Apple Says Spotify Wants 'Limitless Access' to App Store Tools Without Paying

[truthsteve]

So if you buy an iphone, your soul belongs to apple!? I didn't read that in the EULA /s
Enjoy being a product.

if you bought an iPhone without knowing how the App Store or how iOS works, you have no one else to blame but yourself lol

that's like saying "what??? I bought a Tesla and just realized it doesn't support CarPlay, what? Elon owns my soul?". ridiculous.

 

[6787872]

apple already steals enough money from developers

 

[MilaM]

what?
if Spotify is available on the web then there's no issue since iOS users can access Spotify on the web. so what is Spotify whining about now?

I only hear Apple whining right now 😝.

 

[treacher]

Developers want a fair experience, and I believe Apple already provides it. It is a premium experience that has a cost associted with it, and the majority of developers are happy to pay into it. Apple deserves their share for creating this platform that is such a joy to use.

 

[contacos]

How about you pay your taxes first before you complain about others

 

[Veinticinco]

Bored of both parties, sniping at each other and whining about respective share and profit-chasing practices, and what they each think they are entitled to.

I use both Apple services (not Music) and Spotify yet have little respect for either side's leadership (for different reasons), but FFS just accept you're in a symbiotic relationship and work out a compromise like adults.

 

[Michael Scrip]

It makes me wonder if the situation would be different if Apple charged a 10% fee instead of a whopping 30%

Then maybe these big players would have remained in the store... Netflix, Spotify, Epic, Kindle, etc.

10% probably wouldn't matter that much to these giant developers to have all the benefits that the App Store provides... plus Apple would be getting 10% of all those transactions.

Instead... Apple is now getting sued from all sides... and they have to come up special arrangements like "reader apps" and whatnot.

It just might have been better for Apple if they charged a more reasonable rate from the beginning to keep everybody onboard.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Rogifan]

Because Apple set up the tools for Spotify to even have access to be eligible to be priced out of the market?

Apple created music streaming?

 

[AlmightyKang]

I’ll say it again: Spotify don’t have to have an iOS client or business. Same goes for any app. If you choose to build something in this walled garden then you chose to take the risk up front.

Spotify is neither a public service or a necessity, it’s a luxury.

So basically the most abusive streamer wants to leverage an economic union to force another corporation to reduce the bottom line costs of their operation. Sounds like Spotify’s business is maximising profit not respecting artists or end users.

Edit: I’m not on either side here. They are both bastards. Just the story needs telling how it is not how it’s propagandised by the litigant of the hour.

 

[truthsteve]

I only hear Apple whining right now 😝.

"and the ongoing complaints that Spotify has made to the EC to attempt to get the App Store rules changed."

 

[DogHouseDub]

Spotify pays artists 1/3 of what Apple does.

 

[MilaM]

Sounds like Spotify’s business is maximising profit not respecting artists or end users.

Sounds like Apple's business is maximising profit not respecting developers or end users.

Maybe both statements can be true at the same time?

 

[Rocco83]

Playing devil’s advocate, you list products on Amazon, Amazon gets a cut as the vehicle to get the product to the customer.

Without the iPhone, the user base of Spotify would drastically shrink. Spotify is paying for butts in the seats.

Also, with the arguments from folks about Apple should make concessions for competitive products on their platform…would you cut your own throat to make less money?

Finally…NO ONE has bought an iPhone because of Spotify. It’s not like Spotify is bringing massive amounts of value to Apple.

 

[truthsteve]

Apple keeps lying to defend their entitled and monopolistic behavior.

It's completely false that Spotify pays Apple nothing. Just like other developers, Spotify pays a yearly fee for the Developer Program, which according to Apple includes "all the tools, resources, and support you need to create and deliver software to over a billion customers around the world on Apple platforms"

"includes" is what Apple provides for the program. $99 is not how much it costs to cover those expenses. Spotify submitted 40+ updates last year. App Store reviewer makes, what? $20/hr? one submission is about 30 min work? 20 hours x $20 = $400. Fine make it 5 hours. 5 hours x $20 = $100. Then there's server costs and a bunch of other things.

$99/year is practically nothing. if you're going to say Apple is lying over a technicality, then that's a pretty weak argument.

 

[djc6]

Does anyone have a link to Spotify's concerns? This article is pretty one sided.

 

[Veinticinco]

Let’s not forget when the App Store first launched Steve Jobs said the intention was to run it as a break-even business. And back in 2011 Phil Schiller suggested dropping the commission rate once the App Store got to a $1B/yr profit run rate.

Exactly. Some short memories here but then everyone has good intentions until the money starts pouring in.

Only problem is Jobs is dead and Schiller is effectively retired. Meanwhile, the guy in charge is a beancounter and has repeatedly demonstrated he values profit above all else. He'd probably pick up the coin tips from a restaurant plate if that outdated practice was still alive and he thought he could get away with it.

 

[AeroEd]

You could also just allow 3rd party app stores so that Spotify doesn’t have limitless access to App Store tools without paying

 

[MilaM]

Finally…NO ONE has bought an iPhone because of Spotify. It’s not like Spotify is bringing massive amounts of value to Apple.

But would people still buy iPhones if suddenly all third-party apps disappeared? It is a symbiotic relationship.

 

[KENPHOTO]

I run what would be considered a small app company, compared to huge companies like Spotify. I have no issue paying Apple a commission for App Store sales, including in app purchases. I know a lot of other small developers and do not know of any that really have an issue with the App Store fees. The only developers that appear to be jumping up and down about App Store fees are the large companies like Spotify or Epic Games. As a developer, I prefer the "walled garden" approach, as we also have Android apps, and we have to deal with copycat apps all the time on Android because you can "sideload" apps. With iOS, this has only come up once, and Apple quickly took the copycat app down once we complained. With Android, if the copycat app is not being sold through Google Play, good luck getting it removed. For those that think that companies like Spotify should be able to make billions from iOS devices whilst only paying Apple a $99 yearly developer fee, you truly have no idea how much Apple actually invests in iOS. The differences between Google with Android and iOS are night and day.

 

[AlmightyKang]

Sounds like Apple's business is maximising profit not respecting developers or end users.

Maybe both statements can be true at the same time?

Yeah of course that’s true.

But at the same time. One came before the other and their intent and costs and risks were well lined up.

I mean if you read the cigarette packet warnings, smoke anyway, then complain you have lung cancer, you’re a bloody dumbass. That’s pretty much what Spotify are doing here. Except they have a way out which is get big enough to leverage their position. That’s pretending to be a dumbass but really being an *******. And a cheap ******* at that with what they pay their streams out at.

There’s no good guy but everyone likes partisanism because it’s divisive and easy to weaponise. Look at Epic for example.

 

[treacher]

Apple clearly lays out their terms for everyone to read and understand. I find them to be quite trustworthy, and almost all developers seem to be happy with the arrangement.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

You mean the developers who get 70-85% of the revenue generated? Don’t pretend like Apple is getting most of the money the devs are charging.

Literally app signing and account validation for the store. That’s it. To suggest the entire App Store and dev tools are funded by a $99 fee is ridiculous or at worst disingenuous. You don’t even need to pay for a dev account to use the dev tools or build your own apps / learn / test. Just when you’re ready to launch to the store.

Only developers who generate revenue through the App Store are funding the system with revenue sharing. That means MOST apps are paying nothing towards that continued support and development, including Spotify (and anyone else who does not have IAP or charges a fee for the app).

If Apple isn't making enough from the $99 to run an app store, as far as I'm concerned they can shut it down.

Let me install software from any source of MY choosing on MY iPhone (NOT Apple's iPhone) and I won't miss Apple's stupid store AT ALL. They want to whine about costs to run it, they're welcome to turn it off forever.

On the Mac, if I've got a choice of getting an app from Apple's stupid store or directly from the developer, I'm NEVER going to pick the app store version. I should have the same choice on my iPhone.

The constant irreversible 'updates' that are really downgrades are infuriating. "Bug fixes and performance improvements" is NOT acceptable for a release note.

 

[fonzy91]

Amazon takes about 30% of third-party sellers’ revenue, and no multi million company is suing them cause they have to pay to use Amazon’s platform and infrastructure. It makes sense to me.

 

[MilaM]

Playing devil’s advocate, you list products on Amazon, Amazon gets a cut as the vehicle to get the product to the customer.

The difference is, that there are other stores where customers can shop. If I don't agree with Amazon's terms, I can list my product on eBay, etsy, or have my own shop. This puts a limit on what Amazon can charge. It's called competition.

 

[AlmightyKang]

Which I then use at my home, a place which Amazon did not build. The store is separate; I do not continue using my product inside of Amazon. I could also find another store to bring products to my exact same home (not a different home).

I think it’s more like an HOA. Everyone is quite happy with them apart from one Karen who is insistent that all the rules are wrong because she wants to park her F150 on the lawn and put up a confederate flag and will take it to court to get her rights enforced.