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Spotify is a big baby.

They want access to Apple's user base that Apple risked billions setting up, have Apple pay for all of the infrastructure for serving Spotify app and notifications, and they take 100% of the revenue.
Yeah. It'd be totally unfair if Spotify was exempt from sharing their app revenue with Apple.

It'd be totally unfair when other companies like McDonald's, Starbucks, Bank of America, Amazon, Walmart, etc have to give Apple a 15% or 30% cut of their app generated revenue. Wait... 🤔
 
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It makes me wonder if the situation would be different if Apple charged a 10% fee instead of a whopping 30%

Then maybe these big players would have remained in the store... Netflix, Spotify, Epic, Kindle, etc.

10% probably wouldn't matter that much to these giant developers to have all the benefits that the App Store provides... plus Apple would be getting 10% of all those transactions.

Instead... Apple is now getting sued from all sides... and they have to come up special arrangements like "reader apps" and whatnot.

It just might have been better for Apple if they charged a more reasonable rate from the beginning to keep everybody onboard.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Funny thing is, 30% was a great deal, as getting 70% was a pretty great return for a developer when Apple was handling all the processing and getting the exposure. The App Store became successful because of that 30% appeal to the developers, not despite it. The problem is that it was so successful that no one seems to remember how hard it was to make 70% of your sell price before that. If they had started at 10%, the same people would be wanting 0% now.
 
If that were the case the EU would have filed cases against them and won. The EU can file their claims with Ireland, the same country most corporations in the EU use to avoid paying taxes.


They did. Apple have appealed it to death as you would expect.

They are happy to freeload when it suits but heaven forbid someone has a mobile app and doesn't pay them rent.
 
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Running the App Store costs money. It should be easy to quantify how much, make that data auditable, add a decent margin, and bill that cost to Spotify and other large Apps publishers. This is how it works for electricity, telecom services and other utilities. I don't see why it should not work for the App Store.
Why should they? Apple forces Spotify to use their software tools. Apple forces Spotify to distribute their app through Apple's App Store. Apple doesn't do anything else. They don't host Spotify music. They don't collect Spotify fees. The data is minimal -- just enough to download the small app.

Spotify pays their developers fee (we have to assume since they still develop) so that's all they are legally required to do. The fact that Spotify is successful isn't because of Apple (Apple Music is inferior and that's Apple's fault) so Spotify owes Apple nothing.

As we all know, Spotify would be happy NOT being forced to use the App Store, but again, that's Apple trying to be a dictator.
 
Apple has poured their soul into making the highest quality platform experience that is available anywhere, and it's only right that developers pay something to access this hard work.
 
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Preach. The way Spotify completely fleeces musicians is criminal.
Not a single musician have to give their material to Spotify. If they do, they see a benefit in it. Who is fleecing here is Apple because iOS users have no other way to listen to Spotify but via Apple controlled way.
 
It's completely false that Spotify pays Apple nothing. Just like other developers, Spotify pays a yearly fee for the Developer Program, which according to Apple includes "all the tools, resources, and support you need to create and deliver software to over a billion customers around the world on Apple platforms"
…and there’s no justification to pay more in commissions or have less (external) payment methods than Uber or Doordash, Aliexpress, Booking.com, Expedia,or the Amazon Store App.

It‘s just rent-seeking where Apple can most conveniently enforce it - and against what Apple themselves are competing with their own service.
 
why should apple get to have their own music service with much lower cost and price spotify out of the market?
Because they spent a ton of R&D money and took on a lot of risk to establish the iPhone/iOS/App Store and to continue to develop them.

Do Nintendo’s first party games have an advantage because they don’t have to pay to be on the Switch? Of course, and that’s what they deserve for developing the hardware, software, and platform, and doing the marketing for it. All of that costs billions of dollars on this scale.

What I’d like to know is what value the third party storefronts add that they’re worth the same cost, but Apple’s App Store isn’t? Why can Steam take a 30% cut but Apple can’t, when they made the store and the hardware everything is running on.
 
Running the App Store costs money. It should be easy to quantify how much, make that data auditable, add a decent margin, and bill that cost to Spotify and other large Apps publishers. This is how it works for electricity, telecom services and other utilities. I don't see why it should not work for the App Store.
It's Apple that insists on Spotify using their App Store. That's why alternative app stores and side loading are important. If they existed, Spotify would be able to distribute their app themselves (as they do for computers) or use alternative app store (with lower fees). What Apple is doing is a typical racket. They come to Spotify and say: "you are going to use out protection (App Store) and you have to pay us that much". Sooner or later Apple will be charged with RICO Act violations.
 
Spotify is a big baby.

They want access to Apple's user base that Apple risked billions setting up, have Apple pay for all of the infrastructure for serving Spotify app and notifications, and they take 100% of the revenue.

So stupid. Apple deserves their cut.
Apple gets their "cut" by selling the phone. The apps are what give the iPhone ITS value!

Does Apple get a "cut" of every Mac app sold?? I don't understand why the phone has to be different, other than Apple wants it to be. They never had to start taking a cut of any App. It was their free choice but they and some people act as if they have no choice.
 
Yeah. It'd be totally unfair if Spotify was exempt from sharing their app revenue with Apple.

It'd be totally unfair when other companies like McDonald's, Starbucks, Bank of America, Amazon, Walmart, etc have to give Apple a 15% or 30% cut of their app generated revenue. Wait... 🤔
are their primary product offerings digital or physical?

basic question.
 
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Funny thing is, 30% was a great deal, as getting 70% was a pretty great return for a developer when Apple was handling all the processing and getting the exposure. The App Store became successful because of that 30% appeal to the developers, not despite it. The problem is that it was so successful that no one seems to remember how hard it was to make 70% of your sell price before that. If they had started at 10%, the same people would be wanting 0% now.
Your logic might work for indie developers who need some exposure. Big players like Spotify don't need Apple's App Store. No one goes to App Store looking for a music streaming app and says "I've never heard of Spotify, maybe I'll give it a try"! No one. Instead, I'd be just as happy going to www.spotify.com on my iPhone and downloading their app, completely outside the App Store.

The fact that Apple FORCES Spotify to distribute through the App Store is doing Spotify no favors. Spotify can (and should) be able to process their subscriptions through their gateway for 3%, not 30%. Apple is a extortion service, basically -- you'll do it our way or the highway. 30% is no deal for processing a credit card charge. If you think it is, imagine every time you used your CC, the amount charged included an extra 30%. I bet you'd NEVER use that card.
 
No one goes to App Store looking for a music streaming app and says "I've never heard of Spotify, maybe I'll give it a try"! No one.


then Spotify should have no problem selling the membership before the user downloads the app

if the user downloads the app and converts to a paying customer after, apple deserves the cut.
 
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Buy an android then? Nobody is forcing you to buy an iPhone.
That's not how customer protection laws work. if the cost of switching a platform is high, the governments tend to regulate such markets. Compare this to grocery stores. Switching from, say, Wal-Mart to Safeway costs you nothing. Switching from iOS to Android costs a lot. Besides, there are all sorts of things on both platforms that you might have preferences for or dependencies on. Due to the nature of the service, most people have just one phone. So, once you get the phone, the platform provider has undue power over you (with grocery shopping, one can buy apples in Wal-Mart and pears in the Safeway). That's why the government may and should have proper regulations to ensure the customers do not get abused. That's what you want as a customer. As AAPL shareholder you may want something else but that's exactly why Apple must be regulated.
 
Did they not do that on the Mac as well?
Mac started open. Closing an open system would destroy major businesses that relied on the open system.

It's pretty odd that companies before praised Apple's App Store during the early days of the App Store and suddenly changed their minds, despite the fact that Apple has been more lenient on their policies since inception.
 
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are their primary product offerings digital or physical?

basic question.
You know the answer, and why does it matter what format the product is in? Every analogy I've read compares the App Store to a real store. If Apple thinks Spotify should pay more because they're successful, then so should Amazon, Walmart, etc. pay for all the sales they generate in their iPhone and iPad apps. Absolutely zero difference in principle.
 
then Spotify should have no problem selling the membership before the user downloads the app

if the user downloads the app and converts to a paying customer after, apple deserves the cut.
What kind of pretzel logic is that? You download the app so that you CAN be a paying customer. The fact I have to get it from the App Store has nothing to do with my decision to be a paying customer. It's the ONLY place I can get the app. Sounds more like extortion than free commerce. If I had a choice where to get the app and chose the App Store for whatever reason, then MAYBE you could defend Apple wanting some of that action, but since there is no other place to get the app because of Apple's own rules, Apple either needs to change their terms or shut up.
 
Apple is very open to choice and offers the Safari web browser as an alternative to the App Store. I think this is fair and many developers have opted for it.
 
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Mac started open. Closing an open system would destroy major businesses that relied on the open system.

It's pretty odd that companies before praised Apple's App Store during the early days of the App Store and suddenly changed their minds, despite the fact that Apple has been more lenient on their policies since inception.
Yes! I was not advocating closing the Mac, silly!

My only point was that the iPhone doesn't have to be closed. If it were open from the beginning, we'd think it would be just as crazy to close it as it would be to close the Mac.
 
"includes" is what Apple provides for the program. $99 is not how much it costs to cover those expenses. Spotify submitted 40+ updates last year. App Store reviewer makes, what? $20/hr? one submission is about 30 min work? 20 hours x $20 = $400. Fine make it 5 hours. 5 hours x $20 = $100. Then there's server costs and a bunch of other things.

$99/year is practically nothing. if you're going to say Apple is lying over a technicality, then that's a pretty weak argument.
Charge more then?
 
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