Apple Says Spotify Wants 'Limitless Access' to App Store Tools Without Paying

[Michael Scrip]

Apple has a competing product which it favours dramatically its own platform. That’s a cause for not only complaint but also intervention.

I hate analogies, especially car ones, but it’s like Apple selling a car, then only allowing the owner to buy petrol from a specific petrol station. Once at the petrol station, they offer their own petrol, which is ‘optimised‘ for the car in a way no other petrol has the option to be optimised. They offer this special petrol at the top of the list, with other ’gimped’ petrol below. They charge a flat fee to be allowed to offer petrol in the first place (siting special access to specific knowledge of the car, which they hide in the first place) then they charge a fee per litre on top, neither of which is applicable to their own special super petrol.

Maybe I don't understand the complaint.

Yes... iPhones come with Apple Music installed. And some people might say Apple Music works best on an iPhone.

But clearly the hundreds of millions of Spotify users with iPhones have figured out how to use Spotify on their iPhones.

If Apple was preventing other music streaming services from being on the iPhone... then that would definitely be a problem. But you can install and use many different streaming services on your iPhone.

Apple includes the Notes app on every iPhone. Does Evernote complain about that? Bear Notes?

Apple also includes the Podcasts app on every iPhone. Does Overcast complain about that? Pocket Casts?

Maybe they do and the press doesn't cover it since every week there's a new Spotify complaint... I dunno...

 

[MacFarmer]

Apple keeps lying to defend their entitled and monopolistic behavior.

It's completely false that Spotify pays Apple nothing. Just like other developers, Spotify pays a yearly fee for the Developer Program, which according to Apple includes "all the tools, resources, and support you need to create and deliver software to over a billion customers around the world on Apple platforms"

I tend to disagree. If you ever worked in large corporation, you know the fees for services are not insignificant. They could cut the IAP fees, but I would expect them to change the yearly developer fee to XX% of Spotify's revenue generated through Apple platforms. So in the end it would be the same anyway.

 

[MauiPa]

Totally consistent for Spotify, they also want access to artist's music without paying fairly for it. And their programmers are terrible Spotify - so dated.

Until they pay the artists fairly - they are a big nope notta, never going to happen. I will say that due to their number of users, they get Netflix soundtracks earlier than Apple Music sometimes. Nothing that SogShift can't fix

 

[treacher]

Apple is doing the right thing by limiting the browser engine to only Safari. They have security in mind, and I trust they are keeping me safe.

 

[AlmightyKang]

Apple is equally fallible even in their very own App Store review process. Hey, I guess we're all flawed. Maybe we should just stop doing anything.

I hope you don't work in the security sector.

I do.

 

[MauiPa]

Apple has a competing product which it favours dramatically its own platform. That’s a cause for not only complaint but also intervention.

I hate analogies, especially car ones, but it’s like Apple selling a car, then only allowing the owner to buy petrol from a specific petrol station. Once at the petrol station, they offer their own petrol, which is ‘optimised‘ for the car in a way no other petrol has the option to be optimised. They offer this special petrol at the top of the list, with other ’gimped’ petrol below. They charge a flat fee to be allowed to offer petrol in the first place (siting special access to specific knowledge of the car, which they hide in the first place) then they charge a fee per litre on top, neither of which is applicable to their own special super petrol.

I think it’s pretty clear why competing products would be unhappy with this arrangement.

Other than being completely unfounded, this is actually funny. Spotify (the free version) works fine on iPhone. search for Spotify on the App Store, and boom, there it is. Not to mention that everyone knows your Spotify subscription that you purchased on the web, works just fine

 

[cupcakes2000]

Why can't Apple sell their own competing product?

Costco sells Kirkland (Costco's house brand) of products next to competing products. Walmart, Target, Amazon. They all do the same.

Apple also sells streaming TV service. I don't see Netflix, Disney, HBO, et al complain incessantly.

No once said Apple can’t make a competing product. It’s favouring that competing product in multiple ways; monetarily, system integration, unique advertisements placed inside system preferences, for example.

 

[MilaM]

No it's not. Don't forget browsers have malicious extensions even if they have best intent on security policy.

Autoskip for YouTube Chrome extension was a fine example of that...

This is a completely different type of scam. Did this extension circumvent browser permissions?

Apple regularily publishes scam apps on the app store. Just recently someone lost 500.000 USD because of a scam app that was a look-a-like of a legit bitcoin wallet.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Other than being completely unfounded, this is actually funny. Spotify (the free version) works fine on iPhone. search for Spotify on the App Store, and boom, there it is. Not to mention that everyone knows your Spotify subscription that you purchased on the web, works just fine

Not the subject of my post. My post simply states that apple favours its own products over competitors due to its control over everything.

 

[pastrychef]

No once said Apple can’t make a competing product. It’s favouring that competing product in multiple ways; monetarily, system integration, unique advertisements placed inside system preferences, for example.

How is it any different from Apple TV+? Why don't competing streaming TV services complain like Spotify?

Why don't Tidal complain?

 

[treacher]

The experience inside of Apple services is always premium and integrated with the system, so I tend to choose Apple.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Maybe I don't understand the complaint.

Yes... iPhones come with Apple Music installed. And some people might say Apple Music works best on an iPhone.

But clearly the hundreds of millions of Spotify users with iPhones have figured out how to use Spotify on their iPhones.

If Apple was preventing other music streaming services from being on the iPhone... then that would definitely be a problem. But you can install and use many different streaming services on your iPhone.

Apple includes the Notes app on every iPhone. Does Evernote complain about that? Bear Notes?

Apple also includes the Podcasts app on every iPhone. Does Overcast complain about that? Pocket Casts?

Maybe they do and the press doesn't cover it since every week there's a new Spotify complaint... I dunno...

Multiple notes app devs already complain at the system integration available to apple notes over their own notes apps, control centre, quick note etc.

 

[pastrychef]

You can buy books inside of Apple Books but not Kindle. The experience is dramatically worse for Kindle.

How Amazon decides to run the Kindle is Amazon's decision.

 

[MilaM]

How is it any different from Apple TV+? Why don't competing streaming TV services complain like Spotify?

There is a huge difference. Video streaming services don't have overlapping content catalogues. You can't just substitute Apple TV for Netflix. It's a different kind of competition.

 

[ManDark]

why should apple get to have their own music service with much lower cost and price spotify out of the market?

how do you know that this is ture what you are suggesting ? much lower cost to who ? apple to apple ? or Apple Music to Apple ? did you see the books of apple and spotify ... Soptify needs a fair playground ROFL ... LOOOOL reaaaly ... spotify lives in a fairytaile or in a wonderland ... where in the world is a failr playgroud exists ... i love to go there to make money too.

 

[treacher]

Apple loves competition, they fully embrace the spirit of it. In my opinion, their product is always the best choice, and I stick with them whenever possible.

 

[AlmightyKang]

This is a completely different type of scam. Did this extension circumvent browser permissions?

Apple regularily publishes scam apps on the app store. Just recently someone lost 500.000 USD because of a scam app that was a look-a-like of a legit bitcoin wallet.

I feel like I'm losing the battle of rationality here and it's going down the route of whataboutism so I'm going to refrain from commenting further. I've been on the Internet long enough...

 

[tehabe]

How is it any different from Apple TV+? Why don't competing streaming TV services complain like Spotify?

Apple TV+ has a more narrow focus. It offers essentially only original programming. Also the only one who know that are the streaming companies themselves. Also they have the ability to be part of the Apple TV app experience. Netflix didn't choose to do that (for unknown reasons.)

Why don't Tidal complain?

Ask Tidal.

 

[cupcakes2000]

How is it any different from Apple TV+? Why don't competing streaming TV services complain like Spotify?

Music is a much bigger deal on a phone than TV. If the Apple TV was a bigger deal (the set top box) then I would bet that more of these companies would complain if Apple favoured its own app over others (which it does, but the Apple TV is a drop in the ocean).

 

[AppliedMicro]

Spotify already won. They got the EU to force Apple to allow side-loading. They will soon be able to leave the Apple App Store forever and never pay Apply anything again.

Why are they still complaining??

You misread the article - Apple is complaining.

And their original action was for Apple‘s past anticompetitive behaviour.

 

[pastrychef]

The Kindle app on the App Store?

Who else decides whether Amazon sells books on their Kindle app?

 

[Michael Scrip]

Multiple notes app devs already complain at the system integration available to apple notes over their own notes apps, control centre, quick note etc.

I see... thanks!

Next we'll be hearing complaints from developers of weather apps, calculator apps, contacts apps, compass apps, clock apps, camera apps, fitness apps, health apps, etc.

This should be fun!

 

[tobybrut]

Surprise... it's already been solved!

About eight years ago Spotify started telling their subscribers to stop paying through the App Store and to subscribe through the Spotify website instead.

And just a few months ago Spotify stopped using App Store In-App Purchase altogether.

So yeah... Spotify isn't paying the 30% "Apple Tax" anymore. Problem solved!

And yet... once a week we still get an article about some new complaint that Spotify has against Apple.

I don't think Spotify will ever be happy. 🤣



Yeah maybe some developers would still complain if it was 10%. Who knows.

But I still maintain that 30% is the problem for some developers.

Amazon doesn't sell Kindle books in the Kindle App because they'd have to pay Apple 30% for every Kindle book sold. Instead... Amazon's customers must go to the website to buy Kindle books. It adds extra friction in Amazon's book-selling process. Amazon can't be too happy with that friction.

But if Apple only charged 10%... maybe Amazon would consider using In-App Purchases to make it easier for their customers. It would be nice to actually buy books inside the same app where you read books, wouldn't it?

In other words... if the fees were more reasonable... maybe all these high-profile developers would still be selling content and subscriptions in the App Store and making it easier for consumers.

That's all I was saying.

Of course developers would love it if there were no fees at all. But I don't expect that to happen.

What exactly is “reasonable”? That’s the problem. People are saying it’s unreasonable based on… what exactly? Nobody has any idea how much it costs Apple to run their App Store. And who’s to say what a reasonable profit is? Whatever happened to good old supply and demand? In 2008, “reasonable” was 70%. After 2008, “reasonable” became 30% (15% if you’re a small developer). Why is 30% now unreasonable when developers have been making money hand over fist on the Apple App Store? Companies want to be on that store because that’s where the bulk of the profits are to be had. Survey after survey shows massive profits are made by companies on Apple’s App Store compared to other stores and why developers flock to that store. That is a reason for Apple to raise fees, not lower them.

I would bet if Apple raised their fee to 35% and everyone else stayed at 30%, not that they ever plan to, very few apps would leave the store because developers know where the money is. It’s well known iPhone customers spend far more money on the App Store than Android customers do on theirs. Meanwhile Spotify and others are trying to pretend they are somehow facing destitution because the fee is so onerous when none of them are making as much money anywhere else. How much of Spotify’s market share is because of Apple’s efforts in creating a platform they are currently paying nothing on?

10% is a completely arbitrary number based on nothing but a feeling. I don’t know what Apple based 30% on but I assume it’s calculated from their costs plus a standard profit margin, something done for everything sold in today’s marketplace. Why should this be any different?

 

[MilaM]

I feel like I'm losing the battle of rationality here and it's going down the route of whataboutism so I'm going to refrain from commenting further. I've been on the Internet long enough...

My point is, that the existence of scam browser extentions does not prove, that the browser security model was exploited. From a technical perspective it even works as expected.

A scam extension is very similar to a scam app that slips through Apple's app review.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Who else decides whether Amazon sells books on their Kindle app?

Nominally Amazon - but in effect Apple through that 30% commission that makes it unviable for Amazon.