as if it’s the same price for everyone then that means more choice on the market

The government simply says ‘you cannot cross-subsidise by using profits from one department to dominate another market’.

Then Google has to make Android financially viable in its own right. At that point, competitors have the chance to emerge and compete for business.

 

[deevey]

That might be the case but google are not doing anything wrong because they are offering android to every OEM for the exact same price so legally they are doing nothing wrong

How's a government supposed to stop that they can’t say to google you will need to charge this amount of money for android because google’s argument will be that would restrict competition if we charge for android where as if it’s the same price for everyone then that means more choice on the market

Put a physical price on the consumer data that Google utilizes. This could range from few hundred to thousands per user.

They don't offer a free OS, they offer their OS in return for data mining.

 

[Stuwil]

The government simply says ‘you cannot cross-subsidise by using profits from one department to dominate another market’.

Then Google has to make Android financially viable in its own right. At that point, competitors have the chance to emerge and compete for business.

Right but how does a start up compete with google & Apple because in the west they have collectively the market share & the amount of money both companies are worth they will just squeeze the competition
Just like every other big company