Apple Says Opposing FBI is 'Absolutely Not' a 'Marketing Strategy'

[macs4nw]

Samsung isn't a US based company, they wouldn't have to unlock a phone if the FBI asked them to.

This case will however have ramifications far beyond our borders. Backdoor master keys falling into the wrong hands, which given time is a certainty, could unlock iPhones anywhere in the world, i.e. by the security services of a democracy, the secret police of a dictator ruthlessly oppressing his country's citizens, or a geek living in mom's basement in Timbuktu.

That could mean access to all your privately stored data, incl. banking info, or perhaps details about your political inclinations, sexual preferences, employment history, marital woes, calendars perhaps with appointments alluding to health problems (perhaps even mental health), etc, etc, and then possibly used for nefarious purposes.

Additionally, US introduced comprehensive back-door legislation, if it ever (shudder) came to be, would naturally cover all makes of smartphones and tablets sold in the US, and most likely laptops and desktops as well, so I'd say Samsung considering the sheer number of handsets they sell, should be very concerned as well.

In the end, any such attempt by the FBI, if successful, will have global ramifications, and security forces across the world are already salivating at the prospect.

 

[maxsix]

But if push comes to shove couldn't Apple just take the phone behind closed doors, and work on it in their own secret labs and emerge with only a flash drive containing the data?

As secretive as Apple has been I'm surprised they weren't smart enough to resolve this secretly before it turned into a public spectacle.

Now the world is watching a fight that will surely entertain.

Will Apple cave in?

 

[dec.]

Well first it was unlikely they could BUT now they can ... sooner or later the truth prevails.

Can you provide a quote for Apple stating that it's "technically unlikely" to create a backdoor or where did you pull that "unlikely" from?

 

[Rogifan]

It's Apple's product and no, the government isn't a cutting edge technology company. That's just one reason they can't do it alone.

Apple is the master of mind control over their users. They've done a brilliant job of convincing millions that Apple is a warm fuzzy organization that's protecting their poor defenseless customers.

Even in the pre-iPhone days Apple Hyped Macs as the ultimate in security. Mercilessly bashing Microsoft. Karma has dealt Apple a blow. Now Apple's being called out and they've been backed into a corner.

This show is about to get very interesting.

The facts are Apple has provided iCloud data to the FBI. They've been working with the FBI to try and find a way to get the data they're looking for short of allowing a back door to the phone. It's the FBI that wants the public to believe Apple is refusing to help. And I'll bet the majority of the public doesn't even know this was a phone owned by the county and that this guy destroyed his personal phone(s) and hard drive. This phone had a wealth of valuable information on it why didn't he destroy it too?

As secretive as Apple has been I'm surprised they weren't smart enough to resolve this secretly before it turned into a public spectacle.

Now the world is watching a fight that will surely entertain.

Will Apple cave in?

Apple said it wanted this to remain under seal but the FBI chose to make it public.

What about the other precedent? The one where CEOs can just ignore legitimate court orders?

Apple has until the 26th to respond. They're going to appeal it. Last time I checked that was legal.

 

[chfilm]

I hope Apple will keep up their strong stance on this!

 

[maxsix]

Both parties have valid points.

Make no mistake, I too am very disgusted with the government. I'm no fan of Hussein, but there are some wise intelligent people on both sides of this.

Where it ends is anyone's guess at this juncture.

 

[macduke]

There was this idiot talking about it on the radio this morning. He had absolutely no idea what he was talking about and couldn't believe that Apple doesn't have access to their own customer's messages and other data. Nobody seems to understand how encryption freaking works, and once you start removing it you break down the entire internet economy, financial institutions, and open up countries like China and Russia to gain the same access to ALL iPhone devices, as well as criminals that will just install alternative open-source encryption tools on rooted Android (or other) devices. You also hurt American business because no freaking countries in places like Europe want to use compromised fracking American software and hardware. I mean would any of you guys buy a phone from China that you knew was compromised? It's effing ridiculous. They're going to ruin our economy, privacy, and lower the bar for oppressive regimes around the world. Like it or not, we set the bar for personal freedoms around the world—even if we are now less free than some countries! America is often used as the benchmark to compare against, whether or not we want to be.

I hope that if America does spiral down this rabbit hole of government overreach and reduced freedoms, some other brave country will stand up and take their place as the land of the free and home of the brave. My baby girl needs somewhere to grow up free and I don't care where it is! I'll do everything in my power to ensure her safety, security, and well-being—even if it means war. Bring it on, there are millions of us. Bring it on.

 

[scottsjack]

Well it is marketing if you consider that keeping iPhones unbreakable will sell more iPhones. In my case it will because I believe that personal, unbreakable security is essential even when it irks law enforcement. I count myself as one of those who recognizes the danger to the world that Islam presents to the world so I am definitely law-enforcement-friendly in that sense.

 

[Rocketman]

They don't care about this data per se. They only care about getting a tool to access all iPhones everywhere. Total information awareness per Snowden's disclosures.

I suspect they have over 1000 iPhones sitting there they would love to crack.

Cite:

The court order:
https://regmedia.co.uk/2016/02/17/apple_order.pdf

The scope is wider than just getting info from one phone.
Cite:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...-shooters-iphone-to-create-new-backdoor.shtml

Besides the President says it was workplace violence not terrorism.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...d-to-fight-against-terror-nyc-prosecutor-says

The New York City Police Department and the DA’s office used to be able to access smartphones both to charge criminals and to exonerate the innocent, Vance said. Then came Apple’s decision in the fall of 2014 to lock its products through improved encryption. Today, his office has 175 Apple devices it can’t access in criminal investigations, up from 111 late last year, he said.

You know with certainty this is a straw man argument because obviously the lawyer of a defendant will open a phone and reclose it for the purpose of exonerating evidence. Of course they would have to provide a copy of the relevant evidence to both sides.

To top this all off with a cherry on top, This President unilaterally retreated from Iraq, left $4 billion of equipment behind, the "partners" they gave the stuff to themselves retreated, and ISIS/ISIL walked in collected the equipment, and has been using it against Iraq and the neighboring countries and of course us, since. How is one investigation of a self-wife radicalized dead person worth more print words and TV time and Justice department attention than this obvious radically bad fact? And a State Department employee with classified documents including code word on a private non-governmental server? Hmmmm?

Rocketman

 

[dannyyankou]

Thank you Tim Cook for protecting the privacy of Americans and people across the world. Something that the constitution is supposed to do but I guess the government isn't good at enforcing it.

 

[Rogifan]

In case anyone is interested Fight for the Future is holding rallies at Apple stores tomorrow evening.

https://www.dontbreakourphones.org

List of rallies
All events at 5:30pm local time.

• Washington, DC
• New York, NY
• Anchorage, AK
• Phoenix, AZ
• Corte Madera, CA
• Los Angeles, CA
• Modesto, CA
• Palo Alto, CA
• Sacramento, CA
• San Diego, CA
• San Francisco, CA
• Santa Monica, CA
• Valencia, CA
• Boulder, CO
• Farmington, CT
• Brandon, FL
• Miami, FL
• Palm Beach Gardens, FL
• Tampa, FL
• Atlanta, GA
• Chicago, IL
• Metairie, LA
• Boston, MA
• Ann Arbor, MI
• Minneapolis, MN
• Ridgeland, MS
• Durham, NC
• Cherry Hill, NJ
• Portland, OR
• Philadelphia, PA
• Pittsburgh, PA
• Houston, TX
• Seattle, WA

 

[actripxl]

Apple says it has "done everything that's both within our power and within the law to help in this case,". Not true, they've been given a court order and have refused to comply. My problem is that if the government doesn't punish Apple in some way then what's to stop any company or individual from refusing a court order.

 

[-hh]

Apple is between a rock and a hard spot on this issue.

They have used security as a marketing tool for years... to give that up is a scary thought for Tim and Company...

Agreed: that there's money behind some of this is an inescapable observation.

Looking at this from just a "money" angle, what the FBI is requesting appears to have two major ramifications.

* The first is that they're asking Apple spend Apple's own money to go develop a new product (the hack).

Now I've not noticed anything anywhere that has said that the FBI is willing to pay Apple due compensation for the time/effort that this job would entail. Let's say for sake of illustration that this IT programming project will cost Apple $5M ... so why shouldn't the FBI offer to foot this bill?


* The second is the market aspect of the value of a product partially based for having the feature of "unhackable".

Similar to the above, the ramifications of what the FBI is asking is to damage their products' reputations, which if that feature is removed will ultimately affects product sales as well as Apple's Stock Price & Market Cap--- so has the FBI offered to provide due compensation for this too? For sake of illustration of the relative magnitude of this factor, let's assume that it will damage Apple to the tune of a 2 point hit on their stock price, which works out to roughly 2% of their Market Cap, which is roughly $10B hit ... and again, just why shouldn't the FBI offer to foot this bill too?


-hh

 

[yaxomoxay]

Not true, they've been given a court order and have refused to comply. My problem is that if the government doesn't punish Apple in some way then what's to stop any company or individual from refusing a court order.

Punish? Apple has the right to appeal such court order, and that's what Apple is doing. Both private and public entities (including courts) have to abide by the law.
If you don't allow such appeal you've created a judiciary dictatorship.

 

[rdowns]

Apple says it has "done everything that's both within our power and within the law to help in this case,". Not true, they've been given a court order and have refused to comply. My problem is that if the government doesn't punish Apple in some way then what's to stop any company or individual from refusing a court order.

Get your facts straight. Apple has until the 26th to comply. They are appealing the decision, as is their right.

 

[leon44]

All of us from the U.K are with Apple on this one. If the FBI get their way, I can see our Government agencies wanting in.

DON'T LET IT HAPPEN. RISE UP AND MARCH!

In the UK it's illegal to not give your passwords to the police when requested and you will be prosecuted and jailed for no cooperating.

The US has laws that protect people's right to not help the police gather evidence against them hence the FBI has to turn to Apple for help.

So we arguably have it worse already.

 

[guerro]

Whatever happened to Blackstone's Formulation?

 

[CEmajr]

Funny thing is that if the FBI gets their way and someone later there's a massive hack of iOS devices, I could see Apple getting sued as well as their stock getting pummeled.

 

[cdmoore74]

What's wrong with marketing safe and secure phones?

 

[sza]

Where are Microsoft and Samsung? If they stand up as well, it would make a bigger statement, saying that ALL the big players agree on this.

Samsung is not US based company and US government is Microsoft's big valuable customer.

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsex...its-to-upgrade-4-million-seats-to-windows-10/

 

[phillipduran]

Apple is between a rock and a hard spot on this issue.

They have used security as a marketing tool for years... to give that up is a scary thought for Tim and Company.

Conversely to not try and help the USA with their intelligence needs is a horrible choice.

Apple has no responsibility to do what they are asking. They are asking Apple to become a member of the FBI forensics team. This sets a bad precedent. Apple can turn over records that they might have, but to be forced to create a new tool to assist an investigation. What?? No, this goes way beyond. The government needs to accept that encryption exists and things can be hidden. They just have find information another way, even if this means it will be harder and some things will be missed.

 

[myrtlebee]

Tired of so many articles on this to be honest.

 

[phillipduran]

Quick, someone get a band-aid, the bleeding hearts are bleeding, again.

I don't think you're up to date on government intelligence organizations recent abuses of power. This generation of agents that are serving and in charge seem to have watched too many spy movies growing up and they think they are all powerful.

 

[macfoxpro]

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but whatever happened to that "device" that would brute force an iPhone passcode by turning the phone off before iOS could register the passcode? There sure was a lot of buzz about this "simple" technique a while back.

While we're on it, what about those hacking experts that put bounties for the first hacker that can crack an iPhone? Why don't the FBI compel those guys to help? I'm sure they could break into the iPhone in question before lunch.

The point is that iPhones are pretty much as secure as can be at this point. Putting in an alpha-numeric passcode would make it damn near unbreakable. We should all be doing that, and using touchID makes is so simple.

Yeah, alpha-numeric all the way here.

 

[DJ Dilbert]

Dear James Comey,
I'm sorry that your agency blundered this investigation so badly. I really am. I'm sorry that the county employed a man who turned out to be a terrorist and your agency was unable to figure this out in time. I'm sorry that the people employing this man didn't even use the most basic mobile device management protocols that would be able to help you here.

However, I didn't do anything to anyone. Therefore, you don't compromise my security and privacy simply because your various agencies fumbled this so badly in so many ways and now to be safe you want to peep into my windows. Using this case and playing the "Apple is a bully to these poor victims" card is shameful. Yes they "sell stuff." They sell a secure device which I purchased because it's secure. They don't work for law enforcement. You know as well as I do that there is a long list of other devices you also want unlocked. Stop lying about this being a one-time thing. Stop trying to force them to play forensics team for you, and for god's sake lock down your devices with proper management tools.

The American people would trust you more if you hadn't burned them before. Perhaps instead of imploring us all to remember the victims, you should look in the mirror and remember that you, in multiple ways, caused this situation.

I know this is a real conspiracy theory here, but anyone else wondering if the FBI and/or other agencies allowed this whole thing to happen so they could use the aftermath and public outcry to push their agenda for gaining new control over our "privacy" and data?