Apple Says Third-Generation Keyboards Exclusive to 2018 MacBook Pro

[TTTedP]

Can someone who repaired it under the program finally pop off a key to check what changed?

Everybody is still assuming left and right, of course, we won't get the same keyboard, but we still do not know anything about the repaired keyboards even though the program has been around for a while.

I will do just that, but I couldn't take my MB just yet. I'm going next week. But if somebody just finally took a photo of it, it could clear up a lot of things.

I had my 2016 repaired and they did a whole new bottom case. I think they put on a 2017 2nd gen because the keys are quieter.

*edit, just noticed that my control and option keys are different so they def. used a 2017 keyboard (which is really a full bottom case) on my 2016 repair.

 

[Tubamajuba]

Lol. Why do you think it makes more sense for an electronic part not to work and for a mechanical part to work after six years? That is pretty much the opposite reality of manufacturing in general.

It's because I'm pretty sure the problem with the ethernet port is the pins not quite making contact anymore- therefore making it more of a mechanical issue. I should have specified. Regardless, keyboards are very durable for mechanical items. Well, most of them.

 

[jgbr]

well from the ifixit tear down it looks like 2017 is what 2016/2017 users are stuck with.

 

[markedlymac]

well from the ifixit tear down it looks like 2017 is what 2016/2017 users are stuck with.

Can you link to what you're claiming?

 

[jgbr]

Can you link to what you're claiming?

Read macrumors homepage on ifixit tear down

 

[randyhudson]

The 2018 keyboard was patented by Apple all the way back in September of 2016. The have know about the problem for a long time. Curiously, the patent mentions avoiding contaminant ingress, rather than noise reduction. Strange that they are not marketing the benefits of what they considered to be a novel invention.

 

[KiDo]

"It wouldn't really make sense for Apple to replace keyboards with ones that are just as prone to break again, especially if the third-generation keyboards offer a fix."

Why not? They did exactly the same with all other repair programmes afaik. My 2012 MBP got the same faulty logic board installed, with no fixes whatsover. Of course this resulted in the same gpu issues as before, only of course outside of the time limit of the repair programme and well at the end of life of said device.

 

[CWallace]

Curiously, the patent mentions avoiding contaminant ingress, rather than noise reduction. Strange that they are not marketing the benefits of what they considered to be a novel invention.

That they are currently facing multiple class action lawsuits would be a good reason not to make any mention of it being specifically, or even anecdotally, for that purpose.

well from the ifixit tear down it looks like 2017 is what 2016/2017 users are stuck with.

Based on the teardown noting that Apple thinned the upper case to allow for the thicker battery pack to fit, it sounds very much like the 2018 chassis is identical to the 2016 and 2017 one with the exception the upper case is machined a bit thinner. So that should allow for a 2018 upper case to mate with a 2016 / 2017 lower case.

 

[Val-kyrie]

And here's the gigantic logical flaw for both the iPhone 6 case AND the 2nd gen butterfly keyboard: a statistical increase doesn't actually mean the design is deficient due to the fact that the size of the increase can still be well within industry standards. Was the iPhone 6 case more susceptible to bending than the 5s? Yes. Did that increase in susceptibility mean that there was a design flaw? No. Both the 6 and 6 Plus had three point bend ratings that were within the industry standard at the time. IMO, this is also the most likely scenario for the 2nd gen butterfly keyboard as well. Number of keyboard related repairs may be up, but overall it's still well within industry standards.

I will grant you that an increase in repairs does not necessitate a design flaw; however, the flaw was pointed out and later corrected by Apple. Unfortunately the bend tests you reference only test bending when the phone is cool; the problem became more acute with the heating and cooling of the phone which caused the case to warp due to the internal design. The phone ran too hot.

Worse--a point you don't address--was Apple's lie. They denied the 6 (Plus) was more likely to bend than the 5S when they knew the opposite to be true. Hence my attitude of skepticism with this (and most) companies.

We may disagree about whether the design is flawed but Apple forfeited any benefit of the doubt from me with their lie.

 

[Mainsail]

Faulty logic. Intel changed the design of the 8th generation i5/i7 vs. the 7th generation i5/i7 AND the 8th generation performs better, so that must mean the 7th generation was a defective design and everyone can sue?

Well, if the these processors stopped working and rendered the computers useless then yes they were a defective design. Come on now, there is no way these keyboard failures were just a few random manufacturing defects. Apple has 3 iterations of the keyboard to try to fix it. They have a quality program that offers replacements over 4 years. They have implemented a new membrane design to prevent dust from rendering the laptops useless. Apple is subject to multiple class action law suits. And, yes, reasonably consumers would believe that their laptops keyboard will not fail Multiple times requiring $700 lower case replacements. That’s a fair reason to sue if the company doesn’t make it right. Face it....it was a crappy design, and Apple is getting what it deserves. Hopefully, they will learn a lesson from all of this and stop sacrificing performance and reliability for a millimeter of thinness.

 

[Sevendaymelee]

Just go back to the 2015 MBP keyboard and admit defeat.

 

[sammy2066]

Yea... I hear you. Those are fair points. I’m just leary at people subscribing dishonesty or deception to Apple. They seem to be trying. But I get the frustration of the uncertainty. And you are right... I forget that people in other countries don’t have it as easy...
[doublepost=1531761762][/doublepost]

Really? So any changes they made to the chassis were intended and for the sole purpose of not allowing newly designed components to fit in an old model? You really feel that’s an accurate statement!

Not saying that was the sole motivation, but certainly one of the motivations.

 

[Bacillus]

IMHO Jony Ive should have no further influence on Mac hardware design.

Let him do the packaging in some remote location. Prefereably with an electronic applause generator, to still his appetite for recognition.
And the inevitable memorial books at his own cost

 

[markedlymac]

Please let us know how this turns out!

Well this is how it turned out, Apple Store staff treated me like **** today:

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/8zuxyu/apple_has_refused_to_refund_my_defective/

After legal advice from ACCC tomorrow, assuming I'm right (as I say in the reddit post) I'll see if Apple want to actually honour what their Warranty says one last time without me having to file legal action against them with the ACCC for a full refund, and if not, do so.

 

[Val-kyrie]

Well this is how it turned out, Apple Store staff treated me like **** today:

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/8zuxyu/apple_has_refused_to_refund_my_defective/

After legal advice from ACCC tomorrow, assuming I'm right (as I say in the reddit post) I'll see if Apple want to actually honour what their Warranty says one last time without me having to file legal action against them with the ACCC for a full refund, and if not, do so.

I'm not surprised but I am sorry you have to fight for your rights. Unfortunately this is becoming more common.

 

[paulnash]

Ugh.. After 30 years of owning Apple devices I am really starting to hate Apple... If I only knew they were going to launch these models... but I just got a MacBook Pro 2017 from an online retailer four weeks ago and now I am not elegible for an exchange!

I'm with you on that. First Mac was a IIci, have owned pretty much every Apple laptop since then, plus a pile of desktops. MacOS is turning into a bigger and bigger mess, iOS has its own set of kludges. Security consists of demanding passwords every five minutes and forcing a password change at the drop of a hat.

If you find a workable alternative, please let me know, and I'll switch tomorrow. Apple died with Steve Jobs. Jony Ives and Tim Cook are very good in the niches, but neither is capable of replacing Jobs and making sensible high-level desogn decisions.

 

[mrmsquared]

!!! UPDATE !!!

Took my Late 2016 15" MBP in today for the keyboard issue.

Signed a Work Authorization for $895, fully covered by the Service Program, for what was described as "Replace Top Case." The Genius Bar associate said to expect the entire keyboard, touchbar, trackpad and metal casing for the non-display part of the MBP to be replaced. I am thinking they are replacing with the new generation keyboard. Will report back later this week when I receive it back. Got shipped out tonight.

I got my mac back today. The repair summary stated that the 'Top Case and Battery ANSI' was replaced. I confirmed this physically and realized the option key on my mac is now the new option key design (with the old option key character-art; not the 'alt' caption). I verified that the battery was in-fact replaced with a brand-new one (cycle count is only 4, 6897mah though - so it doesn't appear that its the new MacBook Pro 2018 battery).

Alas, however...the keyboard is most-definitely not (no silicone liner) the 2018 keyboard version even though it has different option key designs (see images attached).



Kinda bummed, also kinda can't complain (for now) I have a new top-case, keyboard, and battery - for free-ish.

 

[markedlymac]

!!! UPDATE !!!



I got my mac back today. The repair summary stated that the 'Top Case and Battery ANSI' was replaced. I confirmed this physically and realized the option key on my mac is now the new option key design (with the old option key character-art; not the 'alt' caption). I verified that the battery was in-fact replaced with a brand-new one (cycle count is only 4, 6897mah though - so it doesn't appear that its the new MacBook Pro 2018 battery).

Alas, however...the keyboard is most-definitely not (no silicone liner) the 2018 keyboard version even though it has different option key designs (see images attached).

View attachment 772410View attachment 772411

Kinda bummed, also kinda can't complain (for now) I have a new top-case, keyboard, and battery - for free-ish.

Thank you for sharing that. Did you take the key cap off yourself? (*GASP*) So it looks like your 2016 keyboard was only replaced with a 2017 keyboard, because my untouched 2017 MBP has the alt removed as well (and there's a graphical difference between the 2017 and 2018 symbol. But maybe there's regional differences as well, to add another layer of complexity there?)

In any case: Apple just replaced your defective dust-prone keyboard with another defective dust-prone keyboard.

Which means, Yes you CAN complain!

It does not have to be acceptable to remedy your defective design with the same defective design over and over again, and it's possible that I'm speaking legally here, not just ethically.

So:

- How old is your machine?
- What country are you in?
- Are you with AppleCare?

It's especially worth looking into if you have AppleCare. If your region's AppleCare agreement entitles you to a refund for a major failure, and then your region's consumer laws count this entitlement as an enforceable consumer right (or 'guarantee' or whatever parlance it uses), then you my friend are entitled to get a full refund for the original value of your 2016 Mac from Apple due to major defect. Then after that ordeal, you could buy a 2018 fixed model (or hell, whatever you want, because you owe nothing to Apple given you paid four figures for that laptop in the first place).

As for me, in the next few hours I will contact Apple Chat and give the consultant on the other end the most epic mouthful of legal consumer complaint information that they'll have ever witnessed. (I've typed it up already...)

 

[mrmsquared]

@mindfulmac LOL. Mine is Late 2016, 15", 2.9GHz i7, 16GB, 512GB, 460 Radeon Pro, touchbar. No AppleCare. U.S.

Yes, the option symbol is elongated on this mac and not so on the 2018 version, I needed someone with a 2017 to confirm that...so thank you! So I shall wait and see if this keyboard shuns me back to mactopia and Apple's "Genius" squad.

I'm gonna sit back for now and wait for the class-action's to ramp up. This experience should be fuel to their fire, that was probably slightly put out by Apple's launch of this 'Keyboard Service Program.' For them to know that 2016 keyboards are simply being replaced by also-found-faulty 2017 keyboards...thats more of a bandaid than a true fix....thats golddddddddddddddd - was that me or the keyboarrrrd - ****!

 

[Virinprew]

Fair enough. However once you discover an issue you work to correct it and replace any problem parts with the part which corrects the issue. What you don't do is replace a known issue part with the same known issue part.

Yeah. That’s a bummer. Hopefully they really fix it soon.

 

[kreasonos]

Does anyone wonder if Apple will put this new keyboard in the upcoming soon-to-be-released Macbook Air replacement?

 

[PickUrPoison]

Does anyone wonder if Apple will put this new keyboard in the upcoming soon-to-be-released Macbook Air replacement?

As long as it’s not significantly more expensive than the older keyboard, I think they’ll use the new keyboard.

If it’s going to add cost and make it even harder to turn a $1,299 13” nTB MBP into a $999 (or lower) MBA replacement, they’ll probably keep the older keyboard. After all, new model doesn’t have to match the thinness of the current MBP.

 

[kreasonos]

As long as it’s not significantly more expensive than the older keyboard, I think they’ll use the new keyboard.

If it’s going to add cost and make it even harder to turn a $1,299 13” nTB MBP into a $999 (or lower) MBA replacement, they’ll probably keep the older keyboard. After all, new model doesn’t have to match the thinness of the current MBP.

Personally, I'll only buy a mac laptop with the new 3rd gen butterfly keyboard.