Faulty logic. Intel changed the design of the 8th generation i5/i7 vs. the 7th generation i5/i7 AND the 8th generation performs better, so that must mean the 7th generation was a defective design and everyone can sue?
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Apple Says Third-Generation Keyboards Exclusive to 2018 MacBook Pro
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Faulty logic. Intel changed the design of the 8th generation i5/i7 vs. the 7th generation i5/i7 AND the 8th generation performs better, so that must mean the 7th generation was a defective design and everyone can sue?
Fair enough. However once you discover an issue you work to correct it and replace any problem parts with the part which corrects the issue. What you don't do is replace a known issue part with the same known issue part.
What were you guys expecting? Apple only replaces keyboards with the whole bottom case at least since the rMBP. These new MacBooks have a battery with 10% higher capacity, which is glued into the bottom case, so Apple would gift you a new, larger battery when replacing the keys - assuming the battery has the exact same dimensions as the old one. If Apple changed anything in the battery dimensions or changed a mounting point or anything, the new 2018 bottom case with the 3rd gen keyboard simply is not compatible with older MBP internals.
As already mentioned: Apple doesn't need to replace the older cases with newer cases but rather replace the keyboards in the older cases with the newer keyboards (assuming there are no reasons preventing them from doing so).
Can someone who repaired it under the program finally pop off a key to check what changed?
Everybody is still assuming left and right, of course, we won't get the same keyboard, but we still do not know anything about the repaired keyboards even though the program has been around for a while.
I will do just that, but I couldn't take my MB just yet. I'm going next week. But if somebody just finally took a photo of it, it could clear up a lot of things.
Everybody is still assuming left and right, of course, we won't get the same keyboard, but we still do not know anything about the repaired keyboards even though the program has been around for a while.
I will do just that, but I couldn't take my MB just yet. I'm going next week. But if somebody just finally took a photo of it, it could clear up a lot of things.
Comments like this one....shakes head....
This is why you get so screwed up in the states, here in Europe if I can prove it's a manufacturing blunder I get a new machine or my money back.
You totally got it backwards
I absolutely agree.Comments like this one....shakes head....
This is why you get so screwed up in the states, here in Europe if I can prove it's a manufacturing blunder I get a new machine or my money back.
You totally got it backwards
You also pay a lot more over one Europe. I’ll take just getting it fixed if there is a manufacturing defect rather than having to pay more money so I get a new machine on the off chance there is a manufacturing defect with it.Comments like this one....shakes head....
This is why you get so screwed up in the states, here in Europe if I can prove it's a manufacturing blunder I get a new machine or my money back.
You totally got it backwards
Yes we pay more but not because Apple gets most the money, taxes in the US for instance are lower and NOT included in the price you see on Apple's website, there are more reasons.
Yea... I hear you. Those are fair points. I’m just leary at people subscribing dishonesty or deception to Apple. They seem to be trying. But I get the frustration of the uncertainty. And you are right... I forget that people in other countries don’t have it as easy...
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Really? So any changes they made to the chassis were intended and for the sole purpose of not allowing newly designed components to fit in an old model? You really feel that’s an accurate statement!
Just as an FYI, this CPU is the revision of the same die. The /3rd4th generation which maybe announced or arrive in a matter of months will be revision 4. A 10nm transition is unlikely to occur until 2020.
I am slightly amused at the idea of it being fixed. If it is dirt getting stuck in the keyboard than the screen is designed to protect it from that, However, that does not mean the problem has gone away with how the keyboard is engineered.
I am slightly amused at the idea of it being fixed. If it is dirt getting stuck in the keyboard than the screen is designed to protect it from that, However, that does not mean the problem has gone away with how the keyboard is engineered.
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Sure, something that happens only a single time in the practical life of laptop (six to eight years) is exactly the same as something that happens ten times over the same time period.
Can you corroborate this? This is the first time I heard that the replacement parts failed much faster (about 10x faster according to your example) than the original part lasted.
It would be my understanding that they don't acknowledge a systematic problem until they have found a solution. Point being, for them to acknowledge something they must have understood what exactly went wrong. And once you know this, you can apply a solution to it.
The only reason why a replacement part would fail 10x faster is if the failure mode is purely age-driven, ie, all the parts were produced around the same time and regardless of usage they start to fail after certain amount of time as passed.
They haven’t replaced keyboards without cases for at least 5 years now. Don’t know if the keyboards are glued to the case or anything but they don’t even put in single missing keys (which you get on eBay for a few bucks and are put in easily) without changing the whole case.
He might design it or his team/peers, what they don't do is engineering, I don't get it people don't see this.
That means 2016/2017 owners are basically stuck with a lemon. Nobody in the know is going to buy these laptops from them.
Maybe Apple will eventually modify the 2017 keyboard with the silicone enhancements.
Maybe Apple will eventually modify the 2017 keyboard with the silicone enhancements.
Comments like this one....shakes head....
This is why you get so screwed up in the states, here in Europe if I can prove it's a manufacturing blunder I get a new machine or my money back.
You totally got it backwards
Fair enough, but how easy, how quick, and how economically feasible is proving that the manufacturer's design or manufacturing was defective? I hate the U.S. class action movement, but I will say that it makes claims like that possible compared to leaving individual consumers to their own solutions.
I am always so confused by the intel roadmap. Is there some sort of Infograph to keep up?
The iPhone 6 “bendgate” was really ridiculous. People that stick their phones in the back pocket are idiots. IIRC this happened, only the Plus models were prone to this. My iPhone 6 is still in mint condition in its original box.
This keyboard issue on the other hand is a serious problem. We’re talking about $2-4.5k machines after tax not hundreds of dollars. It is absurd that Apple can not properly fix this issue. It is much more expensive to replace faulty GPUs, heat sinks, etc since they involve a new logic board design. A logic board swap is already the entire computer really. We’ll see what happens.
This keyboard issue on the other hand is a serious problem. We’re talking about $2-4.5k machines after tax not hundreds of dollars. It is absurd that Apple can not properly fix this issue. It is much more expensive to replace faulty GPUs, heat sinks, etc since they involve a new logic board design. A logic board swap is already the entire computer really. We’ll see what happens.
This is a silly discussion. Why is everyone just assuming that the new keyboard will actually WORK as a replacement for the older keyboards? You do realize that they are different designs, right? The tolerances on these Macbook Pros are extremely small. If they are adding a thin layer, then may have had to change the design slightly to compensate, which means there's not enough room and/or the new keyboards aren't compatible.
This is like having a door handle on my 2009 Ford Escape break, and asking why they can't just replace it with the 2018 door handles because they seem to be a better design. "Um...because they don't fit, perhaps?"
This is like having a door handle on my 2009 Ford Escape break, and asking why they can't just replace it with the 2018 door handles because they seem to be a better design. "Um...because they don't fit, perhaps?"
The dimensions of the machines have no changed. So it has to be a deeper internal change to etch out more than an extra 1mm or so. This returns to the key question of the layer being a patch to a problem or actually a solution. A patch being the problem still exists due to the small travel etc and a solution being that it was purely accumulation of rubbish in the keys. If it was just dust, then surely most users with problems could clear it themselves. Also if dust etc, its costing Apple a fortune in HR and repair times just for defence which brings us full circle to a flawed design.
Personally my keyboard performs well. I haven’t really had any trouble with it. The only abnormality is that several keys around the center of the keyboard feel “sticky” soon after the discrete GPU is working hard and the CPU is under load. Soon after the work is finished, usually rendering video, the keys all perform normally. I never have repeating keys or any sort of missed input.
It makes sense since these keys are directly above the CPU/GPU area on the logic board. Since I’m usually not typing documents while I’m working with video, it’s not really an inconvenience for me and is the reason why I haven’t requested any service. I would hate to replace my 2016 keyboard to get a 2017 replacement that actually has problems.
I guess I will wait longer to see what happens. Perhaps after supplies are exhausted, they will replace 2016s with whatever MBP is on the market at that time. My AppleCare lasts until 12/19 and the keyboard warranty until 12/20. That is long enough and by then stock of 2017 top cases should be depleted.
In fact I would prefer the 2017-present design with the control and option symbols that look better along with the command symbol.
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The only change is the increased battery capacity. This may affect the layout. I would expect the logic board design to be very much the same since the 2018s are still part of the 4th generation. It would be a different story if the 2018 were a new design with a totally new chassis.
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The worst problems are definitely due to dust and debris. Those that eat while using these machines or leave them open on a desk for long periods of time are more likely to have problems than those who don’t. Apple leadership probably wouldn’t encounter problems since they probably are always using almost brand new machines and prototypes. They most likely won’t be using the same notebook for a year much less a couple of years.
It makes sense since these keys are directly above the CPU/GPU area on the logic board. Since I’m usually not typing documents while I’m working with video, it’s not really an inconvenience for me and is the reason why I haven’t requested any service. I would hate to replace my 2016 keyboard to get a 2017 replacement that actually has problems.
I guess I will wait longer to see what happens. Perhaps after supplies are exhausted, they will replace 2016s with whatever MBP is on the market at that time. My AppleCare lasts until 12/19 and the keyboard warranty until 12/20. That is long enough and by then stock of 2017 top cases should be depleted.
In fact I would prefer the 2017-present design with the control and option symbols that look better along with the command symbol.
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The only change is the increased battery capacity. This may affect the layout. I would expect the logic board design to be very much the same since the 2018s are still part of the 4th generation. It would be a different story if the 2018 were a new design with a totally new chassis.
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The worst problems are definitely due to dust and debris. Those that eat while using these machines or leave them open on a desk for long periods of time are more likely to have problems than those who don’t. Apple leadership probably wouldn’t encounter problems since they probably are always using almost brand new machines and prototypes. They most likely won’t be using the same notebook for a year much less a couple of years.
Since 2016, a keyboard replacement requires the replacement of the entire upper case. The battery packs are glued to the underside of the keyboard, as well as the underside of the upper case, so you cannot remove just the keyboard.
Are people's self-worth so tied up in their computers that someone calling it a lemon is going to cause some great offense? I have a 2016 and have shed no tears over such "offense". Get a grip. Besides, he's just calling a spade a spade.
If 2009 Ford Escapes were known to have door handles that frequently break compared to older models, I'd certainly expect that they replace it with one that doesn't break. Or are you advocating for the GM model, where even though the company knows a part is faulty, they don't say anything or fix it and then results in accidents and the deaths of several people?
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