Apple Says Record 2020 Mac Sales Attributed Primarily to MacBook Pro

[UBS28]

Maybe people quickly want to pick up the latest Macbook Pro that still support Bootcamp before it is too late.

 

[Robert Dupuy]

Maybe people quickly want to pick up the latest Macbook Pro that still support Bootcamp before it is too late.

I bet some of that is going on. I have various computers but my daily internet machine is a mid-2010 MacBook. I really want to replace it but I am now holding out for Apple silicon Mac. I plan to buy day one.

For me only the Apple silicon Mac has compatibility- with iOS. Intel is the low battery life, under powered and incompatible solution. I doubt everyone looks at it that way yet, but they will.

I definitely have some x86 software but not much that didn’t already move to the cloud.

anyway, this reminds me of the Mac 128k launch. So exciting.

 

[farewelwilliams]

You don't know the meaning of the word objectively here.

Objectively, I'm using "objectively" correct here.

Would you make enhancements to something that wasn't broken?

Sure. Apple has done it plenty of times.
A13 -> A14
LTE -> 5G
LCD -> OLED
SDR -> Dolby Vision HDR
iPhone X wireless charging -> iPhone XS faster wireless charging

Hell, scissor switches weren't broken, but Apple tried enhancing it anyways.
[/QUOTE]

Do you think every "well known" information is on the internet? If you were CEO, would you disclose agreement contracts on the internet? The joint venture terms are standard template btw. Special contracts can be amended between Apple and XYZ company.

I think you don't know what "well known" means if you're using that "contract" example.

Joint Venture gives orgs priority repairs, including fixing keyboards. I worked at DIRECTV and had my 2010 MacBook Pro keyboard keys replaced (look at that, scissor switch repairs) within the hour, same day, of arriving at the store.

The purpose was to point out how you were not objective.

By saying things I already know?

Let me quote you again: "any worries of reliability issues for potential customers and eventually switch keyboards back".

And? I'm operating under the fact that the small hit on margins is far better than switching back to a scissor switch keyboard. Had Apple continued making butterfly switch keyboards, the only way to switch back to a scissor switch is a PC. A loss of customer from the ecosystem far outweighs the hit in margins. Talk about "well known" facts. 🤦‍♂️

Objectively, why would you switch keyboards if the issues were overblown? Wouldn't you have enough faith to NOT spend money to change your supply chain in these areas? Why spend additional money, because according to you, these are "overblown"??? For an armchair CEO, you have all sorts of contradictions here.

Issues overblown -> people got unnecessarily scared -> decline in Mac Sales -> switch back. It's very simple. Don't know how many more times I have to say it.

On a side note, the Alienware comparison isn't even a reasonable comparison here. You can go to HP, Dell, Asus, Razer, etc. With Apple, where do you go?

What? We're talking about reliability here, not platform compatibility. The fact that HP and Dell has the same OS doesn't really say much in customer trust in a company.

Thank you, again, for reinforcing all my points above. You say I don't know what I am talking about, so I'll just respond you're a shallow thinker. Hence why you don't know what tf I am talking about

"Shallow thinker" when you yourself think undisclosed CEO contracts are "well known". If a contract is undisclosed, it's NOT WELL KNOWN is it? 🤣

Sorry but, I thought we were having a polite conversation. But your last statement pretty much seals the deal that you're a troll. Going to end the conversation with you here. Have a good one.

 

[ChrisBos]

Genuinely surprises me it isn't the 2020 Air.

I think the fixed keyboard and $999 / 256gb SSD base ( I know, more would be nice but this is apple and 256gb imo is serviceable, 128gb is junk) is very compelling for the average consumer in need of a new laptop

I still have my 2016 NTB Pro and I appreciate the thinned tapered design over it.

The cooling system turned a lot of people away. I personally could‘ve gone Air, and had planned to until the issues there became apparent; I grabbed a Pro instead. Also told my wife to give her 2013 Air one more year instead of picking up a last gen Intel. I seem to recall a lot of people in the forums here also returning theirs.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Anecdotal evidence has some value, which means it does in fact move the needle even if just a little. If you think it has zero value and it's worthless, I'd say you are objectively wrong, but as you say, agree to disagree.

I specifically said anecdotal evidence "alone" doesn't help. Used in further investigation would help move the needle. That's where the value is.

Your experience and the information you got about the Segway scooter motor moved the needle already, whether you like it or not and whether it's enough for you to form a conclusive opinion or not. See above.

Moved which needle? As I said, need further investigation to figure out which needle it'll help move.

BTW I think you and I have different perspectives on what "moving the needle" is. The point of moving the needle from my perspective is to show a noticeable difference just from glancing at the needle. When you say "move even just a little", I'm imagining you're talking about using a microscope to see a needle moving 0.0000001% to the right which in my opinion is not what the saying is used for.

Agree to disagree I guess?

Unless you have more to add, my opinion hasn't changed on that issue.

My conclusive statement in my first post was that only Apple can know the truth, since only they have the data. This does *not* mean we cannot form hypothesis and we cannot evaluate which one is more likely to be correct.

Basically, only Apple knows the truth, you and I have different hypothesis formed by limited information and my hypothesis is more likely to be correct due to Occam's Razor.

I explained to you why Occam's Razor suggests the reliability issue is the more likely explanation. I won't explain it again. Agree to disagree on this too I guess.

My original statement that you said "nope" to is that you can still be very much wrong, despite the high probability, for the sake of argument, in possibly being right. You can be 99% likely right, but that 1% will potentially make you completely wrong. A "telltale" sign isn't conclusive and can still make you completely wrong. That's a fact and that was my point.

If they have value, they in fact move the needle, even if just slightly.

See above.

And you have been explained why your explanation for the program doesn't hold much water and even if it did would be the less likely explanation anyway. Again, I won't explain again, agree to disagree if you wish.

I think you're confused. Please point to a specific quote of where I supposedly said it doesn't hold much water so I can address this confusion.

This site alone reported on that multiple times, meaning that the reliability of the keyboard was, at least from MacRumors' point of view, by definition "noteworthy". Other very reputable sites reported on that too.

Which I explained that the growth in users gave a megaphone for customers to shout about defects that would have been entirely possible with the scissor switches, considering the 10% defect rate.

I explained already why the more likely explanation for that is that the keyboard had actual unreliability issues instead of alternative hypothesis.

Then we'll agree to disagree.

AntennaGate got attention because there actually was an issue: Apple actually knew about this, since one of their engineers raised the issue internally and Apple actually issued an informative to their users about how to grip the phone during a call to prevent the issue. Consumer Reports did perform independent tests and did confirm the issue themselves.

I didn't say there weren't antenna issues. Don't put words in my mouth.

Samsung had the same antenna issue before the iPhone 4 came out, yet many people *only* attribute Antennagate to iPhones. Simply pointing out the new phenomenon in social media overblowing issues in new technology and designs despite the fact that issues were apparent older devices.

BendGate got attention because there actually was an issue: Apple's internal documents revealed they did identify the issue as a major concern even before they launched the devices.

TL;DR: if an issue in a product becomes newsworthy, the more likely explanation is that the issue is real (which by the way basically summarizes the whole point...).

See above. Didn't say the issue didn't exist. You're putting words in my mouth and you're missing the point.

If there are claims that your new butterfly switch has reliability issues and you have the data to back up that it does not, you would disclose the data and defend the reputation of your company as producer of reliable products. This is not related to user's preference, but to your reputation as hardware company.

But I won't question further your strategy as CEO, agree to disagree on this too.

If Tim released the data, the headlines on The Verge could potentially be "You're typing it wrong, Apple says". Maybe it could be a trade secret as well as other companies are deciding whether they should copy butterfly switches or not (at the time in 2018). There are many reasons for and against releasing the data that a CEO would have to evaluate.

Yep, that's what IMHO means: "In My Humble Opinion".

I'd say we'll agree to disagree in general at this point.

It's very odd that I specifically stated it was an "opinion", yet you felt the need to spell out what IMHO is. Sounds condescending.

It sounds like you're tired from this discussion since you seem to end a lot of counter-points with "agree to disagree" and it feels like you absolutely want to have the last word with everything so feel free to reply. I won't provide a counter response. Have a good one.

 

[bsolar]

I specifically said anecdotal evidence "alone" doesn't help. Used in further investigation would help move the needle. That's where the value is.

You are still wrong. Anecdotal evidence can have value in itself. Further investigation is of course welcome, but it's not that value is only in the investigation as you seem to try to imply.

My original statement that you said "nope" to is that you can still be very much wrong, despite the high probability, for the sake of argument, in possibly being right. You can be 99% likely right, but that 1% will potentially make you completely wrong. A "telltale" sign isn't conclusive and can still make you completely wrong. That's a fact and that was my point.

Your original statement was: "That pretty much says you're just as potentially wrong as I am.". If I'm more likely to be right than you, I'm not "just as potentially wrong". "Just as potentially wrong" describes a 50-50 situation, which is not the case here.

I think you're confused. Please point to a specific quote of where I supposedly said it doesn't hold much water so I can address this confusion.

It's not you who said your explanation doesn't hold water, it's me, pointing out that issuing a repair program mainly for PR reasons doesn't make much sense, because the last thing an hardware company wants is giving the impression that they produce unreliable products.

Which I explained that the growth in users gave a megaphone for customers to shout about defects that would have been entirely possible with the scissor switches, considering the 10% defect rate.

Which is a less likely explanation than users report reliablity issues because there are reliablity issues, so, without further indicators pointing at your explanation, let's go with the more likely explanation.

I didn't say there weren't antenna issues. Don't put words in my mouth.

Never said you didn't. Don't you put words in my mouth.

See above. Didn't say the issue didn't exist. You're putting words in my mouth and you're missing the point.

See above too, and you are missing the point.

The point is that when users report issues, the more likely explanation is that there are issues. AntennaGate and BendGate are good example of that.

With the keyboard is the same: when users report keyboard reliability issues, guess what? Likely, the keyboard has reliability issues.

It's very odd that I specifically stated it was an "opinion", yet you felt the need to spell out what IMHO is. Sounds condescending.

It is not odd, it's a direct response to your "Here we go again..."zero chance"...yet no data to back that up.". If I preface the claim with "IMHO" it's clear that I'm providing a personal opinion. If you mention lack of "data to back that up" it's perfectly reasonable for me to think that you have no idea what "IMHO" means.

It sounds like you're tired from this discussion since you seem to end a lot of counter-points with "agree to disagree" and it feels like you absolutely want to have the last word with everything so feel free to reply. I won't provide a counter response. Have a good one.

I'm tired with BS explanations of a very straightforward matter: users reported reliability issues, teardowns highlighted susceptibility to reliability issues, Apple tried to improve the design, eventually reverted to a previous design.

All the signs point clearly at a very simple explanation, yet the argument is that it's overblown, it's the social media megaphone's fault, when Apple apologizes to users and issues a repair program it's PR, etc...

Let's get back to reality: when a significant number of users report reliability issues, there are likely reliability issues.

Actually I think there is a Class Action against Apple for the butterfly keyboard fiasco, so maybe we will get verifiable evidence soon or later. In the AntennaGate/BendGate case the evidence confirmed the issues, I wonder what the evidence would say in the butterfly keyboard case...

 

[cashville2400]

I love my 13'' Macbook Pro 16gb ram/1 TB. I have had it a few months and I really love the keyboard too. I hope to have this for many years to come.

 

[TheWatchfulOne]

doesn't work.

EDIT
it *seems* to work when i hold the files with index finger, then use middle, ring and pinky to swipe up, but for some reason it requires a wide swipe from bottom of trackpad to the top to make mission control appear. and when I cancel my mission control, my drag pointer is no longer able to move.

that's not really feasible to do IMO.

You know what, I didn't think of people using a different setup than me. I use a Magic Mouse and Magic Trackpad. (MacBook Pro is in clamshell mode connected to a 27" display.) I click and hold a file with the mouse, and my other had is free to swipe up on the track pad. The software will handle it, but I see you do need to right hardware to make it feasible.

 

[vixster1901]

See what happens when there's a usable keyboard !

 

[Jury]

There have been rumors about Apple dumping Intel for a while and now we have this report of recent record sales for a Intel MacBook Pro that is being phased out. I think Apple should just stick to Intel/AMD. I am just not feeling this move to Apple silicon. The iPhone and iPad's are great, but on a desktop I feel you lose too much flexibility with dual booting and the amount of Apps that are out there. It's going to get even more closed.

Also, you know 1st generation Apple products are typically horrendous and this is going to fragment their laptop line.

I would buy a MacBook Pro 16" right now if they were not dumping Intel.

If Apple wishes to have another stellar 9B of mac sales revenue then it is going to support ARM version Microsoft OS with emulation.

 

[il_teo77]

I think many also anticipated purchase of Intel Macs because they have to run Windows and are afraid they won't be able to with Apple Silicon.

 

[ipponrg]

Sure. Apple has done it plenty of times.
A13 -> A14
LTE -> 5G
LCD -> OLED
SDR -> Dolby Vision HDR
iPhone X wireless charging -> iPhone XS faster wireless charging

Hell, scissor switches weren't broken, but Apple tried enhancing it anyways.

You don't seem to be able to differentiate a technology advancement vs mitigating a problem (enhancement). One of the small but significant updates the keyboards received was an additional membrane. No, the membrane is not a technology advancement. It was designed to reduce noise and prevent debris from getting it. Does that sound like an enhancement or an advancement?

think you don't know what "well known" means if you're using that "contract" example.

Joint Venture gives orgs priority repairs, including fixing keyboards. I worked at DIRECTV and had my 2010 MacBook Pro keyboard keys replaced (look at that, scissor switch repairs) within the hour, same day, of arriving at the store.

That's great that you had a 2010 MBP repaired in a timely manner which is a completely meaningless rhetoric. We're talking 2016 to 2018 MBPs specifically, not 2010 MBP. If you're going to provide a rhetoric, make sure it's at least relevant to the topic at hand. Don't need more straw man responses

And? I'm operating under the fact that the small hit on margins is far better than switching back to a scissor switch keyboard. Had Apple continued making butterfly switch keyboards, the only way to switch back to a scissor switch is a PC. A loss of customer from the ecosystem far outweighs the hit in margins. Talk about "well known" facts

Thank you for reinforcing what I said.

Issues overblown -> people got unnecessarily scared -> decline in Mac Sales -> switch back. It's very simple. Don't know how many more times I have to say it.

If the issues were overblown, then you would stand on your 2 feet defending your stance without having to create such a program. It can't be anymore simple here.

Let's ignore all the other elephants in the room because you keep implying you don't know what the big elephants are

What? We're talking about reliability here, not platform compatibility. The fact that HP and Dell has the same OS doesn't really say much in customer trust in a company.

Why bring up something that is objectively irrelevant and dissimilar?

"Shallow thinker" when you yourself think undisclosed CEO contracts are "well known". If a contract is undisclosed, it's NOT WELL KNOWN is it? 🤣

Sorry but, I thought we were having a polite conversation. But your last statement pretty much seals the deal that you're a troll. Going to end the conversation with you here. Have a good one.

"Well known" doesn't mean that you know it. Have you ever considered that you're not in the affected pool of users and haven't had to deal with it? I suppose multiple outlets exposing these issues and Apple's responses are not enough for you to know about it. It kind of makes sense now when you rationalize it that way.

I don't think we're having a "polite" conversation here. You're provoking (maybe trolling) people with your naive anecdotes and straw man fallacies.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I think many also anticipated purchase of Intel Macs because they have to run Windows and are afraid they won't be able to with Apple Silicon.

Very few need to run Windows. Those that do, didn’t have to buy a new Intel Mac this year. Mainly because the computer they have ALREADY runs Windows.

 

[recoil80]

Happy user of a 16" MBP bought at the beginning of the crisis when we were forced to work from home.
My only regret is I had to buy the model they had in stock, the one with 1TB of storage and 8 cores. I wanted to upgrade to 32 or RAM but delivery time changed from next day to 6 weeks, so I had to take what was ready to ship as I didn't want to wait more than a month.
I bought another keyboard, a display and many other stuff. No surprise this year has been huge for PC manufacturers.

 

[icanhazmac]

Very few need to run Windows. Those that do, didn’t have to buy a new Intel Mac this year. Mainly because the computer they have ALREADY runs Windows.

Yes, certainly no one running bootcamp had an older macbook in need of replacing.

The potential loss of bootcamp and/or virtualizations is mentioned a fair bit in most Apple Silicon or MacBook Pro threads as people decide if they are going to try to "ride it out" with their older MBP or if the buy a new (last intel) MBP so they have more time to see what the AS world looks like for them. I'm one of them, my 2017 is a dumpster fire and I wanted to buy a 16" but with all the external monitor / heat issues I didn't, if they announce a refresh tomorrow with the 5600 as the base I will probably buy.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Yes, certainly no one running bootcamp had an older macbook in need of replacing.

There are absolutely people out there running bootcamp. Perhaps even as many as 10 million (maybe even less as a lot of folks that need boot camp dumped Apple for Windows PC awhile back). However, compared to the size of the ENTIRE macOS user base (which in 2018 was 100 million), they are a fairly small percentage. However, these people are technically savvy, frequent message boards like this one and this is a BIG deal to them. So you’ll hear from them. But, one should never equate Mac forum threads for the general Mac purchasing public or even the general Apple purchasing public.