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Apple Says Spotify Wants 'Limitless Access' to App Store Tools Without Paying

I (the customer) have already paid for the device. I own it. It's mine to use and run whatever software on it I want.

3rd party services that run their app on MY phone and do not use Apple services/infrastructure don't owe Apple anything.

I hope the EU will sanction Apple to hell over all this blatant greed.

(The only way this would be even remotely justified is if the phone itself was free...)
 
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cupcakes2000 said:
Apple has a competing product which it favours dramatically its own platform. That’s a cause for not only complaint but also intervention.

I hate analogies, especially car ones, but it’s like Apple selling a car, then only allowing the owner to buy petrol from a specific petrol station. Once at the petrol station, they offer their own petrol, which is ‘optimised‘ for the car in a way no other petrol has the option to be optimised. They offer this special petrol at the top of the list, with other ’gimped’ petrol below. They charge a flat fee to be allowed to offer petrol in the first place (siting special access to specific knowledge of the car, which they hide in the first place) then they charge a fee per litre on top, neither of which is applicable to their own special super petrol.

I think it’s pretty clear why competing products would be unhappy with this arrangement.
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You mean like Tesla and their exclusive charging network? I don’t think this analogy works. Every vendor favors its own products. Why should Apple be forced to be an exception?
 
WiiDSmoker said:
Why can I install anything on windows, Mac, Linux; but Apple wants to charge?
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Not true, you are making it too simple.

on windows there is a store now, apps are there for free but also you need to pay, and what about free apps and then you need to pay for the app in the app purchase, who get what share, and who decide what is fair ?

Mac is the same just with less apps.

Linux ... well do you get the same support and experience than on Mac an Windows ...

And Mac ? has a store too so the rules apply for the Mac store too ... if not then you have to host your app on some site which is surely free :-D you need to make a site ... and then well who will know about your app ... noone so you again need to pay google or ms or someone else that your app will appear in the search field it is called a advertising so why the EU doesn't regulate also this 🙃
 
On the other side, Spotify reshaped the whole music industry in a very bad way. Apple Music isn't better at any point either. In my opinion, all streaming service either should pay much more for each play, or should be closed by law, because what's happening right now is nothing more but robbery.

And I can understand the end user's fidelity, you don't have to pay that much to listen to our music, and you think you done something right, because at the end of the day, the artist getting something back. But that's just not true.

Just checked my distributor, where i'm close to an 3 million plays (overall gathered since 2017), which turns to be a $202 overall income. If you think this a good number, then think again, and imaging yourself working hard to make something banger, plays a lot, and you earn literally nothing.

The 3 million plays looks nice for an artist like me who makes music as a hobby, the income isn't really that...

In my opinion Daniel Ek (Spotify's CEO) can shut his mouth off now, because he will be the loudest one again, when the EU will arrive to the artist revenue problem (it's in the making), can't wait to see the whole company goes bankrupt.
 
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AppliedMicro said:
You misread the article - Apple is complaining.

And their original action was for Apple‘s past anticompetitive behaviour.
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Screenshot 2024-02-23 at 6.46.25 AM.png
 
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treacher said:
Worldwide means nothing; there is no world government. These things operate on a country by country basis. iOS has an almost 60% market share in the US for example.
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Spotify complaint is with the EU. Which is even less credible as Apple has far less market share in the EU than the USA (24%). So my point still stands. They are complaining to an EU court about harm to their business on an OS that only has 24% share of the market. How does that make sense?
Also, Spotify is available to many more devices and computer systems than Apple Music, and is also available on the web.

Their complaint is ridiculous. Unless they consider iOS users far more valuable than the 76% of the market they enjoy "unrestricted". If thats the case, then they are making Apple's argument for them, i.e. the iOS market place is a exceedingly valuable user base that has been specially curated and built over 15 yrs, and one that is worth paying the access fee to.
 
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tobybrut said:
I would bet if Apple raised their fee to 35% and everyone else stayed at 30%, not that they ever plan to, very few apps would leave the store because developers know where the money is
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Exactly. A monopoly with unilateral pricing power.

tobybrut said:
I don’t know what Apple based 30% on but I assume it’s calculated from their costs plus a standard profit margin
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They made a figure up. I believe they even said so when pressed in the EPIC trial or by regulators.

60% or 70% profit margin aren’t standard - and given the scaling up of the App Store since 2008 and thr near-to-zero marginal costs of distributing apps, the margins only increased into pure profit.
 
Apple makes very careful and considered decisions when entering a market. I trust they are doing the right thing.
 
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albeva said:
I (the customer) have already paid for the device. I own it. It's mine to use and run whatever software on it I want.

3rd party services that run their app on MY phone and do not use Apple services/infrastructure don't owe Apple anything.

I hope the EU will sanction Apple to hell over all this blatant greed.

(The only way this would be even remotely justified is if the phone itself was free...)
Click to expand...
Not True, first read the warranty information, you own the device but teher are rules you need to foolow, if not then you will loose warratny and support.

if they are running on your phone thy automaticaly use Apple sevices infrastructure and everything, this is a foolish mistake you dont know what you are writing about.

if you second sentence is true then i will move into you house use your stuff and not pay anything because i will pay someone else for this service and not you .. this is what you think is correct.
 
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threesixty360 said:
Which is even less credible as Apple has far less market share in the EU than the USA (24%). So my point still stands. They are complaining to an EU court about harm to their business on an OS that only has 24% share of the market. How does that make sense?
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Apple has been estimated to command over 50% of revenue market share (mobile app user spending) in Europe.
threesixty360 said:
and is also available on the web.
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I tried playing YouTube audio to my AirPlay speakers and iOS can‘t reliably do it.
So the web is no real alternative.
 
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DJ_Envo said:
On the other side, Spotify reshaped the whole music industry in a very bad way. Apple Music isn't better at any point either. In my opinion, all streaming service either should pay much more for each play, or should be closed by law, because what's happening right now is nothing more but robbery.
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You might be shooting the messenger here. The reason why smaller artists make so little money has more to do with the fact, that large puplishers like Universal and Warner with large catalogues have a lot of leverage over Spotify and all other streaming apps. It's mostly them who decide who gets how much money. Spotify is just running the infrastructure and redistributing the money.
 
tobybrut said:
What exactly is “reasonable”? That’s the problem. People are saying it’s unreasonable based on… what exactly? Nobody has any idea how much it costs Apple to run their App Store. And who’s to say what a reasonable profit is? Whatever happened to good old supply and demand? In 2008, “reasonable” was 70%. After 2008, “reasonable” became 30% (15% if you’re a small developer). Why is 30% now unreasonable when developers have been making money hand over fist on the Apple App Store? Companies want to be on that store because that’s where the bulk of the profits are to be had. Survey after survey shows massive profits are made by companies on Apple’s App Store compared to other stores and why developers flock to that store. That is a reason for Apple to raise fees, not lower them.

I would bet if Apple raised their fee to 35% and everyone else stayed at 30%, not that they ever plan to, very few apps would leave the store because developers know where the money is. It’s well known iPhone customers spend far more money on the App Store than Android customers do on theirs. Meanwhile Spotify and others are trying to pretend they are somehow facing destitution because the fee is so onerous when none of them are making as much money anywhere else. How much of Spotify’s market share is because of Apple’s efforts in creating a platform they are currently paying nothing on?

10% is a completely arbitrary number based on nothing but a feeling. I don’t know what Apple based 30% on but I assume it’s calculated from their costs plus a standard profit margin, something done for everything sold in today’s marketplace. Why should this be any different?
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Oh I agree with you.

I was just saying that there are large developers who don't like the 30% fee. So they would obviously like that fee to be lower.

You're right... I just picked 10% arbitrarily for the point of discussion.

I could have picked any number between 0% and 30%

😎
 
Apple Books is a great exclusive perk for Apple devices, it offers a very premium experience, and I am happy to build my library with them.
 
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AppliedMicro said:
Apple has been estimated to command over 50% of revenue market share (mobile app user spending) in Europe.

I tried playing YouTube audio to my AirPlay speakers and iOS can‘t reliably do it.
So the web is no real alternative.
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Revenue and market share very different.
e.g. If the market for analog watches is everyone with a wrist the fact that Rolex make the most money does not indicate that there is no more money to be had by other watch makers. All it says is that Rolex are good at making money off their smaller market share.

Spotify's issue is that they have so small margins that they need every user possible with no additional fees to access those extra customers. Thats their problem. There are lots of other iOS developers who are making very good profits and margins in the iOS space. Spotify should just figure it out!

They are using Apple Music to say that if Apple Music cost 30% more to run then they wouldn't be able to compete with Spotify and then Spotify would gain more users and be more profitable. But they have no idea how much Apple Music costs to run. It could be a money pit or very lean, who knows. But they are effectively saying apple should not be able to provide a similar service on their own platforms to one their competitors want to provide? Thats just mental.

As for the airplay thing. You're now saying Spotify on the web is useless?? So why do they make it? Airplay is not the only way to play music. Thats not a valid argument at all.
 
treacher said:
Worldwide means nothing; there is no world government. These things operate on a country by country basis. iOS has an almost 60% market share in the US for example.
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Yet Spotify are complaining to the EU where iOS only has 33% market share.
 
9059737 said:
Apple keeps lying to defend their entitled and monopolistic behavior.

It's completely false that Spotify pays Apple nothing. Just like other developers, Spotify pays a yearly fee for the Developer Program, which according to Apple includes "all the tools, resources, and support you need to create and deliver software to over a billion customers around the world on Apple platforms"
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Note that it says “deliver”, not “charge”. Since you are quoting “according to Apple”, according to Apple, if charges are involved, Apple gets a portion. The lie is not theirs, as they have been clear about that since the beginning.
 
Apple would not do anything that they would not want done to themselves. They are an outstanding example of moral resiliency.
 
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