Apple Says Record 2020 Mac Sales Attributed Primarily to MacBook Pro

[JimmyBanks6]

You can try using anecdotal points, but you won't conclude anything with it. It doesn't move the needle one way or the other.

I've had issues with my old Alienware X51 R2. Had it replaced 7+ times (have the receipts for all replacements). Looking online, there are many reports of overheating and random shutdown issues. Was a design failure? I want to say yes, but thinking objectively, I can't say yes or no without hard data.



That pretty much says you're just as potentially wrong as I am. See above.



"Far-fetched" is subjective.

Again, anecdotal points cannot possibly move the needle significantly one way or the other without additional data. "Significant anecdotal evidence" isn't scientific at all.

You want to believe it so much that it is a design fault but it's entirely possible Apple replaced the design because people simply didn't like it. People vote with their wallets and Apple listened.



According to a report by Consumer Reports 2016 (I don't have the link anymore as I'm no longer a CR subscriber, but I can point you to a publication that reported on this), Apple has a 10% breakage rate by the end of a 2nd year of ownership.

Butterfly switch MacBooks were sold since 2015. Apple sells about 18 million Macs per year, but let's just say 10 million per year are MacBooks with butterfly switches (that's being conservative, Apple says MacBooks are the most popular Macs they sell). That's 50 million MacBooks with butterfly switches. That's about 5 million broken MacBooks out there in the world right now.

So at a 10% failure rate, 5 million MacBooks are bound to have MANY reports of keyboard failures, especially when each of those 78 keys are a movable part compared to, say, a camera.

So when you ask "why there are so many reports of unreliability", there's your answer. This is objective.

I can hypothesize that the combination of these reasons is why keyboard issues are overblown:
- It's a new piece of technology and therefore gave people a thing to blame
- People generally don't like the feel of the keys and therefore have an overall negative feel to the keyboard
- Social media growth gave customers a megaphone for any issues (Twitter grew from ~30 million active monthly users in 2010 to 300 million in 2015, for instance)







1. If I saw the data showing it's not an issue, I'd launch a program to back the keyboard reliability and ease the minds of current and potential customers. It's subjective of whether it's the dumbest PR move ever. Saying "you're typing it wrong" would be the dumbest PR move ever IMO.
2. A product recall would be a confirmation, not a repair program. A repair program addresses the few percentage of customers experiencing any issues.
3. You are obviously interpreting the repair program wrong like so many others.




As opposed to a recall.

You told us you were leaving. You can't even keep your word on that either.

Instead of posting a wall of conjecture, just post some evidence to your claims. Your words mean nothing vs the data that has been supplied to prove everything you have claimed is wrong. You're in denial.

 

[farewelwilliams]

If you were objective, you’d also not ignore that each year since 2016, they had added subtle “fixes” to the keyboard in attempts to alleviate concerns.

Objectively Apple never said any of those fixes addresses any of the customer keyboard issues. Why would they refuse to publicly state that while at the same time publicly launch a repair program? If a fix addressed an issue, they would have said it. You're not even thinking properly here.

If you were objective, you’d realize that orgs have repair contracts with Apple for repairs.

Apple's Joint Venture program has existed for almost a decade now.

It’s well known that keyboard repair protocols are high on that list.

Whenever someone says something is "well known" without offering details or a link to back that up, someone shouldn't trust that, objectively speaking.

If you were objective, you’d realize that switching keyboards causes change in the supply chain. Change in the supply chain affects the bottom line.

If you were objective, any free repair program affects profits and optics. It’s a fallacy to think a free repair program will always keep your customers happy. Most loathe being without their laptop for more than a day let alone dealing with the process

Where did I say otherwise? Sounds like you're saying extra fluff to score random internet points.

A repair program eats into the margins with the hopes of improving sales either short term (potential customers of butterfly switch MacBooks) or long term (current butterfly switch MacBook customers will continue to trust Apple for future MacBooks).

I for one will never buy an Alienware product as the product I had kept breaking after several replacements and broke again after the warranty was up. Possibly I got lemon replacements or it was a design issue, regardless, if Alienware doesn't stand by their products, I'm gone. A repair program would have kept my trust intact.

If you were CEO, you’d fail for thinking shallow. Good thing you’re not CEO ☝️

Yet, Tim launched the repair program, which I said. Don't know what tf you're talking about.

You're not thinking properly here, objectively.

 

[farewelwilliams]

A web apps development company with 100 developers and 100 MacBook Pro had 100+ keyboard failures is overblown?

What BS report were you reading?

 

[farewelwilliams]

Anything that comes with its own replacement program is a good indicator for a bad design.

Unless it's been overblown so much, it caused a decline in satisfaction/popularity/and or sales.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Given you have no idea about the number, why continue the guessing game?

Apple had a reason to abandon this bad design entirely, and they did.

They just waited it out a bit to make it less obvious that someone was asleep at the wheel when the first 12” MacBook with this keyboard imitation shipped and then was extended to more product lines.

So...you're guessing what happened behind the scenes right after you asked me "why continue the guessing game". Got it.

In my last department, about 50% of these machines had to be repaired at least once, always non functioning keys.

And?

 

[farewelwilliams]

Don't even know where to start with this. EVERY single one of my friends and associates had an issue with this keyboard. I feel more lucky than smart I skipped this generation of MBP's.

Still doesn't speak for the majority.

 

[ericwn]

So...you're guessing what happened behind the scenes right after you asked me "why continue the guessing game". Got it.



And?

They reversed course entirely, across the board plus have a repair program in place. Case closed.

 

[ericwn]

Still doesn't speak for the majority.

Certainly doesn’t speak for the issue been overblown. Neither that that crap concept of a keyboard was completely removed from the product line. Speaks volumes.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Certainly doesn’t speak for the issue been overblown.

Of course, it really doesn't speak about anything other than your perspective.

Neither that that crap concept of a keyboard was completely removed from the product line. Speaks volumes.

Sure, people voted with their wallets. Says nothing about any mechanical issue.

 

[farewelwilliams]

They reversed course entirely, across the board plus have a repair program in place. Case closed.

Your flow of conversation is quite odd.

You: "Stop guessing!"
You: *provides guess*
Me: "You guessed after saying don't guess. What?"
You: "Case closed"

I think I'll end it here with you.

 

[ericwn]

Your flow of conversation is quite odd.

You: "Stop guessing!"
You: *provides guess*
Me: "You guessed after saying don't guess. What?"
You: "Case closed"

I think I'll end it here with you.

I’m sure you’ll find plenty other threads with Apple product faults to excuse, do go ahead. Make sure you pick the ones with a corresponding repair program to talk it down to make sure the biggest reaction.

 

[J InTech82]

Happy to be one of those buyers this quarter!

 

[Miha_v]

Still doesn't speak for the majority.

Consider yourself one of the lucky ones I guess. Every "butterfly" macbook pro in our office was riddled with keyboard issues. And the complaints have been overwhelming all over the world, since early on.

Just the fact that Apple reverted the technology back to scissors mechanism (they usually never do something like that) proves it was a problem that needed to be addressed. Apple is a premium brand afterall, people pay good money and expect quality for it.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Consider yourself one of the lucky ones I guess. Every "butterfly" macbook pro in our office was riddled with keyboard issues. And the complaints have been overwhelming all over the world, since early on.

Which doesn't say much considering Apple has had a 10% defect rate on average before 2016 (reported by Consumer Reports). That's 5 million defected butterfly MacBooks if that trend continued which is normal.

Just the fact that Apple reverted the technology back to scissors mechanism (they usually never do something like that) proves it was a problem that needed to be addressed. Apple is a premium brand afterall, people pay good money and expect quality for it.

Reverting technology doesn't prove mechanical failure. Like I've been saying, it's possible the issue was being overblown which scared customers away from even trying the MacBook. So in order to rid the stink of butterfly switches messing with the MacBook brand, they reverted back.

If there was a design failure, Apple would have admitted it. Apple admitted they "designed ourselves into a bit of a thermal corner" with the Mac Pro 2013 for example. MobileMe was a failure and Steve said "it was not our finest hour". They rejected a parody comic strip on the App Store, which then they changed the App Store rules and said "we are guilty of making mistakes. We're doing the best we can, we're learning as fast as we can". Tim apologized for Apple Maps. The list goes on...

However when an issue affects a "small percentage" of users, it's not really a widespread issue.

 

[bsolar]

You can try using anecdotal points, but you won't conclude anything with it. It doesn't move the needle one way or the other.

This is incorrect: anecdotal evidence can still be valuable to evaluate an issue. Of course it's more limited in value compared to more rigorous forms of evidence, but the value is not zero.

I've had issues with my old Alienware X51 R2. Had it replaced 7+ times (have the receipts for all replacements). Looking online, there are many reports of overheating and random shutdown issues. Was a design failure? I want to say yes, but thinking objectively, I can't say yes or no without hard data.

Your inability to conclusively determine that the issue was design doesn't mean you are unable to objectively consider the design issue as being the more likely explanation for your experience and the information you gathered about the issue.

You are not in a jury condemning someone to the death penalty, nor writing a scientific paper on a new Theory of Everything. You can still form a valuable, objective opinion even without it being 100% conclusive.

That pretty much says you're just as potentially wrong as I am. See above.

Nope. You are again conflating you and me being unable to conclusively prove or disprove our respective hypothesis from you and me being unable to objectively argue that one hypothesis is more likely to be correct than the other.

Occam's Razor's principle is meant exactly for this: it's not meant to prove or disprove an hypothesis against others, it's meant to give a guideline to evaluate between different potentially valid hypothesis which one is more likely to be the correct one.

"Far-fetched" is subjective.

Again, anecdotal points cannot possibly move the needle significantly one way or the other without additional data. "Significant anecdotal evidence" isn't scientific at all.

Again, you are making a fundamental mistake, which is assuming that only scientific evidence is valuable and other forms of evidence have no value. Anecdotal evidence is definitely less valuable than scientific evidence due to the lack of rigor inherent in it, but it can still be valuable.

You want to believe it so much that it is a design fault but it's entirely possible Apple replaced the design because people simply didn't like it. People vote with their wallets and Apple listened.

Nobody questions usability could have been a factor, but you should not forget Apple also issued a repair program. It would make no sense to issue a repair program for usability issues, since a repair cannot change the usability characteristics of a functioning keyboard for those who don't like it, it can only restore said usability if it happens to be disrupted by a fault.

According to a report by Consumer Reports 2016 (I don't have the link anymore as I'm no longer a CR subscriber, but I can point you to a publication that reported on this), Apple has a 10% breakage rate by the end of a 2nd year of ownership.

Would be nice to have a source: AFAIK that figure included devices in general and was in the context of the Surface having a ridiculously high breakage rate compared to the competition. I still don't think it matters much for the reasons below.

Butterfly switch MacBooks were sold since 2015. Apple sells about 18 million Macs per year, but let's just say 10 million per year are MacBooks with butterfly switches (that's being conservative, Apple says MacBooks are the most popular Macs they sell). That's 50 million MacBooks with butterfly switches. That's about 5 million broken MacBooks out there in the world right now.

So at a 10% failure rate, 5 million MacBooks are bound to have MANY reports of keyboard failures, especially when each of those 78 keys are a movable part compared to, say, a camera.

So when you ask "why there are so many reports of unreliability", there's your answer. This is objective.

Nope, it doesn't work like that. "Why the are so many reports of unreliability" is obviously compared to the past. Nobody questions that keyboard breaks, in general, but the question is why there are suddenly so many more reports of unreliability with the inception of the butterfly model compared to the previous model, or other models in general?

I can hypothesize that the combination of these reasons is why keyboard issues are overblown:
- It's a new piece of technology and therefore gave people a thing to blame
- People generally don't like the feel of the keys and therefore have an overall negative feel to the keyboard
- Social media growth gave customers a megaphone for any issues (Twitter grew from ~30 million active monthly users in 2010 to 300 million in 2015, for instance)

These are all very possible hypothesis, but the question is why they should be considered more likely to be true than the hypothesis people report that the keyboard is unreliable because the keyboard is unreliable?

Now, we can all try to figure out all kind of alternative hypothesis, but I stand by my opinion that Occam's Razor should apply, thus the simplest hypothesis possible is the more likely to be correct, which is definitely the reliability issues one.

If I saw the data showing it's not an issue, I'd launch a program to back the keyboard reliability and ease the minds of current and potential customers. It's subjective of whether it's the dumbest PR move ever. Saying "you're typing it wrong" would be the dumbest PR move ever IMO.

That would mean issuing a statement claiming that the new model is reliable, backing it up with data. Apple never did that. Now, ask yourself why...

To back the product and ease the minds of current and potential customers. Good PR move to keep the trust of customers.

If a product requires a repair program, the first thing a customer wonders is "why does it need a repair program?". The answer the customer is likely going to get is not "because they are PR geniuses"... it is "because the product has reliability issues".

There is IMHO zero chance the repair program was issued mainly as PR move: it obviously had PR considerations in it, but for an hardware company issuing a repair program is in itself a big PR blow, because it automatically puts into question the reliability of the product.

 

[farewelwilliams]

This is incorrect: anecdotal evidence can still be valuable to evaluate an issue. Of course it's more limited in value compared to more rigorous forms of evidence, but the value is not zero.

Are you saying it's incorrect in that anecdotal evidence is conclusive? I disagree there. It's not conclusive.

Unless you're talking about moving the needle, in which we'll agree to disagree. I think selective anecdotal evidence alone doesn't help.

Your inability to conclusively determine that the issue was design doesn't mean you are unable to objectively consider the design issue as being the more likely explanation for your experience and the information you gathered about the issue.

Sure, but saying I had a problem and some others had a problem doesn't really explain much. I know of four people who had their Segway ninebot scooter motor stop working after a couple of months. Considering segway doesn't sell by the millions, just having 4 anecdotal reports should enough, right? Nah. It doesn't "likely explain" a design failure as more data is needed to "move the needle".

You are not in a jury condemning someone to the death penalty, nor writing a scientific paper on a new Theory of Everything.

Facts do matter, regardless if someone is on death penalty or not.

You can still form a valuable, objective opinion even without it being 100% conclusive.

Sure and my objective opinion is that the keyboard issue is overblown for the reasons I've given.

Nope. You are again conflating you and me being unable to conclusively prove or disprove our respective hypothesis from you and me being unable to objectively argue that one hypothesis is more likely to be correct than the other.

"Nope"? So you're saying you're *not* potentially as wrong as I am. Well, if you can't *conclusively* prove your hypothesis, then how can you prove you're *not* potentially as wrong as I am? See where I'm getting at?

Occam's Razor's principle is meant exactly for this: it's not meant to prove or disprove an hypothesis against others, it's meant to give a guideline to evaluate between different potentially valid hypothesis which one is more likely to be the correct one.

Great. So it's possible you can be wrong. Just like it's possible I'm wrong. My earlier statement holds up.

Again, you are making a fundamental mistake, which is assuming that only scientific evidence is valuable and other forms of evidence have no value. Anecdotal evidence is definitely less valuable than scientific evidence due to the lack of rigor inherent in it, but it can still be valuable.

No. A few anecdotal reports have value, just themselves are not enough to move the needle. Don't put words in my mouth.

Nobody questions usability could have been a factor, but you should not forget Apple also issued a repair program.

I didn't forget. I've mentioned the repair program further down the post and gave a possible reason for the program.

Would be nice to have a source: AFAIK that figure included devices in general and was in the context of the Surface having a ridiculously high breakage rate compared to the competition. I still don't think it matters much for the reasons below.

Sure, here you go: https://cdn2.geckoandfly.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/laptop-reliability-report-comparison.jpg

Nope, it doesn't work like that. "Why the are so many reports of unreliability" is obviously compared to the past. Nobody questions that keyboard breaks, in general, but the question is why there are suddenly so many more reports of unreliability with the inception of the butterfly model compared to the previous model, or other models in general?

These are all very possible hypothesis, but the question is why they should be considered more likely to be true than the hypothesis people report that the keyboard is unreliable because the keyboard is unreliable?

Now, we can all try to figure out all kind of alternative hypothesis, but I stand by my opinion that Occam's Razor should apply, thus the simplest hypothesis possible is the more likely to be correct, which is definitely the reliability issues one.

1. And where is your data for "why there are suddenly so many more reports of unreliability"?
2. I explained the growth in social media as one reason. Twitter grew 10 fold in active users since 2010. Having a large user base makes tweets easier to go viral. According to SemRush, from October 2016 to today, MacRumors traffic grew 6.5 fold. discussions.apple.com grew nearly 2 fold since 2016. Youtube grew 2.9 fold since 2016. Not that there are more issues, but online engagement has multiplied.
Because it's a new piece of technology, it becomes a punching bag for many that dislike the feature overall. iPhone antenna gate got all the attention because iPhone touted their revolutionary new antenna design, yet plenty of other phones had the same issue. 6+ got the bend gate attention because it was a brand new design, despite just a few legitimate reports of a bending issue and the fact that 6S+ was still bendable even after being reinforced.

That would mean issuing a statement claiming that the new model is reliable, backing it up with data. Apple never did that. Now, ask yourself why...

What? No, it wouldn't. If data showed butterfly switch isn't an issue, and people want the scissor switch back, why would I lie to customers saying scissor switch is more reliable? I as a CEO (in this hypothetical scenario) back the butterfly switch with a program, yet I understand people desire the scissor switch more. So I'll simply say "we now have a refined scissor switch experience" which is what Apple has done.

If a product requires a repair program, the first thing a customer wonders is "why does it need a repair program?".

The answer the customer is likely going to get is not "because they are PR geniuses"... it is "because the product has reliability issues".

No. You're only seeing it through the lens that supports your argument. You're not seeing it from a different view. If I was a customer and I've been hearing all these overblown statements "OH MY GOD my keyboard is going to fail", that'll leave a bad taste in their mouth for spending so much money on this product. Guess what, I as a customer is going to have a lot to think about when the time comes to upgrade or buy new laptops for my children, especially during back to school season. I certainly stopped buying Alienware because they didn't stand by their X51 R2 product.

There is IMHO zero chance the repair program was issued mainly as PR move: it obviously had PR considerations in it, but for an hardware company issuing a repair program is in itself a big PR blow, because it automatically puts into question the reliability of the product.

Here we go again..."zero chance"...yet no data to back that up. Since that's more of an opinion rather than fact, we'll agree to disagree here.

 

[R3k]

because it was overblown. if enough people say it's bad when it really isn't and it causes a decline in sales, Apple had to provide extra assurance for the keyboard.

Apple never stated those "design adjustments" were to address any of the the "issues" that you're talking about. The 2018 "membrane" in the switches was never publicly announced to prevent any issues. it was overblown by the media and now you're taking it as a fact. you're kind of proving my point here. say it enough times and it becomes true in people's minds.

and you don't need to accuse me of being a shill. i've already stated the touchbar is problematic. why do you accuse everyone that disagrees with you of being shills?

replaced my 2016 keyboard 2 times over a couple of years and this third keyboard is developing the same mushy and unresponsive key problem. Guess I’m just

 

[farewelwilliams]

replaced my 2016 keyboard 2 times over a couple of years and this third keyboard is developing the same mushy and unresponsive key problem. Guess I’m just

Just...what?
What makes you think you wouldn't have keyboard issues if it were scissor switches? Could it not be a normal defect?

I've had Cherry MX keyboards replaced from Corsair twice because the keys kept repeating when I single press them. Does that mean Corsair's keyboards were flawed in design? Nope, at least not conclusively. And it's not just me. Google corsair cherry mx repeated keystrokes. You'll find plenty of others having the same issue. Yet people continue to buy them.

 

[cmaier]

replaced my 2016 keyboard 2 times over a couple of years and this third keyboard is developing the same mushy and unresponsive key problem. Guess I’m just

Replaced a 2018 keyboard twice and a 2016 keyboard once. And the 2016 now has an issue with the “4” key.

 

[pankajdoharey]

Genuinely surprises me it isn't the 2020 Air.

I think the fixed keyboard and $999 / 256gb SSD base ( I know, more would be nice but this is apple and 256gb imo is serviceable, 128gb is junk) is very compelling for the average consumer in need of a new laptop

I still have my 2016 NTB Pro and I appreciate the thinned tapered design over it.

Actually its the long delivery times of Macbook Air 2020 in the covid situation, the upgraded Air config had long delivery times, while pro was readily available, that was my reason, i hear similar reasons from. others.

 

[bsolar]

Are you saying it's incorrect in that anecdotal evidence is conclusive? I disagree there. It's not conclusive.

Unless you're talking about moving the needle, in which we'll agree to disagree. I think selective anecdotal evidence alone doesn't help.

Anecdotal evidence has some value, which means it does in fact move the needle even if just a little. If you think it has zero value and it's worthless, I'd say you are objectively wrong, but as you say, agree to disagree.

Sure, but saying I had a problem and some others had a problem doesn't really explain much. I know of four people who had their Segway ninebot scooter motor stop working after a couple of months. Considering segway doesn't sell by the millions, just having 4 anecdotal reports should enough, right? Nah. It doesn't "likely explain" a design failure as more data is needed to "move the needle".

Your experience and the information you got about the Segway scooter motor moved the needle already, whether you like it or not and whether it's enough for you to form a conclusive opinion or not. See above.

Sure and my objective opinion is that the keyboard issue is overblown for the reasons I've given.

Agree to disagree I guess?

"Nope"? So you're saying you're *not* potentially as wrong as I am. Well, if you can't *conclusively* prove your hypothesis, then how can you prove you're *not* potentially as wrong as I am? See where I'm getting at?

Great. So it's possible you can be wrong. Just like it's possible I'm wrong. My earlier statement holds up.

My conclusive statement in my first post was that only Apple can know the truth, since only they have the data. This does *not* mean we cannot form hypothesis and we cannot evaluate which one is more likely to be correct.

Basically, only Apple knows the truth, you and I have different hypothesis formed by limited information and my hypothesis is more likely to be correct due to Occam's Razor.

I explained to you why Occam's Razor suggests the reliability issue is the more likely explanation. I won't explain it again. Agree to disagree on this too I guess.

No. A few anecdotal reports have value, just themselves are not enough to move the needle. Don't put words in my mouth.

If they have value, they in fact move the needle, even if just slightly.

I didn't forget. I've mentioned the repair program further down the post and gave a possible reason for the program.

And you have been explained why your explanation for the program doesn't hold much water and even if it did would be the less likely explanation anyway. Again, I won't explain again, agree to disagree if you wish.

1. And where is your data for "why there are suddenly so many more reports of unreliability"?

This site alone reported on that multiple times, meaning that the reliability of the keyboard was, at least from MacRumors' point of view, by definition "noteworthy". Other very reputable sites reported on that too.

I explained already why the more likely explanation for that is that the keyboard had actual unreliability issues instead of alternative hypothesis.

2. I explained the growth in social media as one reason. Twitter grew 10 fold in active users since 2010. Having a large user base makes tweets easier to go viral. According to SemRush, from October 2016 to today, MacRumors traffic grew 6.5 fold. discussions.apple.com grew nearly 2 fold since 2016. Youtube grew 2.9 fold since 2016. Not that there are more issues, but online engagement has multiplied.
Because it's a new piece of technology, it becomes a punching bag for many that dislike the feature overall. iPhone antenna gate got all the attention because iPhone touted their revolutionary new antenna design, yet plenty of other phones had the same issue. 6+ got the bend gate attention because it was a brand new design, despite just a few legitimate reports of a bending issue and the fact that 6S+ was still bendable even after being reinforced.

AntennaGate got attention because there actually was an issue: Apple actually knew about this, since one of their engineers raised the issue internally and Apple actually issued an informative to their users about how to grip the phone during a call to prevent the issue. Consumer Reports did perform independent tests and did confirm the issue themselves.

BendGate got attention because there actually was an issue: Apple's internal documents revealed they did identify the issue as a major concern even before they launched the devices.

TL;DR: if an issue in a product becomes newsworthy, the more likely explanation is that the issue is real (which by the way basically summarizes the whole point...).

What? No, it wouldn't. If data showed butterfly switch isn't an issue, and people want the scissor switch back, why would I lie to customers saying scissor switch is more reliable? I as a CEO (in this hypothetical scenario) back the butterfly switch with a program, yet I understand people desire the scissor switch more. So I'll simply say "we now have a refined scissor switch experience" which is what Apple has done.

If there are claims that your new butterfly switch has reliability issues and you have the data to back up that it does not, you would disclose the data and defend the reputation of your company as producer of reliable products. This is not related to user's preference, but to your reputation as hardware company.

But I won't question further your strategy as CEO, agree to disagree on this too.

No. You're only seeing it through the lens that supports your argument. You're not seeing it from a different view. If I was a customer and I've been hearing all these overblown statements "OH MY GOD my keyboard is going to fail", that'll leave a bad taste in their mouth for spending so much money on this product. Guess what, I as a customer is going to have a lot to think about when the time comes to upgrade or buy new laptops for my children, especially during back to school season. I certainly stopped buying Alienware because they didn't stand by their X51 R2 product.

As I stated further down, I do agree there were in part PR considerations, but if an hardware company issues a repair program I don't buy it's only for PR, since in itself it damages the reputation of the company as producer of reliable hardware products.

Again, I guess agree to disagree...

Here we go again..."zero chance"...yet no data to back that up. Since that's more of an opinion rather than fact, we'll agree to disagree here.

Yep, that's what IMHO means: "In My Humble Opinion".

I'd say we'll agree to disagree in general at this point.

 

[Jury]

Record sales are due to pandemic and replacing the butterfinger keyboard.

No doubt, the mac sales unit sold always less than 5M before the inception of pandemic and removal of butterfly mechanism.

 

[ipponrg]

Objectively Apple never said any of those fixes addresses any of the customer keyboard issues. Why would they refuse to publicly state that while at the same time publicly launch a repair program? If a fix addressed an issue, they would have said it. You're not even thinking properly here.

You don't know the meaning of the word objectively here. Would you make enhancements to something that wasn't broken?

Whenever someone says something is "well known" without offering details or a link to back that up, someone shouldn't trust that, objectively speaking.

Do you think every "well known" information is on the internet? If you were CEO, would you disclose agreement contracts on the internet? The joint venture terms are standard template btw. Special contracts can be amended between Apple and XYZ company.

Where did I say otherwise? Sounds like you're saying extra fluff to score random internet points.

A repair program eats into the margins with the hopes of improving sales either short term (potential customers of butterfly switch MacBooks) or long term (current butterfly switch MacBook customers will continue to trust Apple for future MacBooks).

I for one will never buy an Alienware product as the product I had kept breaking after several replacements and broke again after the warranty was up. Possibly I got lemon replacements or it was a design issue, regardless, if Alienware doesn't stand by their products, I'm gone. A repair program would have kept my trust intact.

The purpose was to point out how you were not objective. Let me quote you again: "any worries of reliability issues for potential customers and eventually switch keyboards back". Objectively, why would you switch keyboards if the issues were overblown? Wouldn't you have enough faith to NOT spend money to change your supply chain in these areas? Why spend additional money, because according to you, these are "overblown"??? For an armchair CEO, you have all sorts of contradictions here.

On a side note, the Alienware comparison isn't even a reasonable comparison here. You can go to HP, Dell, Asus, Razer, etc. With Apple, where do you go?

Yet, Tim launched the repair program, which I said. Don't know what tf you're talking about.

You're not thinking properly here, objectively.

Thank you, again, for reinforcing all my points above. You say I don't know what I am talking about, so I'll just respond you're a shallow thinker. Hence why you don't know what tf I am talking about

 

[rp2011]

Good to see the Mac doing good. Especially as new modern Macs are on the horizon.

 

[Yaboze]

There have been rumors about Apple dumping Intel for a while and now we have this report of recent record sales for a Intel MacBook Pro that is being phased out. I think Apple should just stick to Intel/AMD. I am just not feeling this move to Apple silicon. The iPhone and iPad's are great, but on a desktop I feel you lose too much flexibility with dual booting and the amount of Apps that are out there. It's going to get even more closed.

Also, you know 1st generation Apple products are typically horrendous and this is going to fragment their laptop line.

I would buy a MacBook Pro 16" right now if they were not dumping Intel.