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Yeah, there was no legitimate way because Apple artificially locked down the phone. It wasn’t like the first iPhone couldn’t run other software. It was jailbroken in no time and developers quickly proved what was possible with 3rd party apps. You could even argue that the success of the early jailbreak apps is part of what prompted Apple to allow 3rd party apps. Prior to iOS 2 and the App Store, Jobs was out there insisting that web apps were great and would be all people would ever need on the iPhone.
So company creates phone , company builds software. How open and robust was the blackberry software market? Did they charge fees to third party developers. Let’s have free markets and let markets decide, or do we not believe in competition anymore?

as Apple sales continue to fall(LOL) the market is clearly deciding to go with android
 
Yeah, there was no legitimate way because Apple artificially locked down the phone. It wasn’t like the first iPhone couldn’t run other software. It was jailbroken in no time and developers quickly proved what was possible with 3rd party apps. You could even argue that the success of the early jailbreak apps is part of what prompted Apple to allow 3rd party apps. Prior to iOS 2 and the App Store, Jobs was out there insisting that web apps were great and would be all people would ever need on the iPhone.

It's better than that - prior to the App store, the members of Apple's board who were members of Google's management (weird to think back to that being a thing, huh?) were also very gung-ho on webapps, until it became apparent that Google could do web apps better than anyone else, and web apps had zero platform lockin for Apple.

i.e. if everyone's making web apps, all Google had to make for Android was a browser engine.
 
Yes, if they own the platform, and the platform constitutes a market in itself (which is what regulators around the world are saying) when they created the ability for themselves to have a business selling apps to iPhone users, they should have done so with a mechanism that lets competing businesses sell apps to iPhone users (or at least not created things such that competitors were actively prevented from competing with them).
Is the market the individual brand or the smartphone industry? I personally would like to shop on Amazon but allow me to get redirected to other stores to actually purchase the product. Stop the Amazon tax. Start a fair competition coalition now!
 
Google: politized search results
Twitter: Stifling speech along political lines
YouTube: stifling speech along political lines
Facebook: Fact Checking along political lines
Senate...BORING

Apple...runs an App Store on the platform it built
Senate - lets get in on this.

Apples mistake is that they are big and powerful and have not been political enough. Politicians are just doing the normal gangster things....”Nice business you have there....”. Apple will hire lobbyists and start giving money to politicans so the politicians get a piece of the action and they will be satisfied.
 
Yeah, there was no legitimate way because Apple artificially locked down the phone. It wasn’t like the first iPhone couldn’t run other software. It was jailbroken in no time and developers quickly proved what was possible with 3rd party apps. You could even argue that the success of the early jailbreak apps is part of what prompted Apple to allow 3rd party apps. Prior to iOS 2 and the App Store, Jobs was out there insisting that web apps were great and would be all people would ever need on the iPhone.
Apples product, apples specifications. Customers are free to choose android, windows phone, blackberry, Facebook phone, etc. the market will decide!
 
Sorry, you are wrong. The iPhone as first released envisioned web apps as the vehicle for apps. Remember that Apple pioneered the market, and short of one firm selling smart phones, the market was fairly small. This proved ineffective and various versions of iOS enhanced the experience and met, sometimes led, sometimes followed competition from android.
The statement about app distribution, if you are honest, is that it created an electronic marketplace as opposed to buying cd with software installers in boxes from brick and mortar or via mail, some downloads were also available from independent developers. Distribution costs for the software were quite high

So company creates phone , company builds software. How open and robust was the blackberry software market? Did they charge fees to third party developers. Let’s have free markets and let markets decide, or do we not believe in competition anymore?

as Apple sales continue to fall(LOL) the market is clearly deciding to go with android
It really doesn’t matter how much better than the old way of doing things Apple’s App Store is. That’s not the issue. The issue is that Apple locked down the phone so that no software can be installed initially. Then, they decided to reverse course and allow software but only if you go through their App Store where they get to take a cut.

I’m not saying the App Store is bad. I think it’s good and has benefitted developers. That doesn’t make it not anticompetitive. To go back to your brick and mortar analogy, I could go to many different retailers (Best Buy, Circuit City, Micro Center, etc.) and buy the same piece of software. Maybe somewhere would have it on sale and I would get a discount. The App Store is like the US government passing a law that says that only Best Buy is allowed to sell software now. That would have been decried as anticompetitive 20 years ago (and rightfully so). The App Store is the modern day version of that scenario. Doesn’t matter if it’s million times better than what came before. Apple is forcing all developers and all customers to go through its App Store to get software and collecting a cut in the process.
 
Google: politized search results
Twitter: Stifling speech along political lines
YouTube: stifling speech along political lines
Facebook: Fact Checking along political lines
Senate...BORING

Apple...runs an App Store on the platform it built
Senate - lets get in on this.

Apples mistake is that they are big and powerful and have not been political enough. Politicians are just doing the normal gangster things....”Nice business you have there....”. Apple will hire lobbyists and start giving money to politicans so the politicians get a piece of the action and they will be satisfied.
Google: filtering out lies and deceit
Twitter: filtering out lies and deceit
YouTube: filtering out lies and deceit
Facebook: filtering out lies and deceit
 
Yes, if they own the platform, and the platform constitutes a market in itself (which is what regulators around the world are saying) when they created the ability for themselves to have a business selling apps to iPhone users, they should have done so with a mechanism that lets competing businesses sell apps to iPhone users (or at least not created things such that competitors were actively prevented from competing with them).
Those regulators have their own interests in making those statements. I'll wait to hear what the courts say, particularly around how the platform became a unique "market". Considering I can walk into any Verizon or AT&T store and choose from a variety of smart phones by different manufacturers, I find that position disingenuous at best. I find the government taking control of a product away from the company that designs and produces it very troubling.
 
No, they are talking about the fact that Apple's primary assertion, is that before they made their App Stores, all software was boxed retail brick & mortar software, and they somehow made things cheaper for developers.

This is untrue. Both in terms of the fact that the vast majority of software for Apple platforms was already being sold digitally before Apple created their app store, and in terms of the fact that non-Apple digital sales were much, much cheaper for developers than Apple's system.

To argue that because there was no sales for apps at all on iOS prior to the app store, that somehow makes Apple's disinformation true, is nonsense.
The primary way to purchase software prior to the iPhone was indeed buying physical software. No one (including Apple) is claiming digital software distribution didn’t exist, but they ARE saying that it was pretty irrelevant AND not very convenient. And it wasn’t. If the software you wanted was sold digitally you would first go to the companies site THEN you’d be redirected to the payment companies site (Kagi, et al). If you were lucky MAYBE you bought using that site before and had bothered to save your info, but probably not, so you had to put all your information in. Then you’d have to wait for the software key to be emailed to you, which if you were lucky took a few minutes, but could take hours or even more than a day depending. Comparing the convenience the App Store offered to the then state of digital distribution is like comparing cars to covered wagons.
 
Apples product, apples specifications. Customers are free to choose android, windows phone, blackberry, Facebook phone, etc. the market will decide!
Nope, regulators world-wide are being very consistent on this - Android and iOS are not consumer-equivalent products that people can switch between. There is no "smartphone" market. They are each separate, self-contained markets for regulatory purposes, and the companies that own them are monopolists, who are not allowed to use their ownership of the markets to protect the businesses they conduct within those markets from external competition.

The "go to Android if you don't like it" argument has been clearly ruled out where regulators have expressed opinions on this.

What the Spotify case in particular is showing, is that Apple will not be able to continue to maintain an exclusive app store, with an exclusive payment system, because the payment system is a separate business that Apple operates. What regulators seem to be angling towards is that the way iOS was set up, was probably illegal from the start, and it's just taken this much time for it to become apparent what the consequences of that were.
 
The App Store is like the US government passing a law that says that only Best Buy is allowed to sell software now. That would have been decried as anticompetitive 20 years ago (and rightfully so). The App Store is the modern day version of that scenario. Doesn’t matter if it’s million times better than what came before. Apple is forcing all developers and all customers to go through its App Store to get software and collecting a cut in the process.
Not at all the same. Apple has created a gateway to its product (which it never had to do in the first place) and charging for using that gateway. It's not trying to control or impact any other company's product. And the only way the government would be involved is to force Apple to give up control of a product it created. That's a frightening prospect, because who will be next?
 
Those regulators have their own interests in making those statements. I'll wait to hear what the courts say, particularly around how the platform became a unique "market". Considering I can walk into any Verizon or AT&T store and choose from a variety of smart phones by different manufacturers, I find that position disingenuous at best. I find the government taking control of a product away from the company that designs and produces it very troubling.
But governments take control away from the designers of everything you use.

Food safety standards, fire regulations for children's clothing, accessibility regulations for urban architecture. What's happening to Apple is no different, and no less loudly complained about by them, than any regulation any government has ever applied to a business.
 
Addressing final concerns for Spotify, Apple says that despite what the music streaming giant said during the hearing, it does not prohibit developers from informing users about the ability to purchase in-app purchases, such as subscriptions, elsewhere, such as on the web.

Yes they do...? Am I missing something?
 
Not at all the same. Apple has created a gateway to its product (which it never had to do in the first place) and charging for using that gateway. It's not trying to control or impact any other company's product. And the only way the government would be involved is to force Apple to give up control of a product it created. That's a frightening prospect, because who will be next?
The gateway service is a separate product / service that Apple sells to developers, which Apple protects from third party competition by its absolute control of the operating system. It's not really a very exotic issue.
 
Tile did sell their products in Apple Stores, and I was genuinely interested in them. Then I read the box, and it said the battery wasn't replaceable, so I put the box down.

Now, to the 30%... That's pretty much the standard across all the app stores. We all know this. Epic and Spotify know this. But who are they to say that 30% is too much? I don't know how much the App Stores cost to run, or how much Apple spends on R&D to improve the SDKs and developer software, or how much the hosting costs or card charges are, but I do know that it's not free. Apple is a business, and is there to make a profit. 30% is not too much, and as they say, most apps pay no commission, and most of the remaining developers can cut theirs to 15%.

Who's to say 30% is too much? Apple won't drop it below the costs of running it, so it's either breaking even or is set above the costs of running it. If they set it at break even now, say 10%, what if the costs are 12% next year? Does Apple have to redo all their contracts to explain that they now need another 2% off their developers? No; they've set it at the right price for them.

What are the costs of running Spotify? Are they making any profit? If so, how dare they! They should reduce their prices so they either break even or lose money. That's essentially the argument over the 30% cut.
I think we can all agree that the costs to run the app store are well below $72 billion, which is what they made in 2020.
 
The thing about trying to rewrite history while those who remember the events are still alive, is they can speak the truth of the story themselves:

So looking at your link provided all I saw was apps developed for the PC. I remember mobile apps only being offered by the cell carriers and if you wanted to get an app elsewhere you had to find some unknown WAP website to download it from and pay some unknown payment processor with your credit card.

Any argument should separate out what each platform is first.

I enjoy the single point of failure for my credit card. If I have my numbers stoked I only have one place to look/change the numbers.
 
So looking at your link provided all I saw was apps developed for the PC.

We first sold software for the Mac solely online also via Kagi in 1995

How closely did you read it? They're nearly all Mac developers. Apple made a big deal about the iPhone being based on OSX, that it was a computer in your pocket, with a proper web browser. Doesn't really work to turn around and then say "but it's a phone not a computer, it's special, the paradigms for the Mac don't count for the iPhone" etc.
 
It really doesn’t matter how much better than the old way of doing things Apple’s App Store is. That’s not the issue. The issue is that Apple locked down the phone so that no software can be installed initially. Then, they decided to reverse course and allow software but only if you go through their App Store where they get to take a cut.

I’m not saying the App Store is bad. I think it’s good and has benefitted developers. That doesn’t make it not anticompetitive. To go back to your brick and mortar analogy, I could go to many different retailers (Best Buy, Circuit City, Micro Center, etc.) and buy the same piece of software. Maybe somewhere would have it on sale and I would get a discount. The App Store is like the US government passing a law that says that only Best Buy is allowed to sell software now. That would have been decried as anticompetitive 20 years ago (and rightfully so). The App Store is the modern day version of that scenario. Doesn’t matter if it’s million times better than what came before. Apple is forcing all developers and all customers to go through its App Store to get software and collecting a cut in the process.
Samsung smart TVs - locked down, LG smart TVs locked down, etc, etc, etc. your statement does not matter, it is Apple's product, if they want to sell it with a locked down ecosystem, they have every right to do that, and no one should care. If you don't want that, buy a competing product (Android?) And your part about taking a cut is ohhhh so wrong. Epic - buy Vbucks on our web site, download our app for free pay Apple $0. Spotify, get a subscription anywhere, download our app and listen to music - pay Apple $0, so where is Apple's cut?

No the misinformation is that apple requires a cut. Apple runs its store like amazon runs its store - with the distinction that you can download from Apple for free, but you can't get a product for free fro Amazon. I don't see Amazon offering to redirect you to alibaba or any other site where you can get the product cheaper. What they both have in common is that they have links to the vendor's web site, you can click and do what you want. Or purchase from Apple or amazon under the agreed to terms. Nothing to see here - move along
 
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