Apple Says Touchscreen Macs 'Not a Particularly Useful or Appropriate Application of Multi-Touch'

[Acceleration Apps]

I find the idea of a touchscreen on a laptop, not particularly useful...to be polite. I am sure there are people who like it. I am not one of them. I don't want to have fingerprints, dirt, etc on the screen. I want it to be as clear as possible without having to clean it 10 times a day. Also, fingers are just too fat to replace a mouse cursor and they block the view.

And I still manage to get my screen dirty probably buying new MBP in December

 

[dilbert99]

I find the idea of a touchscreen on a laptop, not particularly useful...to be polite. I am sure there are people who like it. I am not one of them. I don't want to have fingerprints, dirt, etc on the screen. I want it to be as clear as possible without having to clean it 10 times a day. Also, fingers are just too fat to replace a mouse cursor and they block the view.

My mbp is covered in "fingerprints" that make their way to the screen via the keyboard.
I for one would love to have a touchscreen. Also worth pointing out that with a touch screen you can use a 'pencil' stylus to draw. Also I don't see that many people on here complaining about their iPad or iPhone screens with touch. You just wipe and get on with it.
That reminds me, I better try and dig out a cloth to wipe my mucky laptop screen, its needing a good clean.
[doublepost=1478006342][/doublepost]

I absolutely agree with Jony Ive that a touchscreen laptop or desktop is not a great or particularly useful idea when you have a big, beautiful trackpad like you do on MacBooks and MacBook Pros. This is simply a question of ergonomics. Do I want to be using a touchscreen with my arm extended in front of me? Not really. Touch input is much more comfortable and useful when the positioning of the input device is more-or-less parallel with the floor.

Honestly I am very impressed by Ive's sentiment with respect to finding a balance between the mechanical and the adaptable and think it is a highly reasonable approach.

When you use a touch screen, you don't have to have your arms out in front of you as in stretching.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

Without Ive or Cook, Apple would never have reached the heights it did. But, without Jobs in the mix they fail to deliver. I get the feeling that Cook hasn't really stepped away from his COO role and Ive doesn't have Jobs there reality checking his ideas so that they become refined and brilliant.

There's one problem with that. Cook gave the COO job to Jeff Williams who got promoted to that position. He's now responsible for the supply chain and operations, etc. Cook can't do both jobs, nor can he ever step back down to COO. There's only one way and that is OUT. He needs to be replaced immediately before the damage becomes more widespread.

As long as they don't have a visionary on board, Cook and Ive, even Schiller will go unchecked.

Promoting Jony to Chief Creative Officer is a huge mistake. Apple should've removed Cook right around when Microsoft promoted Nadella to CEO. Apple got out-maneuvered big time.

 

[panjandrum]

This is the same Jony Ive that allowed a touch bar to happen, right? This guy needs to be fired.

The reason why you are so fast at typing is because you almost never have to look down. Your fingers are filled with many mechanoreceptors that detect the spaces between keys and altogether you have a layout of this keyboard mapped in your mind for rapid motor responses. On the touch bar, are a bunch of keys that all lay flat in a bar with no space in between, no click, no touch feedback of any kind. This means that your mind can no longer use the shortcuts allowed by a conventional keyboard. It, ironically enough, is a bar that CANNOT USE TOUCH to be recognized in the brain. Which means you need to look at it to locate a key. Which is useless. At that point it might as well be a touch screen so that you can just look at what you're already looking at.

I think a more appropriate name based on this neurological basis would be "The Look-Downwards Bar".

I think Ive (& crew) might be people who just don't have much in the way of muscle-memory. I too find the idea of the touch-bar to be nothing but a step backwards. Then again I'm perfectly capable of typing on one of those keyboards with completely blank key-caps. To me, anything that reduces consistency and REAL feedback reduces my productivity. I type best on good keyboards. I find trackpads with real, actual, movement better than FFB trackpads. I find buttons that don't change location or function to be better than something like this Look Downwards Bar. I don't mind a feature like the touch bar, just don't *replace* something extremely useful, like keys with a dedicated function and location. And let's face it, the only reason it's even necessary is because they haven't added touch-screens yet for some reason. I'm sure it will be useful for certain things, and I expect hunt-and-peck typists will absolutely love it. For me it will almost certainly be nothing but an annoyance because I want real keys there. (Then again, I'll probably never have one of these anyway due to the MacBookesque keyboard. Reviews are mixed and mostly say it is better than the MacBook keyboard, but it has got to be a *lot* better before I could consider using it. That godawful MacBook keyboard is flat-out the worst keyboard I've ever used.)

 

[cjbryce]

You can just ask Steve Jobs.

Genuinely insightful. I really, really hope its not also prophetic.

 

[CausticSoda]

Alrighty then. Sure, you can have freedom of speech, but it doesn't mean that your words are anything more than a babbling mess that represents the true you.

How's that for free speech?

That's "A OK" with me!

 

[TigerWoodsIV]

Agreed, and you bring up a good point with the whole, using it at a desk when connected to an external display thing. I can't imagine that when most people use their MBP at a desk (and when connected to external displays) that they're going to be using the built-in keyboard. I guess this means there'll soon be a $300 keyboard with touch bar accessory. At that point you would have paid for two touch bars.

Where does it end? I'd be happy with an updated version of the late 2012 Mac Mini.



Totally.

Yeah, I don't foresee that keyboard coming that quickly, just because not many people are in the market for several hundred dollar keyboards. I'm trying to figure out what to do. I'm waiting to hear back about a new job. If I get it and the accompanying raise, maybe I'll treat myself and buy one of these things even though they're so pricey.

 

[darngooddesign]

Tell that to people with Accessibility issues, who focus on touch typing.

Poof - Your keys are gone.

Maybe saying 'Christ' a couple more times will sell your point even more next time.

I will when the person I responded to makes an accurate statement like "they removed they physical function keys" instead of "they removed the function keys". On the topic of accessibility, VoiceOver works better with the touchbar than it ever did with physical keys and low vision users are served by on screen mirroring of the keys.

Your keys are not gone. Press the fn key and poof, your keys are there. They haven't moved and they haven't changed in size.

 

[wesk702]

I do, actually.

To me - what would make a concept like this work - is a keyboard in which each key on the keyboard is an OLED.

When you are in word processing, normal keyboard.

When you are in Pro-Tools, Photoshop, Premiere, Final Cut, etc.. the entire keyboard switches to hotkeys, keyboard shortcuts, etc. Not a strip at the top.

Like This:

Obviously executed better- but you get the idea.

Apple has always, migrated us to newer tech by babysteps. It's almost guaranteed that what your depicting comes to fruition in 3 more generations.

 

[Count Blah]

I will when the person I responded to makes an accurate statement like "they removed they physical function keys" instead of "they removed the function keys". On the topic of accessibility, VoiceOver works better with the touchbar than it ever did with physical keys and low vision users are served by on screen mirroring of the keys.

Your keys are not gone. Press the fn key and poof, your keys are there. They haven't moved and they haven't changed in size.

But they lost their tactile feel.

'Touch typing' is replaced with 'hope typing'.

Open a new app, and the familiar has been replaced with whatever the heck the developer wants.

At that point, it becomes 'guess typing'.

Sorry, but the keys ARE gone, replaced by dynamically changes sensitive areas on a flat, uniform surface.

 

[JorgTheElder]

I've grown sick and tired of the incessant complaining and whining here. Apple's design team has spent thousands of hours designing and testing the Touch Bar. I think they have a little more insight on this than every single person here that has never used it or even seen it.

Get a grip folks. Put on your big boy pants and stop whining. Let's make MacRumor's discussion forums a great place again instead of what it has become.

Dude.. You have the Apple products you own listed in your signature and obviously consider them a status symbol. You do realize that, that immediately makes all of your opinions on all things Apple suspect because your own status and self-worth is tied directly to Apple's, right?
[doublepost=1478071521][/doublepost]

Yes, because since Cook has been in charge Apple's revenue has grown by over 500%. That kind of performance is simply inexcusable. It's a small miracle that he wasn't fired when the company only doubled in size.

So you are a stock holder right? Because that cash came directly out of customer's pockets. As long as you agree that Apple should think mass-market and margins first, you will continue to be happy with Tim's work.
[doublepost=1478072220][/doublepost]

The only thing remotely useful that is usually done on a touchscreen laptop is scrolling and zooming. Maybe selecting an icon is a bit faster. That's about it. The trackpad can do all that without too much hand/wrist movement.

I use the touch screen for many things, like scrolling, zooming, panning, and selecting text, but the number one use is clicking links, and I do that thousands of times a day. Reading and writing documentation, working with emails, and just browsing the web. Touch is a much more natural way to do such things than using a mouse or trackpad. Even better, I can move from my convertible to my wife's iPad to my phone and touch always works. A unifying and consistent method of interaction across all my devices. I will never own a non-touch-enabled device again.
[doublepost=1478072878][/doublepost]

except they've said it for years. Jobs said the same - gorilla arms. get educated.
[doublepost=1477943464][/doublepost]
yes, they're making far too much money for the company and extremely successfully products with millions of very happy customers who vote with their dollars every year. this will not do!

1. The gorilla arms thing is ********. A healthy person can work with their hands out in front of them all day long. How do you thing artists use easels, teachers and business people use whiteboards/chalk boards, craftsmen use tools? Most people that use keyboards all day are just out of touch. (Pun intended.)

2. Many of those "happy" customers are the one here calling them out. Notice the fact that the complaints are coming, in part, from long time Apple fans.
[doublepost=1478073520][/doublepost]

Apple has always, migrated us to newer tech by babysteps. It's almost guaranteed that what your depicting comes to fruition in 3 more generations.

ROFL You call going from multiple current and past generation ports plus magsafe, to only next-gen TB ports in a single go, "baby steps"? I call it a jolting, to-heck-with-you and your accessories, leap.

 

[Bryan Bowler]

Dude.. You have the Apple products you own listed in your signature and obviously consider them a status symbol. You do realize that, that immediately makes all of your opinions on all things Apple suspect because your own status and self-worth is tied directly to Apple's, right?

What on earth are you talking about? Why are you blindly stabbing at people for no reason?

My self-esteem is not tied to the Apple products I use. The Apple products listed in my signature are so others can know which of Apple's products I have experience with. This has been standard protocol in forums for years.

One might suggest that your self-esteem is displayed for all to see in the post you just made, but I won't go there. This forum is for the discussion of Apple-related things, not personal attacks on people.

 

[darngooddesign]

Open a new app, and the familiar has been replaced with whatever the heck the developer wants.

Open new app and the touchbar works like it does for that app; its not like the bar is going to work randomly each time you use it within the same app. You're acting like you have lost the ability to learn new application functions; does this mean you will never buy a new app or upgrade your existing apps and OS because there might be new features you have to learn?

Open a new app, press the fn key and the familiar is there.

But yes, if you require physical function keys you will be unhappy.

 

[moodler]

Apple has always, migrated us to newer tech by babysteps.

I wish. They just switched from USB to USB-c wholesale on their pro machines. They didn't even keep ONE! My portable computer is no longer able to accept even a random USB thumb drive without me hunting around for dongles.

 

[sahnjuro]

10-15 years ago there was a company that developed a touch technology for PCs but then held back because they wanted to protect their lucrative OS and application business. That company is Microsoft.

Apple came in with iphone, iOs and touch interface and changed the industry. Now Apple is resisting converting Mac Os to touch technology because of whatever lame excuse they can find. Instead of being agents of change and innovation, they now fear change and don't want to make iPhone iPads, and iOs less relevant (or protect their fat profit margin like Microsoft used.)

It is a sure sign that they have lost their ways.

Now Apple is what Microsoft was 10 years ago.

In 5-10 years they will become what Microsoft is today.

 

[Tech198]

ok,,not the display but other parts are ok to be 'touched''

 

[Cyberius11]